2010 Arizona Cardiinals Pre-Season Roster Predictions: Week 1

Catfish

Registered
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Posts
4,551
Reaction score
64
Whis was probably calling out Herman Johnson to let him know that he thinks that he can prepare better. Past indicators (when he called out Alan Branch) suggest that Whis DOES think he highly of Johnson's ability. I doubt Johnson gets the axe this camp, but his future with the team probably depends on how he reacts to Whisenhunt's direct challenge.

That could make some sense-----at least I certainly hope that is the case. With the edginess and half-nasty mind-set that this team is developing, I would hate to see a youngster like House lay back, play lazy, and try to live off his measurables.
 

joeshmo

Kangol Hat Aficionado
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
17,247
Reaction score
0
Was wondering the same thing. I believe we would have truly heard something of this nature in print from Urban or Somers. Not just Joe.

You think I am just making stuff up?

Wiz stated it in his weekly interview on Doug and Wolf, and Jurecki also brought it up (the guy who broke the 396 pound Lutui story of which Lutui is pissed off at him by the way for that because he got a lot of flack from the fans he did not want). Jurecki talked how Lott was very angry because Big Baby did everything right while Lott had a hold of him this offseason in OTA's. Lott calls all of his players at least once a week to make sure they are staying on track during off times, and Herman during the off time kept telling Lott he was doing great ad following the program to a T. Then he shows up to camp overweight obliterating the work he did during OTA's in a short 6 week time frame between OTA and Training Camp. Lott didn't like his work ethic or the fact that he was lied to. If people don't know yet Lott has a lot to do with who is or isn't in Wiz dog house.

Lastly, we are not going to get a story on every single guy on the 80 man roster. By and large its a none story that just isn't good for print. 90% of the fans could care less if a 5th round rookie who is the 4th OT on the depth chart who everyone already knows has weight issues since the draft and his first training camp comes into camp for a 2nd year in a row very over weight.
 
Last edited:

joeshmo

Kangol Hat Aficionado
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
17,247
Reaction score
0
Johnson is the second team RT and has been DEMOLISHING people in camp.

He is in zero danger of getting cut.

Him running 2nd team doesn't mean a thing at all. Bridges is the first guy off the bench as a swing OT if any of the starters go down. Plus it isn't like there is a lot of competition for his spot with Knips and Pestock.

It is going to be hard to keep 10 OL, something we have never done before.

Brown, Keith, Faneca, Sendlien, Wells, Lutui, Hadnot, Bridges.

If coaches don't like the idea of Hadnot at center then Herman has a very real chance of not making this team giving the 9th OL spot to Claxton. There is only two ways Herman makes this team - Coaches feel Hadnot can also play Center which is in no way a given at this point in time, or one of Wells/Faneca/Lutui is traded or dropped.

We have a lot of depth across this OL and that is a great thing but that also means there is without a doubt going to be one decent backup or guy with potential dropped from this team. There are only 53 spots on the team and the more depth we accumulate we will continue to find ourselves in this situation, a great situation to be in.
 
Last edited:

binkar

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Dec 24, 2002
Posts
2,672
Reaction score
52
Joeshmo is right. Whiz was on 620 and mentioned clearly that Herman is is in danger of not making the team because of his weight. I heard it myself.
 

mrbyte

Be careful what you wish for.
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Posts
649
Reaction score
18
Location
Coventry, England
Thanks Mitch.

Agree with most of it, but there is no way the Cards carry 4 Qbs on the active roster, they will carry 3. And no way with the new offense they only carry 3 RBs, they will carry 4. JMHO.

almost word for word what I was going to say :)

so :yeahthat:
 

Longcolts

Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Posts
1,082
Reaction score
0
You almost never hear any coach say anything like that in public. Well Buddy Ryan maybe. So why haven't more people commented on that radio segment? Seems odd to me that it would go unnoticed.


It might be because it was at like 6:30 am or so on a work day? I just happened to be watching the webcast when Whiz was on. Initially I thought he was talking about Lutui until Wolf made the comment about Whiz talking about Johnson.
 

Longcolts

Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Posts
1,082
Reaction score
0
Joeshmo is right. Whiz was on 620 and mentioned clearly that Herman is is in danger of not making the team because of his weight. I heard it myself.

Thank God! Someone else heard it too. I was beginning to doubt my own hearing! :D
 

Longcolts

Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Posts
1,082
Reaction score
0
Although I just realized, the interview was with Gambo and Ash and not Doug and Wolf.
 

Cardiac

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
12,024
Reaction score
3,172
I'm not great at posting links but this should get you there. Right hand side towards the bottom, look for Weds Aug 4th Ken Whis.. They start talking about Herm at the 8:35 mark, then Gambo (I think) changes the subject but Whis comes back to it about a minute later.

I came away with the impression that this is a shot across HJ's bow (belly) by Whis.

Based on what Joeshmo has posted then we could see HJ cut.

http://ktar.com/index.php?nid=9
 

Duckjake

LEGACY MEMBER
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Jun 10, 2002
Posts
32,190
Reaction score
317
Location
Texas
It might be because it was at like 6:30 am or so on a work day? I just happened to be watching the webcast when Whiz was on. Initially I thought he was talking about Lutui until Wolf made the comment about Whiz talking about Johnson.

That could be a good reason but normally not much gets by the posters here no matter how trivial when it come to the Cards. Would have thought we'd have seen something on it sooner than yesterday. After all Big Baby is a player that, ironically, has generated interest among fans because of his size.
 

Catfish

Registered
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Posts
4,551
Reaction score
64
It just makes me sad to hear that someone with Johnson's measurables is willing to forego the work necessary to get into playing shape, and is too lazy to manage his own football life. He was given so much in the way of size, strength, college program to attend, etc. that to waste all that is just a terrible shame.
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
I think the toughest roster decisions that Whiz and his staff will have to make are:

1. Whether to keep all 4 QBs. Whiz does not take the #3 QB job lightly, especially after he had to use his #3 in his first year in Arizona. This is why he paid Brian St. Pierre $1M per the last two years to be the #3.

If Max Hall wins the #3 job, Whiz knows that if he waives 5th round pick, John Skelton, a player he traded up to get, Skelton will be claimed by another team. Skelton's size and big arm are much to impressive for teams to pass, especially teams that are willing to be patient with him.

If Hall and Skelton are neck and neck for the #3 job, Whiz may hope to squeeze Hall by waivers. But, Hall has been getting some very good press for a UCFA, and teams may be aware of this. Because Hall lacks ideal size, he might be able to clear waivers...the question is, would Whiz be willing to risk it, especially if his gut tells him that Hall is a better fit than Skelton.

What will complicate the 4 QB decision are decisions that might have to be made about injured players. Take LB Gerald Hayes, for example. Will the staff be willing to keep a roster spot for Hayes in the event that he could return to good health and playing shape at some point in the season, maybe after the bye week?

Whiz doesn't like to gamble on roster spots that way.

While it may seem superfluous to keep 4 QBs...I maintain that with so much uncertainty about the QB position, present and future, there will be much consideration about keeping both Hall and Skelton...and it would seem thoroughly unlikely that the staff would be willing to waive one of the veterans.

2. Whether to keep 4 RBs. Most teams keep 3. Last year, Jason Wright was kept because of his STs prowess...and Whiz created a small role for him as a situational RB. This year, does Whiz have the luxury of keeping 4 RBs?

3. Whether to keep C Ben Claxton as the backup center or use Rex Hadnot there in order to keep T Herman Johnson. While Whiz has called Johnson out, as Joe informed us, there's no need for Johnson to be an active player this year, not with Bridges on the roster. But, there's no way Whiz is going to cut a talent like Johnson. Whiz LOVES his depth and Johnson offers great potential and depth.

4. The TE situation. Ben Patrick is supposed be ready for game one. He's in. Stephen Spach is a Whiz favorite, so he's in. But what happens if Anthony Becht remains on the sidelines? Does Whiz keep a roster s[pot for him and go with two TEs the first couple of games? Does this open the door for Dominique Byrd or Jim Dray (if he returns to health)?

Don't be surprised if at some point the Cardinals add a new TE to the mix.

5. The ILB spots. Lenon and Washington are in. Beyond that, who knows? Reggie Walker will earn one of the spots, IMO. The question then becomes, do they keep a spot for Hayes? The other is, they would need another ILB for depth until Hayes comes back. Beisel? Togafau? The UCFA Chris Johnson? Will they look at Mark Washington inside? That would be a bonus if Mark Washington was versatile enough to be a backup inside and outside.

6. The #5 CB. The Cardinals will most likely keep 5 CBs and 4 Ss. The 4 safeties are set. DRC, Toler, McBride and Adams (STs ace) are set. The #5 spot is not. Justin Miller adds avalue on STs...so he has the inside track...but can he be a factor as a backup CB and nickel man?

A CB off the waiver wire...or a trade...may bring the answer here.

So where are the vulnerable spots on this roster?

1. QB. I like what Wolf had to say about Leinart and the QBs in general...he said that "I don't want a QB to merely manage a game, QBs in this league have to make big plays in big games."

2. FB. No proven guy there.

3. TE. A lot of mediocrity and health issues.

4. G. Faneca has to play up to his usual standards and Lutui has to pick up where he left off next year, if the Cardinals have any serious hope of running the ball with consistent success. And, when it comes time to pass protect, Faneca and Lutui have to be better than advertised.

5. NT. As long as Bryan Robinson remains the starter, there's still an issue here. Not that BR stinks...he's just not a dynamic physical presence in the middle.

6. SILB. Thus far the coaches have been raving about Paris Lenon. Will he produce in games?

7. WILB. Washington will have to start right away and he is going to have to learn quickly.

8. RCB. Toler had a good scrimmage, now let's see what he looks like covering the likes of Andre Johnson this week. The depth behind Toler is very questionable.

9. Nickel. Who plays the nickel?
 
Last edited:

Crazy Canuck

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
10,077
Reaction score
0
1. Given the investment in getting Skelton, I believe he is number #3. The chances of losing a UDFA to another team's 53 man roster in the early cuts of the season is extremely slim.

2. Wright = Morey. Our ST specialist. Won't be going anywhere IMO.

3. Hayes can stay on PUP for the first six games of the year, thus saving the roster spot. A decision on dropping someone when he returns is postponed until then.

4. Hadnot's ability to play centre probably seals Claxton's fate. Although, if Wells' loses out to Lutui, he (Wells) could become trade bait.

5. Becht because of back concerns is always handled gingerly leading up to the opening of the season.

6. Would not be surprised if our 5th. CB is not on the roster at this point.
 

Reddog

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Posts
2,807
Reaction score
323
Location
Scottsdale
As tenuous as our QB position is it would not shock me if we grabbed or traded for a QB if one came available vs putting so much stock into developing either of the #3 or #4 on the active roster. Lets face it neither of those guys will help us this season if we have injuries or poor play from #1 & #2. If there was anyone experienced worth having (unlikely) after cuts pick him up cut #3 & #4 and put whichever one clears waivers on the PS. Bulger would be a welcome fit in the mix right now.
 

DoTheDew

Registered
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Posts
2,967
Reaction score
0
I think people are making too much of Skelton being a 5th round pick that we traded a guy who we had soured on in McFadden for. Remember this is the coaching staff which cut 3rd round pick Buster Davis without ever letting him play a regular season game. They aren't afraid to admit a draft mistake, especially outside of the first two rounds. Whis wants to put the roster out that gives the best odds of winning. Not that he doesn't think about the future, but realistically, the odds of Hall or Skelton ever being a QBOF is very slim. It happens, but for every late round gem in Brady, or undrafted gem in Warner, there are a hundred QBs who never make it in the NFL.

If they keep Skelton as the 3rd QB it is because they feel he is the 3rd best QB on the roster and is capable of coming in and helping us. If they don't feel he is capable of that, he will be gone. Same for Hall.
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2002
Posts
13,274
Reaction score
1,134
Location
SE Valley
I think the toughest roster decisions that Whiz and his staff will have to make are:

1. Whether to keep all 4 QBs. Whiz does not take the #3 QB job lightly, especially after he had to use his #3 in his first year in Arizona. This is why he paid Brian St. Pierre $1M per the last two years to be the #3.

If Max Hall wins the #3 job, Whiz knows that if he waives 5th round pick, John Skelton, a player he traded up to get, Skelton will be claimed by another team. Skelton's size and big arm are much to impressive for teams to pass, especially teams that are willing to be patient with him.

If Hall and Skelton are neck and neck for the #3 job, Whiz may hope to squeeze Hall by waivers. But, Hall has been getting some very good press for a UCFA, and teams may be aware of this. Because Hall lacks ideal size, he might be able to clear waivers...the question is, would Whiz be willing to risk it, especially if his gut tells him that Hall is a better fit than Skelton.

What will complicate the 4 QB decision are decisions that might have to be made about injured players. Take LB Gerald Hayes, for example. Will the staff be willing to keep a roster spot for Hayes in the event that he could return to good health and playing shape at some point in the season, maybe after the bye week?

Whiz doesn't like to gamble on roster spots that way.
There's NO WAY the Cardinals keep 4 QB's on the 53 man squad. Period. They simply cannot afford the roster spot. Can someone remember the last time any team carried 4 QB's on the 53 man roster, if one of them was not a special teams player also?

I recall Whisenhunt making a comment last season regarding releasing "good players" . A consequence of improving the depth of your team, and creating competition at all positions is that the organization will be forced to release some decent players; players that ideally you would like to keep and develop. But the reality is you make your choices and retain those players which are going to most benefit the team.

Whisenhunt is man enough to make those tough decisions and live with them.

My guess is that Hall will be waived, with the intent of signing him to the PS.

5. NT. As long as Bryan Robinson remains the starter, there's still an issue here. Not that BR stinks...he's just not a dynamic physical presence in the middle.
I love what B-Rob has given this team. But, my thought here is that not only will Robinson not be the starter opening day, he may not make the team. He was brought back to mentor Dan Williams and to make Watson fight for his job. That being accomplished by the end of training camp may mean that Robinson has fullfilled the role the Cardinals asked him back for; an insurance policy.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,006
Reaction score
26,808
Location
Gilbert, AZ
I think people are making too much of Skelton being a 5th round pick that we traded a guy who we had soured on in McFadden for. Remember this is the coaching staff which cut 3rd round pick Buster Davis without ever letting him play a regular season game. They aren't afraid to admit a draft mistake, especially outside of the first two rounds. Whis wants to put the roster out that gives the best odds of winning. Not that he doesn't think about the future, but realistically, the odds of Hall or Skelton ever being a QBOF is very slim. It happens, but for every late round gem in Brady, or undrafted gem in Warner, there are a hundred QBs who never make it in the NFL.

If they keep Skelton as the 3rd QB it is because they feel he is the 3rd best QB on the roster and is capable of coming in and helping us. If they don't feel he is capable of that, he will be gone. Same for Hall.

I don't believe this is the case. That's not really what a 3rd QB is for. If Skelton remains on the roster as the 3rd QB, it'll be because the team saw enough of him in camp to believe that he can eventually develop into a solid #2 quarterback. Realistically, that's what a 3rd QB is (if he's a draft pick).

If the Cards wanted a #3 who could come in and help the team, they would have re-signed BSP or they'd call up one of the many, many veterans still available. #3 quarterbacks just don't get enough reps in practices to be able to help anyone should they be needed during the season--except maybe opposing defensive backs.

There's NO WAY the Cardinals keep 4 QB's on the 53 man squad. Period. They simply cannot afford the roster spot. Can someone remember the last time any team carried 4 QB's on the 53 man roster, if one of them was not a special teams player also?

I recall Whisenhunt making a comment last season regarding releasing "good players" . A consequence of improving the depth of your team, and creating competition at all positions is that the organization will be forced to release some decent players; players that ideally you would like to keep and develop. But the reality is you make your choices and retain those players which are going to most benefit the team.

Whisenhunt is man enough to make those tough decisions and live with them.

My guess is that Hall will be waived, with the intent of signing him to the PS.

I love what B-Rob has given this team. But, my thought here is that not only will Robinson not be the starter opening day, he may not make the team. He was brought back to mentor Dan Williams and to make Watson fight for his job. That being accomplished by the end of training camp may mean that Robinson has fullfilled the role the Cardinals asked him back for; an insurance policy.

If Hall's waived, he's not coming back on the practice squad. He'll either sign onto some other team's PS or sit by the phone waiting for the Cards to offer him a futures contract this winter. You only have a limited number of spots on your PS and you need those for WRs, OL, DL, and CBs. Whis isn't going to waste a PS spot on a guy who isn't going to get any reps during the year.

Oh, yeah--Bryan Robinson. I expect that he'll maybe make the roster, and if he does that he'll start the season. But it'll be kind of the way that Tim Hightower starts--he'll be there for the first play, but he's not going to see 40% of the total plays in most games.
 
Last edited:

binkar

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Dec 24, 2002
Posts
2,672
Reaction score
52
The Cardinals obviously drafted Skelton with the understanding that he was a huge project. I estimate that they didn't expect him to be sharp and overly impressive in his first training camp. He came from lowly Fordham university. The timing and speed from there to the NFL isn't even close, and timing is more important at QB then any other position. Point is, they drafted Skelton for what he could be 3 years from now, not for what he is now.
 

joeshmo

Kangol Hat Aficionado
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
17,247
Reaction score
0
I think people are making too much of Skelton being a 5th round pick that we traded a guy who we had soured on in McFadden for. Remember this is the coaching staff which cut 3rd round pick Buster Davis without ever letting him play a regular season game.

I don't think Buster Davis is a good example of coaching being willing to get rid of draft picks without a care in the world. Buster was a rare example who decided it was in his best interest to not listen to Lott or Wiz during the offseason. He was a malcontent who argued with the coaches before he even put ink to paper. Buster acted like a Punk and faced the consequences.
 

binkar

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Dec 24, 2002
Posts
2,672
Reaction score
52
I don't think Buster Davis is a good example of coaching being willing to get rid of draft picks without a care in the world. Buster was a rare example who decided it was in his best interest to not listen to Lott or Wiz during the offseason. He was a malcontent who argued with the coaches before he even put ink to paper. Buster acted like a Punk and faced the consequences.

Not to mention how TERRIBLE he looked that preseason. It was some of the worst play I have ever seen from a linebacker at the NFL level.
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2002
Posts
13,274
Reaction score
1,134
Location
SE Valley
If Hall's waived, he's not coming back on the practice squad. He'll either sign onto some other team's PS or sit by the phone waiting for the Cards to offer him a futures contract this winter. You only have a limited number of spots on your PS and you need those for WRs, OL, DL, and CBs. Whis isn't going to waste a PS spot on a guy who isn't going to get any reps during the year.

Oh, yeah--Bryan Robinson. I expect that he'll maybe make the roster, and if he does that he'll start the season. But it'll be kind of the way that Tim Hightower starts--he'll be there for the first play, but he's not going to see 40% of the total plays in most games.
Re: Hall - I guess that depends upon the value that the organization see's in him. Why could another team use one of their limited number of PS spots for Hall but the Card's couldn't? Either they place that value in him or they don't.

Re: B-Rob, it wouldn't surprise me either way. But it depends more upon Watson and Williams than on Robinson.
 

DoTheDew

Registered
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Posts
2,967
Reaction score
0
I don't believe this is the case. That's not really what a 3rd QB is for. If Skelton remains on the roster as the 3rd QB, it'll be because the team saw enough of him in camp to believe that he can eventually develop into a solid #2 quarterback. Realistically, that's what a 3rd QB is (if he's a draft pick).

If the Cards wanted a #3 who could come in and help the team, they would have re-signed BSP or they'd call up one of the many, many veterans still available. #3 quarterbacks just don't get enough reps in practices to be able to help anyone should they be needed during the season--except maybe opposing defensive backs.

Forgot to put the word eventually in there. They aren't going to keep a guy who they don't feel has "it." They obviously felt that way when they drafted him, but seeing a guy first hand in practice can change that. I am almost certain though, that Whis won't hold a roster spot for a purely developmental what if that hasn't shown him anything and create a depth issue at another position when we are still trying to win the division this year. He certainly won't carry 4 Qbs with 2 guys being rookies who don't seem ready to play this season. Not unless we have a number of PUP players, in which case the 4th QB might make it only to be cut mid-season.
 
Last edited:

Crazy Canuck

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
10,077
Reaction score
0
Forgot to put the word eventually in there. They aren't going to keep a guy who they don't feel has "it." They obviously felt that way when they drafted him, but seeing a guy first hand in practice can change that. I am almost certain though, that Whis won't hold a roster spot for a purely developmental what if that hasn't shown him anything and create a depth issue at another position when we are still trying to win the division this year. He certainly won't carry 4 Qbs with 2 guys being rookies who don't seem ready to play this season. Not unless we have a number of PUP players, in which case the 4th QB might make it only to be cut mid-season.

We are going to carry 3 QBs no matter what, and it's irrelevant to the game day roster.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
537,313
Posts
5,269,021
Members
6,275
Latest member
Beagleperson
Top