15 thoughts - draft

Gandhi

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1 - I wrote a column about Jeremyiah Love, so I think I will just post a link to that instead of mentioning more about it here. (https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/10-thoughts-first-round.1265801/)

2 – I expect Carson Beck to start week one.

3 – In my mind, Bisontis completes the offensive line. Sure, it would have been great with a better right tackle, but the good options ran out very quickly. There were probably only two or three viable options after day one, and as I mentioned after day two, when Caleb Tiernan got drafted, it was over. I think Wilkinson was okay in Atlanta last year, so I am not that scared.

4 – The pick of Kaleb Proctor is very interesting to me. In a lot of ways, he plays like Darius Robinson was supposed to, but remember that Robinson went from being a projected mid-round pick before his senior season to skyrocketing into the first round after being moved to an edge role at Missouri. For whatever reason, Cards thought it was a great idea to move him away from his best position (Haason Reddick-style), and he has obviously been a bust on the interior. With Proctor on the roster, do they move Robinson outside? Do they try to salvage their investment by utilizing him to his strengths?

5 – About Beck, I will just copy my text from the mock draft. I know it is cheating since it is not one thought but then let’s say that the decision to copy-paste is the thought:

“With the 64. pick the Arizona Cardinals select

Carson Beck, quarterback, Miami


If we believe that LaFleur will take a lot from McVay’s and Shanahan’s offenses, Beck could be a great scheme fit. Some of the stables of those offenses are play-action, throwing a lot of intermediate distance passes, getting the ball out quickly and playing within structure and in rhythm. Well, last season, Beck had the fastest release among all 67 qualifying P4 quarterbacks, had a nearly 80% completion percentage on play-action passes and were clearly most comfortable making intermediate distance throws. And you can easily see that he is at his best when he plays in rhythm as a game manager. Stylistically, outside of Ty Simpson, Beck is the best QB fit for LaFleur’s expected offense (and that includes Mendoza).

Furthermore, I have seen multiple respectable analysts compare Carson Beck to Matt Schaub. Well, who would be his QB coach with the Cards?

And I get it – we all want to punch Beck. He is arrogant, smug and looks like he could not care any less about anything else than himself. He hangs his teammates out to dry in the media and has body language like everything is against him. However, they loved him in Miami. I don’t know why, but they did. The Cardinals just hired Miami’s runningback coach last season, so they have very close insider knowledge about who Beck is and how to treat him. And if you gave me the option of assembling the perfect quarterback room (and I could choose among any active quarterback in the world) for Carson Beck to come into, it would be him with Jacoby Brissett and Gardner Minshew.

I highly doubt that Beck is a long-term solution. I actually think that the upside with him is zero. He either plays to the same level as last season, or it gets worse. But what’s the alternative if they don’t get Simpson? And even then, Simpson will almost undoubtedly take some time to acclimate to the NFL, whereas Beck could likely step in and execute the offense the day after he was drafted. He is pro ready and he is a proven winner. He could probably get them through next season at around 0.500 or so (I know that is not the actual number, but you get my point), and then they can re-evaluate the QB position again next offseason or the year after. I simply don’t see better options in this situation - if you want to win something this season, that is.”


6 – I was not thrilled about day three. Does it matter? Well, ESPN showed a graphic that 63% of all players last season were drafted on day three or went undrafted, so I would say yes, it does matter.

7 – I am not sure what I think about focusing that much on the offense. On one hand, the defense sucked last season. On the other, you should help your new offensive coach.

8 – Drafting an offensive lineman is rarely a bad idea. I doubt that Jayden Williams has any chance of surpassing the developmental projects already on the roster, but why not give it a shot? Especially when there were only a few other good options.

9 – Reggie Virgil when Joshua Josephs, Keith Abney and Riley Nowakowski were still on the board? Really?!

10 – Karson Sharar is basically 1:1 the same pick as Owen Pappoe (though Pappoe was in the fifth round). Super-athletic special teamer.

11 – Okay, one additional thought on Beck: if you don’t have a franchise quarterback, you are looking for one. That’s just the reality. We all knew that it was not a strong line-up of QB options in this class, but if you want to be somewhat competitive this year, you just need to figure it out. LaFleur has had around four months to come up with a solution, and his evaluation led to Beck. For that reason alone, I have no problem giving Beck a chance.

12 – At least the Rams and Niners did not get better these days.

13 – I thought the last three picks were average at best. I would have used one or two of them to trade up to get a player that is more likely to compete before the talent-well dried out completely (it was a bad draft year, so around the end of round five). Preferably a pass rusher.

14 – Any draft class always open up for teams cutting other players on their roster. Will be very interesting to see who.

15 – Some of you are high on UDFA C Ka’ena Decambra. I know nothing about him, but even though I doubt he has a realistic shot, your optimism is exciting. Thank you for that.
 
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az jam

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Interesting information as usual.
1. & 3. I really am glad that we took Love and improved our OL with Bisontis. These were good picks.
2. I'm fine with the Beck pick especially on day three. However, I don't think he will be the day one starter that will be Brissett. But not for long, it depends on the schedule and how the Cards are doing.
4. I'm not familiar with DT Proctor but several on the Board like him, Robinson has been a bust but maybe this year will do better if he stays healthy.
6. Agree nothing exciting on day 3 but IMO this was not a great draft after day 2 for most team.s Not a lot of talent like last year. I have several friends that are fans of other teams and they felt the same way for their team.
12 - None of the other NFC West teams really did that much in the draft, I think the Crads did better than any of them but of course we picked at the top of each round not at the end.
15- I can't get excited about any UDFA players.

Going to be a very interesting season with the draft and free agency really over. This is the first season in the last 8 years for the Cards that we are gong into training cap without Kyler Murray on the team. (Except we still have his $46 million salary as a cap hit :bang:)

Again I appreciate you thoughts in the draft.
 

JCSunsfan

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On number 11. If you don’t have a franchise QB you have to keep drafting QB’s until you get one. Yes, it will mean passing on other players, in every draft you have to try to find a prospect. There is no success in the NFL without a quality QB.

Thats why I don’t have a problem with the Beck pick. The NFL draft has no guarantees.
 

reebokalone2001

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1 - I wrote a column about Jeremyiah Love, so I think I will just post a link to that instead of mentioning more about it here.

2 – I expect Carson Beck to start week one.

3 – In my mind, Bisontis completes the offensive line. Sure, it would have been great with a better right tackle, but the good options ran out very quickly. There were probably only two or three viable options after day one, and as I mentioned after day two, when Caleb Tiernan got drafted, it was over. I think Wilkinson was okay in Atlanta last year, so I am not that scared.

4 – The pick of Kaleb Proctor is very interesting to me. In a lot of ways, he plays like Darius Robinson was supposed to, but remember that Robinson went from being a projected mid-round pick before his senior season to skyrocketing into the first round after being moved to an edge role at Missouri. For whatever reason, Cards thought it was a great idea to move him away from his best position (Haason Reddick-style), and he has obviously been a bust on the interior. With Proctor on the roster, do they move Robinson outside? Do they try to salvage their investment by utilizing him to his strengths?

5 – About Beck, I will just copy my text from the mock draft. I know it is cheating since it is not one thought but then let’s say that the decision to copy-paste is the thought:

“With the 64. pick the Arizona Cardinals select

Carson Beck, quarterback, Miami


If we believe that LaFleur will take a lot from McVay’s and Shanahan’s offenses, Beck could be a great scheme fit. Some of the stables of those offenses are play-action, throwing a lot of intermediate distance passes, getting the ball out quickly and playing within structure and in rhythm. Well, last season, Beck had the fastest release among all 67 qualifying P4 quarterbacks, had a nearly 80% completion percentage on play-action passes and were clearly most comfortable making intermediate distance throws. And you can easily see that he is at his best when he plays in rhythm as a game manager. Stylistically, outside of Ty Simpson, Beck is the best QB fit for LaFleur’s expected offense (and that includes Mendoza).

Furthermore, I have seen multiple respectable analysts compare Carson Beck to Matt Schaub. Well, who would be his QB coach with the Cards?

And I get it – we all want to punch Beck. He is arrogant, smug and looks like he could not care any less about anything else than himself. He hangs his teammates out to dry in the media and has body language like everything is against him. However, they loved him in Miami. I don’t know why, but they did. The Cardinals just hired Miami’s runningback coach last season, so they have very close insider knowledge about who Beck is and how to treat him. And if you gave me the option of assembling the perfect quarterback room (and I could choose among any active quarterback in the world) for Carson Beck to come into, it would be him with Jacoby Brissett and Gardner Minshew.

I highly doubt that Beck is a long-term solution. I actually think that the upside with him is zero. He either plays to the same level as last season, or it gets worse. But what’s the alternative if they don’t get Simpson? And even then, Simpson will almost undoubtedly take some time to acclimate to the NFL, whereas Beck could likely step in and execute the offense the day after he was drafted. He is pro ready and he is a proven winner. He could probably get them through next season at around 0.500 or so (I know that is not the actual number, but you get my point), and then they can re-evaluate the QB position again next offseason or the year after. I simply don’t see better options in this situation - if you want to win something this season, that is.”


6 – I was not thrilled about day three. Does it matter? Well, ESPN showed a graphic that 63% of all players last season were drafted on day three or went undrafted, so I would say yes, it does matter.

7 – I am not sure what I think about focusing that much on the offense. On one hand, the defense sucked last season. On the other, you should help your new offensive coach.

8 – Drafting an offensive lineman is rarely a bad idea. I doubt that Jayden Williams has any chance of surpassing the developmental projects already on the roster, but why not give it a shot? Especially when there were only a few other good options.

9 – Reggie Virgil when Joshua Josephs, Keith Abney and Riley Nowakowski were still on the board? Really?!

10 – Karson Sharar is basically 1:1 the same pick as Owen Pappoe (though Pappoe was in the fifth round). Super-athletic special teamer.

11 – Okay, one additional thought on Beck: if you don’t have a franchise quarterback, you are looking for one. That’s just the reality. We all knew that it was not a strong line-up of QB options in this class, but if you want to be somewhat competitive this year, you just need to figure it out. LaFleur has had around four months to come up with a solution, and his evaluation led to Beck. For that reason alone, I have no problem giving Beck a chance.

12 – At least the Rams and Niners did not get better these days.

13 – I thought the last three picks were average at best. I would have used one or two of them to trade up to get a player that is more likely to compete before the talent-well dried out completely (it was a bad draft year, so around the end of round five). Preferably a pass rusher.

14 – Any draft class always open up for teams cutting other players on their roster. Will be very interesting to see who.

15 – Some of you are high on UDFA C Ka’ena Decambra. I know nothing about him, but even though I doubt he has a realistic shot, your optimism is exciting. Thank you for that.
Amen to No.9.
 
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Gandhi

Gandhi

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I’ve always believe the current years draft is all about next year except your first and second pick.
I don’t agree with that, Slanidrac. I think that to compete you must find rookies that you can rely on early, simply because other teams do that. I think that rookies have become very, very important, and drafting for the year after is a bad strategy. That’s also why I don’t agree with people arguing that you cannot evaluate a draft class until three years after. That’s not to say that players cannot get better, of course, but I do think you can evaluate it after one year (and right after the draft, but that is only based on your evaluations of the players leading up to the draft).
 
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Gandhi

Gandhi

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2. I'm fine with the Beck pick especially on day three. However, I don't think he will be the day one starter that will be Brissett. But not for long, it depends on the schedule and how the Cards are doing.
I could see Brissett being moved, and I truly think that Beck is ready right away. It will certainly not be too big for him, and he has a ton of experience playing the position on both a physical and mental level. I cannot remember where I heard it, but the point was that whatever system LaFleur wants to install is new to everyone, no matter if you are a veteran or rookie, and I just don’t think that Brissett is that much more ready to adapt than Beck. I see Beck as the ideal bridge QB.

I agree with everything else you point out.
Going to be a very interesting season with the draft and free agency really over.
And isn’t that what this draft was all about? At least it was to me. I actually had a discussion with a friend who said after the first round that the Cards’ process was horrible because the goal was always to win. Well, I would agree with any other team, but I think that I have gotten a slightly different perspective after watching my team suck over and over for what seems like an eternity, and then have a depressing free agency-campaign a month ago.

I badly want to win, but what are the odds of that happening? At least if you talk about contending for titles. So, how do I get enjoyment in-season? Well, to me Love is a wonderful start, especially since it was followed up by strengthening the offensive line and then selecting a new rookie quarterback. Maybe all of it will fail horribly, but at least there is a chance that it will be interesting and watchable if Beck starts. With Brissett, I had absolutely zero hope.
 

az jam

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I disagree with you on your comment: "With Brissett, I had absolutely zero hope." Being a season ticket holder I was at every game last year and it was so depressing watching the offense under Kyler. Once Brissett started the entire offense picked up and the passing game was fun to watch. Michael Wilson was finally used and became actually an excellent receiver and McBride started scoring TDs. Unfortunately the defense was terrible and the the offense lost most of the offensive line to injures along with all the backs and they kept losing games.
But Brissett hung in there constanly getting hit which Kyler could never handle. I'm not saying that Brissett is the long term answer and I am glad that they got a young QB like Beck to develop. I just feel with an improved offensive line and having Love at RB and a solid backups in Connors and Algiers that the Cardinals will be a better team. I just would like to see how the team does with Brissett running this offense. Additionally, we should give not rush Beck as that can ruin a young qb.
Just my two cents! :cool:
 
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Gandhi

Gandhi

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I disagree with you on your comment: "With Brissett, I had absolutely zero hope." Being a season ticket holder I was at every game last year and it was so depressing watching the offense under Kyler. Once Brissett started the entire offense picked up and the passing game was fun to watch. Michael Wilson was finally used and became actually an excellent receiver and McBride started scoring TDs. Unfortunately the defense was terrible and the the offense lost most of the offensive line to injures along with all the backs and they kept losing games.
But Brissett hung in there constanly getting hit which Kyler could never handle. I'm not saying that Brissett is the long term answer and I am glad that they got a young QB like Beck to develop. I just feel with an improved offensive line and having Love at RB and a solid backups in Connors and Algiers that the Cardinals will be a better team. I just would like to see how the team does with Brissett running this offense. Additionally, we should give not rush Beck as that can ruin a young qb.
Just my two cents! :cool:
I actually agree with a lot of your points. I truly feel like Murray held the offense back, and I liked it a lot more when Brissett entered. However, they were also 1-11 with Brissett, and many of his fine stats came at the end of games that were already decided. I never got the sense that he made the team better in games. But of course, you are right that he will have better players around him, so maybe they can lift him instead of the other way around (if he starts).
 

Zalixar

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I actually agree with a lot of your points. I truly feel like Murray held the offense back, and I liked it a lot more when Brissett entered. However, they were also 1-11 with Brissett, and many of his fine stats came at the end of games that were already decided.

This simply isn't true. It did happen a few times against Texans and our division (all top 5 in NFL) sans Kyler. True, we couldn't hang with the elite, but we were competitive in every other game down to the wire, most vs decent/good/playoff teams. With what defense, oline, and rb room?

Better than giving up though, eh?
 

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I badly want to win, but what are the odds of that happening? At least if you talk about contending for titles. So, how do I get enjoyment in-season? Well, to me Love is a wonderful start, especially since it was followed up by strengthening the offensive line and then selecting a new rookie quarterback. Maybe all of it will fail horribly, but at least there is a chance that it will be interesting and watchable if Beck starts. With Brissett, I had absolutely zero hope.
I would say we have hope either way. you could build a case you should have and old fashioned quarterback competition and just be honest with who wins it. Then start the best one and if later on it doesn't work then you let Beck have starts or he wins it ourright?

I think it's kind of in a way it's own excitement, I expect Beck to win it, but it's not a hundred percent he does. Jacoby with good defense and the new weapons and the new system, should win 8 9 maybe 10 games? Beck if he returns to his old form, I'd say 10 wins if we're lucky too? Obviously the Beck thing would be better cause, hope right?
 
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Gandhi

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This simply isn't true. It did happen a few times against Texans and our division (all top 5 in NFL) sans Kyler.
Well, I can only remember two games in the second half of the season, and both were against the horrible NFC South.

Better than giving up though, eh?
Absolutely. I have seen quite a few that already want Cards to lose to get a high draft pick next year. That is wild.
 
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Gandhi

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I think it's kind of in a way it's own excitement, I expect Beck to win it, but it's not a hundred percent he does. Jacoby with good defense and the new weapons and the new system, should win 8 9 maybe 10 games? Beck if he returns to his old form, I'd say 10 wins if we're lucky too? Obviously the Beck thing would be better cause, hope right?
I don’t think they can get to that many win, Maroon, but I like your point that it has its own excitement who wins the job. And yes, I agree that it would be best if Beck wins the job.
 

slanidrac16

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I don’t agree with that, Slanidrac. I think that to compete you must find rookies that you can rely on early, simply because other teams do that. I think that rookies have become very, very important, and drafting for the year after is a bad strategy. That’s also why I don’t agree with people arguing that you cannot evaluate a draft class until three years after. That’s not to say that players cannot get better, of course, but I do think you can evaluate it after one year (and right after the draft, but that is only based on your evaluations of the players leading up to the draft).
We’ ll agree to disagree to a certain point. You hope every draft pick can contribute but to wait degree?
For instance Beck could contribute this year but you really can’t expect him to excel as much as he should in year two or three.
I expect Love to have an immediate impact this year.
 

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I don’t think they can get to that many win, Maroon, but I like your point that it has its own excitement who wins the job. And yes, I agree that it would be best if Beck wins the job.
I here you until I researched him. Before we drafted him, I knew very little about him, I only spent maybe 30 minutes researching him and figured out what the Cardinals were doing. They probably got the best QB in the draft, a lot of people talk him down, but some people really buy into him. Don't assume it can't happen here, we are a shell shocked franchise, I think we just fixed ourselves We shall see.
 

HerefortheCards

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I hope Beck starts from day one and plays all 17 games. Do I think he’s going to lead the Cards to the playoffs, probably not. But we also know that JB isn’t going to take them there either and the Cards might as well find out what they have in Beck.
 

Crimson Warrior

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I here you until I researched him. Before we drafted him, I knew very little about him, I only spent maybe 30 minutes researching him and figured out what the Cardinals were doing. They probably got the best QB in the draft, a lot of people talk him down, but some people really buy into him. Don't assume it can't happen here, we are a shell shocked franchise, I think we just fixed ourselves We shall see.
Beck over Mendoza. Got it.
 
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Gandhi

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We’ ll agree to disagree to a certain point. You hope every draft pick can contribute but to wait degree?
For instance Beck could contribute this year but you really can’t expect him to excel as much as he should in year two or three.
I expect Love to have an immediate impact this year.
Yes, it is not realistic that all of them contribute right away, but two or three of them are a fair expectation, I think. I think that is one reason why the team and Ossenfort have been unsuccessful for years, that the coaches have not been good enough to integrate rookies, plus that the players themselves might not have been good enough either.
 
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Gandhi

Gandhi

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I hope Beck starts from day one and plays all 17 games. Do I think he’s going to lead the Cards to the playoffs, probably not. But we also know that JB isn’t going to take them there either and the Cards might as well find out what they have in Beck.
That is my exact point. Thank you for writing it understandably in one sentence. :)
 

Stout

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I here you until I researched him. Before we drafted him, I knew very little about him, I only spent maybe 30 minutes researching him and figured out what the Cardinals were doing. They probably got the best QB in the draft, a lot of people talk him down, but some people really buy into him. Don't assume it can't happen here, we are a shell shocked franchise, I think we just fixed ourselves We shall see.
You'd take Beck over Mendoza? Funny.
 

football karma

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I expect Carson Beck to start week one.
two situations that lead to this:

1. A Russel Wilson like camp showing by Beck
2. Both Jacoby and Minshew blow out knees

IF its a case of just starting the young guy no matter what -- you really run the risk of losing most of your veteran players who have things to play for -- incentives, their next contract, etc.
 

Cardsfan77

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two situations that lead to this:

1. A Russel Wilson like camp showing by Beck
2. Both Jacoby and Minshew blow out knees

IF its a case of just starting the young guy no matter what -- you really run the risk of losing most of your veteran players who have things to play for -- incentives, their next contract, etc.
I don’t think #1 is quite true to that extreme just because Cards don’t have a financial obligation to Minshew or JB yet like Seahawks did with Flynn at the time not to mention Pete Carroll as incumbent coach who helped decide on Flynn.
 
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Chopper0080

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I don’t agree with that, Slanidrac. I think that to compete you must find rookies that you can rely on early, simply because other teams do that. I think that rookies have become very, very important, and drafting for the year after is a bad strategy. That’s also why I don’t agree with people arguing that you cannot evaluate a draft class until three years after. That’s not to say that players cannot get better, of course, but I do think you can evaluate it after one year (and right after the draft, but that is only based on your evaluations of the players leading up to the draft).
I agree with this. An inability to identify players who can contribute right away means their is a flaw in your scouting process. The potential exception to this is your roster is so stacked that they can't break through but that is certainly not the case with AZ. Maybe you can debate playing vs playing well which was the case last year with Burch, Simon and Burke. Even though they played poorly but at least they played unlike Elijah Jones.
 
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