Isu @ Asu

[devilalum]

Respectfully, there's no way you can know how he handled the blitz because you don't know what packages they had in or if they even had audibles and reads installed. Neither QB called any, not for protection, not for hot reads.

Give Sully just three of the five dropped passes back and he's over 60 percent completion with a couple of touchdowns. Every pass he threw with his feet set was on target, and couple of those would have been great passes at the NFL level because Sully was actually throwing to the proper shoulder in the seams, not just throwing to the numbers.

I liked Oz -- raved about him from the practices I've seen -- but he's not ready and he won't be ready this year. He may have to be ready if Sully gets hurt, but ASU won't be as successful with him starting this year. Just look at the TD pass he threw. That's a pick-six against a Pac-10 team. It's a hanging curveball. You don't throw loopty-loops into the teeth of two-deep coverage, not over the middle, and not into the back seam. Taylor Mays would've been in the other end zone before you or I could have said 'Hello Matsumoto.'

I think ASU fan base suffers far too much from 'backup QB' syndrome. The next guy is always the guy -- until he starts, then it's the NEXT guy. It's the worst reality series in Phoenix. At least give Sullivan four games before you start ripping him to shreds.

I feel completely confident in Ericson's ability to play the best guy. No way he'll be influenced by public opinion.

Looks like this teams formula for success is going to be killer defense + offense that doesn't make mistakes.

 

[AsUdUdE]

Respectfully, there's no way you can know how he handled the blitz because you don't know what packages they had in or if they even had audibles and reads installed. Neither QB called any, not for protection, not for hot reads.

Give Sully just three of the five dropped passes back and he's over 60 percent completion with a couple of touchdowns. Every pass he threw with his feet set was on target, and couple of those would have been great passes at the NFL level because Sully was actually throwing to the proper shoulder in the seams, not just throwing to the numbers.

I liked Oz -- raved about him from the practices I've seen -- but he's not ready and he won't be ready this year. He may have to be ready if Sully gets hurt, but ASU won't be as successful with him starting this year. Just look at the TD pass he threw. That's a pick-six against a Pac-10 team. It's a hanging curveball. You don't throw loopty-loops into the teeth of two-deep coverage, not over the middle, and not into the back seam. Taylor Mays would've been in the other end zone before you or I could have said 'Hello Matsumoto.'

I think ASU fan base suffers far too much from 'backup QB' syndrome. The next guy is always the guy -- until he starts, then it's the NEXT guy. It's the worst reality series in Phoenix. At least give Sullivan four games before you start ripping him to shreds.

sadly as BAD as Carpenter was (again the guy regressed all four years he was here), I had NEVER suffered from "back-up QB sydrome" because I knew just how terrible Sully was...

Again, I am not ready to pull the hook on him yet, but I am terrified that against Georgia he won't be able to read the blitz, or any of the D for that matter...

If I am wrong I will be happier and admit it faster than anyone, but I had hoped to see major improvement from Sully this year from the last 3 years I have watched him, and I didn't....

 

[HooverDam]

I think ASU fan base suffers far too much from 'backup QB' syndrome. The next guy is always the guy -- until he starts, then it's the NEXT guy. It's the worst reality series in Phoenix. At least give Sullivan four games before you start ripping him to shreds.

Is this directed at me or just general statements? Because if you read what I said, I said Sullivan is mediocre. Thats not ripping him to shreds, he was a lightly recruited 2 star coming out of High School and every time he's played for ASU he's looked like it. I'm not calling for Osweiler to start, its Sullivans job to lose but to use words like 'good', 'solid', 'above average' or any other synonym that would be relative to a B grade would be to way over value Danny Sullivan.

 

[Gaddabout]

Again, I am not ready to pull the hook on him yet, but I am terrified that against Georgia he won't be able to read the blitz, or any of the D for that matter...

If I am wrong I will be happier and admit it faster than anyone, but I had hoped to see major improvement from Sully this year from the last 3 years I have watched him, and I didn't....

Sully may have an awful game against Georgia, but Oz isn't going to be better than Sully. Better to give Sully the first-team snaps.

Sully's incompletions were almost entirely throwing the ball away to avoid a sack. There were too many, but that wasn't his fault. But think about it ... when he's given reasonable time, he's VERY accurate.

The bigger concern is when ASU can be healthy along the offensive line and start to recognize where the blitz is coming from. They still had difficulties, and ISU was doing a lot to disguise their blitzes before overloading one side of the line. Hopefully two weeks of film work can clean that up.

 

[CatBoxBackFan]

Ok Doctor

I never could get the two right

 

[Gaddabout]

Is this directed at me or just general statements?

Very general, but your comments were right in that wheelhouse so I responded to them.

Because if you read what I said, I said Sullivan is mediocre. Thats not ripping him to shreds, he was a lightly recruited 2 star coming out of High School

How is that even an argument? For anything? If Sullivan didn't have the ability to perform, do you honestly believe Erickson would be starting him? QB rankings are BS. John Rattay was once a 5-star QB.

and every time he's played for ASU he's looked like it. I'm not calling for Osweiler to start, its Sullivans job to lose but to use words like 'good', 'solid', 'above average' or any other synonym that would be relative to a B grade would be to way over value Danny Sullivan.

Really? And if a 5-star QB played last night instead of Sullivan but had three dropped touchdown passes -- all of them easily cans of corn -- would you be as harsh on that QB as you would Sullivan? No INTs. Even with 5 dropped passes he still completed more than 50 percent of his passes.

I think you're not looking at his actual performance and merely grading him on past performance bias. More importantly, ASU has no real options besides Sullivan if they have any serious bowl ambitions, so if last night was disappointing, I'm guessing you're going to have a very miserable season.

But don't just take my word for it. He's Erickson's choice as starter, too.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

So if I want to skim through the replay do I have to be subjected to Tom Leander and Juan Roque? I really want to see Burfict play.

 

[Gaddabout]

So if I want to skim through the replay do I have to be subjected to Tom Leander and Juan Roque? I really want to see Burfict play.

Pretty awful, huh? They should really just do a simulcast with the radio crew.

 

[AsUdUdE]

So if I want to skim through the replay do I have to be subjected to Tom Leander and Juan Roque? I really want to see Burfict play.

watching Burfict play almost madE suffering through Leander worth it... ALMOST..

 

[FArting]

How did Burfict and Davis Do?

 

[sundevilscott]

Burfict was everything he is made up to be. The Truth should be his nickname because it fits to him as much as Zach. He is so much of a ball hawk it is unreal. On his first series he recovered a fumble caused by Brandon McGee. If you want to see the perfect Burfict highlight go to 4:10 left in the 3rd quarter. That is what he will be doing for 3 years. This LB corp is going to be the tops in the Pac 10.

Here is a link to the picture from Robert Kline on Cactusranch.com.

http://www.cactusranch.com/crgallery/main.php?g2_itemId=29622

 

[HooverDam]

How is that even an argument? For anything? If Sullivan didn't have the ability to perform, do you honestly believe Erickson would be starting him? QB rankings are BS. John Rattay was once a 5-star QB.

Way to miss the point entirely. My point is Danny Sullivan has never in his life been considered someone who could be a big time Pac 10 QB. He wasn't recruited as one, nor has he ever played like one. If you think Danny Sullivan is something other than mediocre you're watching a different game than everyone else.

Also please define "ability to perform." You seem to think it means the ability to go out and not entirely embarrass yourself and the team. Id like a guy who's actually you know, good. I know thats not an option this year, so we're going to have to put up w/ mediocre QB play and mediocre (6 or 7 win) season.

I believe Dennis Erickson is starting him because its the only freakin' choice he's got. Who else should he start?

Really? And if a 5-star QB played last night instead of Sullivan but had three dropped touchdown passes -- all of them easily cans of corn -- would you be as harsh on that QB as you would Sullivan? No INTs. Even with 5 dropped passes he still completed more than 50 percent of his passes.

Get over the damned dropped passes thing. If you watched the game closely Sullivan was mediocre. He threw balls high, had no touch, forced Dennis Erickson to take THREE TIMEOUTS because he couldn't manage the clock and almost had a few other delay of games.

I think you're not looking at his actual performance and merely grading him on past performance bias.

Bologna, thats garbage and you know it. Did you see Dennis Erickson chewing the kid out constantly during the game? I did and so did a few thousand other people. It wasn't because D.E. wanted to ask Danny loudly where he was going for dinner.

I hope you have the game DVR'd, it seems like you need to watch it again. Ignore the plays where the receivers dropped the ball and watch Sullivan, does that look like a GOOD Pac 10 QB to you? If it does your standards are pretty low. To me it looks like a mediocre guy who can maybe lead a team to the Poinsettia bowl.

But don't just take my word for it. He's Erickson's choice as starter, too.

And like Ive said multiple times in this thread which you've ignored I would start him too if I was DE! However just because he's the best choice doesn't make him good. If you have 3 choices, 2 of which are bad does that automatically make one of them a good choice? Of course not.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I believe Dennis Erickson is starting him because its the only freakin' choice he's got. Who else should he start?

To me it looks like a mediocre guy who can maybe lead a team to the Poinsettia bowl.

And like Ive said multiple times in this thread which you've ignored I would start him too if I was DE! However just because he's the best choice doesn't make him good. If you have 3 choices, 2 of which are bad does that automatically make one of them a good choice? Of course not.

These statements sum this situation up perfectly... Who knows, maybe the tall guy surprises and can play well enough so that the defense doesn't have to win every game.
But Sullivan, on his best day is average... barely...

 

[Gaddabout]

Way to miss the point entirely. My point is Danny Sullivan has never in his life been considered someone who could be a big time Pac 10 QB. He wasn't recruited as one, nor has he ever played like one. If you think Danny Sullivan is something other than mediocre you're watching a different game than everyone else.

Also please define "ability to perform." You seem to think it means the ability to go out and not entirely embarrass yourself and the team. Id like a guy who's actually you know, good. I know thats not an option this year, so we're going to have to put up w/ mediocre QB play and mediocre (6 or 7 win) season.

I believe Dennis Erickson is starting him because its the only freakin' choice he's got. Who else should he start?

Having actually had a real conversation with the coaching staff about Sullivan this summer, they think Sullivan has the ability to be an all-conference player. And they weren't laughing when they said it. He has the size, the arm strength, and his mechanics are 1000 percent better than when they first saw him three years ago.

Get over the damned dropped passes thing. If you watched the game closely Sullivan was mediocre. He threw balls high, had no touch, forced Dennis Erickson to take THREE TIMEOUTS because he couldn't manage the clock and almost had a few other delay of games.

The game management was a problem, but it was half of the coaching staff for not getting the play in quick enough. The new play-calling system has kinks. This was a problem on BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL.

Had no touch? He threw almost every single ball with the right zip and touch! I saw four balls to the sidelines where he threw it perfectly to the outside shoulder, eyeball high, which is exactly where that ball is supposed to be thrown (but rarely so in college). He *did* have two balls sail on him early on, but he admitted he was excited and took a quarter to settle down.

Again, none of that is reason to suggest Sullivan will never be more than a mediocre QB, so you MUST be grading him on past performance.

I hope you have the game DVR'd, it seems like you need to watch it again. Ignore the plays where the receivers dropped the ball and watch Sullivan, does that look like a GOOD Pac 10 QB to you? If it does your standards are pretty low. To me it looks like a mediocre guy who can maybe lead a team to the Poinsettia bowl.

LOL. OK, Hoover. You're a guru. You can measure QBs by looking at them. My hat's off and I surrender to your football expertise.

 

[HooverDam]

Having actually had a real conversation with the coaching staff about Sullivan this summer, they think Sullivan has the ability to be an all-conference player. And they weren't laughing when they said it. He has the size, the arm strength, and his mechanics are 1000 percent better than when they first saw him three years ago.

Coaches said their team would be good? Shocking! Mike Stoops said UA has no real weaknesses either, do you think thats a fair assessment? Coaches spout nonsense all the time that has no reflection on reality or how they might really be feeling about something.

The game management was a problem, but it was half of the coaching staff for not getting the play in quick enough. The new play-calling system has kinks. This was a problem on BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL.

So it was on the Coaching staff but every time it happened Erickson yelled at Sullivan? if thats the case we need to get DE some help from a therapist, he should've been yelling at himself or whoever was signaling the plays in.

Had no touch? He threw almost every single ball with the right zip and touch! I saw four balls to the sidelines where he threw it perfectly to the outside shoulder, eyeball high, which is exactly where that ball is supposed to be thrown (but rarely so in college). He *did* have two balls sail on him early on, but he admitted he was excited and took a quarter to settle down.

Again I think we are operating on different definitions. When I say I want a QB to have touch that doesn't mean he should throw the ball 100mph on every throw, thats whats Sullivan did. He was overthrowing a lot last night, if you can't see that, Im sorry but its the truth. He was throwing everything as hard as he could when sometimes it would've been better had he not.

Again, none of that is reason to suggest Sullivan will never be more than a mediocre QB, so you MUST be grading him on past performance.

Everything we've ever seen from Sullivan including Saturday night has been mediocrity. You've got some major maroon and gold tinted glasses on if you think otherwise.

LOL. OK, Hoover. You're a guru. You can measure QBs by looking at them. My hat's off and I surrender to your football expertise.

How else are we supposed to measure QBs? Is looking not the best of the 5 sense to use? Have you been rubbing, smelling, listening to or licking Danny Sullivan? Maybe my unwillingness to lick the great Danny Sullivan is whats leading to my lack of understanding about his solid play!

I think we're not really disagreeing much to tell you the truth, we just have different standards. You see Danny Sullivan and a 6 or 7 win team and think "thats good" I see it and say "its mediocre."

 

[Gaddabout]

How else are we supposed to measure QBs? Is looking not the best of the 5 sense to use? Have you been rubbing, smelling, listening to or licking Danny Sullivan? Maybe my unwillingness to lick the great Danny Sullivan is whats leading to my lack of understanding about his solid play!

I think we're not really disagreeing much to tell you the truth, we just have different standards. You see Danny Sullivan and a 6 or 7 win team and think "thats good" I see it and say "its mediocre."

LOL! This is where you're tripping over my opinion, HD. I'm no Sullivan worshipper, but I think your abject disgust with him is very misplaced. You want my assessment of Sullivan? Here's what I wrote in my notebook this summer:

- Much improved footwork. Good balance. Ball position moved up, good release point. Release too slow. Needs to cut hold-to-release in half. Killer fade. Good velocity, accuracy and outs and slants. Lacks proper arch on medium routes. Loves 3-step. Looks uncomfortable in shotgun. Prefers to be under center. Should never throw on the run.

That's what I saw last night. It's a huge step up from last year and light years ahead of the year before. ASU actually has a QB that is getting better.

Also, Sullivan is not throwing as hard as he can. Trust me, he can throw MUCH harder. He is throwing the slants the way the coaches want him to, the way most coaches teach that -- and they expect the receivers to catch the hot potatoes. It would be different throwing to a back, but not to receivers.

 

[TucsonDevil]

Wow, I didn't realize my post would be taken so personally by others.

The game I watched, I saw Sullivan as he has always been - a backup that can take a few snaps, but don't expect him to 'run' an offense. Sully is not very good. And by that I mean, he doesn't have the mental and emotional capacity to lead men to victory. Sure, he can throw accurate passes, but he can't lead a team. He looked nervous, and failed to sense the pass rush and manage his emotions when it came. Case in point, the first pass rush Osweiller saw, he let the defender get up on him then dumped a pass to his tailback, just beyond the reach of the defender. He did this very calmly. Sully just doesn't have that ability, IMO.

I am all for starting Oz over Sully, but I also understand that he will make mistakes of his own. Sully doesn't have the ability to lead the offense, or even manage a clock. Let's find out if Oz does. For crying out loud, the defense gave him short field after short field and Sully couldn't get his guys a TD to save his life. OZ made it happen three times in a row... yes, some of the blame also lies with Nance...

Yell at me if you want to, but it won't change my opinion. And for the record, I never felt this way the previous two years, because I knew that Sullivan was the backup...

 

[HooverDam]

LOL! This is where you're tripping over my opinion, HD. I'm no Sullivan worshipper, but I think your abject disgust with him is very misplaced. .

See I think thats where you're confused, Im not disgusted with him. I just think he's very 'meh'. I think ASU will have a 'meh' season and go to the Poinsettia Bowl. I'm fine with that if thats what happens, theyre in a rebuilding mode and just need to show improvement this year, go to a bowl and get the extra practice time.

Im looking forward to next year though when ASU has some QBs with more natural ability competing for the job. Between Threet, Osweiler, Samson (if he can ever get healthy) and Peter Thomas, ASU should end up with someone decent.

 

[Gaddabout]

For crying out loud, the defense gave him short field after short field and Sully couldn't get his guys a TD to save his life.

*shaking head*

It's always the QB's fault. Where is the blame for the receivers who dropped touchdown passes? Does Sully give off a pheromone that makes certain people hate him? Don't get it.

I'm done with this thread and maybe this board. Sully may sink himself yet, but the impatience here is galling. Nothing personal y'all, but I think this kind of attitude among ASU faithful is a sickness. I'm tired of defending starting ASU QBs -- from their own fans on the Internet. I've done it for 15 years now. I think I'm through.

Have fun this season. Maybe I'll see some of you at a tailgate.

 

[Ryanwb]

I can safely say, judging from that performance, and that performance only

:championship:

 

[Gaddabout]

I can safely say, judging from that performance, and that performance only

:championship:

 

[Mulli]

*shaking head*

It's always the QB's fault. Where is the blame for the receivers who dropped touchdown passes? Does Sully give off a pheromone that makes certain people hate him? Don't get it.

I'm done with this thread and maybe this board. Sully may sink himself yet, but the impatience here is galling. Nothing personal y'all, but I think this kind of attitude among ASU faithful is a sickness. I'm tired of defending starting ASU QBs -- from their own fans on the Internet. I've done it for 15 years now. I think I'm through.

Have fun this season. Maybe I'll see some of you at a tailgate.

You are totally out?

 

[AsUdUdE]

I do realize I am totally drinking the koolaid, but the more I think about the Defense, the more if our offense can score 20 PPG, we should have a decent chance of winning every week....

I am not on the sully bandwagon, but I am running along side simply waiting on a sign to hop on, if he is impressive against ULM, or simply adaquate against Georgia, I will be on the front of that wagon going forward...

I really don't thnk Georgia is any good, Cox (their very own "sully") didn't show me anything, they lost their LT for the year, their RBs were overlly impressive either... Their defense was quite good, but tended to give up the big play... Before I didn't think we had any chance at beating georgia in Athens, but now I think we have a chance, and a solid one at that...

8-4 is my official prediction for the season, come and get it!

 

[Gaddabout]

You are totally out?

Nah, just this ASU board. I have plenty of other places to discuss ASU where I don't feel like I'm part of an entirely different fan base.

There's a certain perspective I don't agree with -- a constant state of hyper criticism. It's the reason why I generally avoid the credit card boards. I'm probably a little too plugged in to the internal workings to be spouting off on these public boards, anyway. I'm looking through this thread and realizing I've been channeling a little bit of a certain associate AD.

 

[lauraw]

Gaddabout, I saw the game and I'm a lifettime ASU fan [since the late 60's], but I'll be honest i didn't see anything special about Sullivan. Now I liked the Freshman, Osweiller or whatever, and I wish Jack Elway would've worked out. I really liked the defensive intensity that lasted the whole game which has been missing here at ASU for YEARS!!