2012 Arizona Diamondbacks Season Thread - July edition

[AZ Native]

Didja see the look on Gibby's face when Upton stood there taking strike three right down the middle of the plate?

I think he wants him gone as much as we do, despite the FO saying he'll be here for the rest of the season.

For the good of all, let him take his 8 HR's and 43 RBI's (in almost 400 official at-bats this season) UPTOwN -- far away uptown.

Yeah, Gibby's face said it all.

 

[Marklar]

Good day all round with the Giants going down. 3.5 back

 

[DWKB]

Have you noticed that whenever Bloomquist (who has been our primary leadoff hitter) in not in the starting lineup, Parra replaces Young in CF so he can leadoff? I commend Gibson for choosing a pattern and sticking with it.

Both Bloomquist and Parra have done well in the leadoff spot. That's a tough decision. I wonder who has done better in the 8th spot, Parra or Bloomquist.

I believe I noticed this before you and we got into an argument about it when I pointed it out to you.

 

[BC867]

I believe I noticed this before you and we got into an argument about it when I pointed it out to you.

Thanks.

It took a long time, but Gibby has finally settled into more consistent batting orders. I applaud him for that.

 

[devilalum]

Didja see the look on Gibby's face when Upton stood there taking strike three right down the middle of the plate?

I think he wants him gone as much as we do, despite the FO saying he'll be here for the rest of the season.

For the good of all, let him take his 8 HR's and 43 RBI's (in almost 400 official at-bats this season) UPTOwN -- far away uptown.

So is there anybody here still willing to argue that Upton is not a "Huge Disappointment?"

 

[Gaddabout]

So is there anybody here still willing to argue that Upton is not a "Huge Disappointment?"

Have you seen what's available in free agency this off-season? Kubel is probably the 3rd best OF on the list. After Beltran (who the D-Backs can't afford), Swisher is considered a big get, and he's on pace to produce last year's .260/23HR/85RBI year.

Comparatively, Swisher's at .260/14/54 right now, which is production the Yankees get for $10 million. Upton is at .270/8/43 for $6.75 million.

There are no big bats out there ready to go. For what the D-Backs are paying, Upton is something of a bargain. I know it's hard to believe, but numbers are down everywhere.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Have you seen what's available in free agency this off-season? Kubel is probably the 3rd best OF on the list. After Beltran (who the D-Backs can't afford), Swisher is considered a big get, and he's on pace to produce last year's .260/23HR/85RBI year.

Comparatively, Swisher's at .260/14/54 right now, which is production the Yankees get for $10 million. Upton is at .270/8/43 for $6.75 million.

There are no big bats out there ready to go. For what the D-Backs are paying, Upton is something of a bargain. I know it's hard to believe, but numbers are down everywhere.

In those terms - you're right of course Matt... though, I might contend that even at that price, Upton is over paid. However, the issue with Upton really isn't so much about what he makes. It's really all about his continued inability to perform even close to his talent and expectation level. In that context, he could be making $1 million a year and fans would still be pissed off with him...

 

[Gaddabout]

In those terms - you're right of course Matt... though, I might contend that even at that price, Upton is over paid. However, the issue with Upton really isn't so much about what he makes. It's really all about his continued inability to perform even close to his talent and expectation level. In that context, he could be making $1 million a year and fans would still be pissed off with him...

All due respect, that's no logical argument to dump him. You're still getting SOME production, and production that would be somewhat hard to replace. The Yankees will definitely pick up Swisher's $10.25 million option for the same production -- and he's 31 with no further upside.

I'm all for trading Upton for the right trade, but I'm not for trading Upton just because it's aggravating he's not doing more.

 

[82CardsGrad]

All due respect, that's no logical argument to dump him. You're still getting SOME production, and production that would be somewhat hard to replace. The Yankees will definitely pick up Swisher's $10.25 million option for the same production -- and he's 31 with no further upside.

I'm all for trading Upton for the right trade, but I'm not for trading Upton just because it's aggravating he's not doing more.

Oh - no doubt Matt... totally agree. I'd be for dumping his sorry under-performing butt if he were being paid Swishalicious dough... The production we get from for what we pay - yea, it's not aggregious... too much.
Again, it just hurts more when you know the kid is capable of putting up much higher numbers. Seriously, Upton should be at the .285/.290, 25-30 HR's and 90-100 RBI each season... with plenty of seasons coming in well above those numbers.

But, yea... He should only be traded IF the value returned is of the highest quality. Unless of course - we're sitting here several years down the road, and we now have a 31 year old Upton putting up these pathetic numbers... Then - dump him to get CY back after we had dumped his butt years before!!

 

[BC867]

He should only be traded IF the value returned is of the highest quality.

Unless you figure in the human side. Upton was dissed publicly by the D'backs Managing General Partner, as was Drew.

We know that Drew will be gone before next season at the latest. And he has the maturity that Upton lacks.

It seems like we're at the point of no return for Upton. Even if we dump him for medium quality, it will be a plus.

 

[BC867]

The last two games, the example you gave to the board, was a simple platoon split. CY and GP are platooning at CF and WB and RW are platooning at 3B now that Drew is back.

It is game 2 vs. the Dodgers and the left-handed hitting Drew is at SS while the right-handed hitting Bloomquist is on the bench against the Dodgers starting lefty pitcher.

How in the world can you refer to Gibson's haphazard and illogical lineups as a simple platoon?

And, oh yes, Chris Young with his .219 batting average is our leadoff hitter once again. It defies logic!

Does Gibson have dyslexia or attention deficit disorder or both?

 

[CardEd]

CY leading off, eeeeerrrr

 

[Dback Jon]

Seemed to work last two nights

 

[Marklar]

BP show had Bloomquist resting a back muscle twinge...

 

[DWKB]

It is game 2 vs. the Dodgers and the left-handed hitting Drew is at SS while the right-handed hitting Bloomquist is on the bench against the Dodgers starting lefty pitcher.

How in the world can you refer to Gibson's haphazard and illogical lineups as a simple platoon?

And, oh yes, Chris Young with his .219 batting average is our leadoff hitter once again. It defies logic!

Does Gibson have dyslexia or attention deficit disorder or both?

You wanted Drew out of the leadoff position. When CY is playing CF who would you rather have there? Hill maybe? Capuano is a LHP so CY in the lineup makes sense. Against LHP this year he's hitting .286/.375/.506. Not bad for a leadoff man.

Marklar has a good explanation of why Bloomquist was on the bench. This is one of the issues I have regarding day-to-day decision second guessing. Unless you have all of the information you're most likely making a wild guess and taking it as fact.

 

[BC867]

You wanted Drew out of the leadoff position. When CY is playing CF who would you rather have there?

The second best leadoff hitter on the team, Gerardo Parra.

Just when we started to see that as a trend, it became experiment time again 2/3 of the way through the season.

That is my major gripe with Gibby. He doesn't give anything time to gel. Even when it works. Bloomquist or Parra at the leadoff position has been working well.

Young's 1-5 lowered his average to .218.

 

[DWKB]

The second best leadoff hitter on the team, Gerardo Parra.

Just when we started to see that as a trend, it became experiment time again 2/3 of the way through the season.

That is my major gripe with Gibby. He doesn't give anything time to gel. Even when it works. Bloomquist or Parra at the leadoff position has been working well.

Young's 1-5 lowered his average to .218.

It's a LHP and you've got two guys who play CF to choose from, one has hit .286/.375/.506 against LHP and the other has hit .231/.255/.308. Which would you choose?

Judging that decision by Gibson using the results of CY PAs this one game is the worst form of armchair managing. Again, your original quesiton was "How can you refer to Gibsons haphazard and illogical lineups as a simple platoon?" and yet you're arguing AGAINST the platoon. The more you dig your heels in the more confused you're looking.

 

[82CardsGrad]

The second best leadoff hitter on the team, Gerardo Parra.

Just when we started to see that as a trend, it became experiment time again 2/3 of the way through the season.

That is my major gripe with Gibby. He doesn't give anything time to gel. Even when it works. Bloomquist or Parra at the leadoff position has been working well.

Young's 1-5 lowered his average to .218.

Dude - you need to slow down... Capuano is a lefty. CY, for all his warts, hits lefties pretty well and certainly better than Parra. Parra wasn't even in the game last night so why would you bring him up?? Gibby is commited to the lefty/righty platoon model, which, isn't all that rare. And as much as I would like to see CY gone, the fact that Parra struggles against lefties means Gibby is doing the right thing by platooning him with CY...

 

[DWKB]

Dude - you need to slow down... Capuano is a lefty. CY, for all his warts, hits lefties pretty well and certainly better than Parra. Parra wasn't even in the game last night so why would you bring him up?? Gibby is commited to the lefty/righty platoon model, which, isn't all that rare. And as much as I would like to see CY gone, the fact that Parra struggles against lefties means Gibby is doing the right thing by platooning him with CY...

Yeah....this.

 

[BC867]

It's a LHP and you've got two guys who play CF to choose from, one has hit .286/.375/.506 against LHP and the other has hit .231/.255/.308. Which would you choose?

I made my choice when I saw the starting lineup. Stick with the plan to start Parra in the outfield whenever Bloomquist doesn't start, so he can be our backup leadoff hitter.

Chris Young has neither the skills nor the approach to do justice to the leadoff position. And certainly his 1-for-5 last night (lowering his BAvg to .219) didn't change my preference.

Guys, I am a big believer that baseball is an individual sport played within a team concept. And that each position in the batting order fills a role. There is chemistry!

The "close your eyes and swing as hard as you can" approach just doesn't fulfill the leadoff spot. A skilled leadoff hitter not only finds ways to get on base. His ability to take pitches and let his teammates see what the pitcher is throwing makes the rest of the lineup better.

Chris Young certainly does not find ways to get on base. Nor does he make the rest of the lineup better. Watching him bat leadoff last night turned my stomach. It is not the approach that makes a .500 team better, especially with us heading back on the road.

 

[DWKB]

I made my choice when I saw the starting lineup. Stick with the plan to start Parra in the outfield whenever Bloomquist doesn't start, so he can be our backup leadoff hitter.

Chris Young has neither the skills nor the approach to do justice to the leadoff position. And certainly his 1-for-5 last night (lowering his BAvg to .219) didn't change my preference.

Guys, I am a big believer that baseball is an individual sport played within a team concept. And that each position in the batting order fills a role. There is chemistry!

The "close your eyes and swing as hard as you can" approach just doesn't fulfill the leadoff spot. A skilled leadoff hitter not only finds ways to get on base. His ability to take pitches and let his teammates see what the pitcher is throwing makes the rest of the lineup better.

Chris Young certainly does not find ways to get on base. Nor does he make the rest of the lineup better. Watching him bat leadoff last night turned my stomach. It is not the approach that makes a .500 team better, especially with us heading back on the road.

The funny thing is how often your beliefs and the actual ways to win games seem to contradict each other

Parra can't hit LHP and the platoon advantage has WAY more impact on Runs than a batting order does. Like orders of magnitude larger. This has been studied using all the PBP data for decades.

I know you've watched a lot of baseball in your life and I know you like to talk about the sport and what you think wins and loses games, but I don't understand why you aren't studying more into discovering what those things that win and lose ballgames are, you're just making assumption up as you spectate.

 

[Dback Jon]

Second straight game Montero thrown out trying to stretch a single into a double.

I swear the Dbacks have more runners thrown out trying to advance than any other team.

 

[Dback Jon]

Montero did just make up for that by belting a 2-run HR in the 8th.

 

[DWKB]

Young's 1-5 lowered his average to .218.

Example of 1 game analysis. Parra goes 0-5 with 3 K leading off against a RHP he should never be put in either of those situations again obviously. Just look at the results!!

 

[Dback Jon]

Sweep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!