Gannon and Monti have Brought Optimism Back

[dreamcastrocks]

Well, if we are going to have a stupid conversation..... How about Whisenhunt?

First three seasons was 8-8, 9-7, 10-6 with two Division titles, an NFC Championship and a 4-2 playoff record. Even Arians can't top that run. So, I go with Whiz as being the best coach here. If Gannon can go 15-2 this season he will have the same number of wins in his first three seasons as Whisenhunt did.

I agree 100%. Shouldn't even be a debate.

 

[iLLmatiC]

LOL he didn’t? Who was the QB when he was brought on board?

I like Gannon and hope he does well, but ppl need to pump the brakes. He’s not on Ken Whisenhunt’s level yet.

Exactly. He hasn’t won a playoff game or taken us to the Super Bowl yet. I’m excited for this team again finally but he’s not Arians or Whisenhunt level yet.

 

[GeorgiaCard88]

Too soon to crown them until we see some production but no doubt the cardinals have been in some dark days the past years and now finally looks like we have stable competence at both positions with a clear methodical plan and upward trajectory

 

[Cheesebeef]

Exactly. He hasn’t won a playoff game or taken us to the Super Bowl yet. I’m excited for this team again finally but he’s not Arians or Whisenhunt level yet.

He hasn’t even gotten us to a winning record.

I’m looking forward to seeing what he can do with this D, but anyone mentioning him in the same breath as Arians or Whiz right now is drinking Kool-Aid flavored Drano.

 

[BACH]

He hasn’t even gotten us to a winning record.

I’m looking forward to seeing what he can do with this D, but anyone mentioning him in the same breath as Arians or Whiz right now is drinking Kool-Aid flavored Drano.

That is fair. And I don’t.

But it’s a fact that Gannon have had the worst rosters of any of the HCs in the convo, because the owner and new GM did a complete rebuild and half a season without a QB, so using win record to prove that is pointless.

JC has outperformed given the rosters he had to work with IMO. Kliff’s teams constantly underperformed IMO.

If this continues when the talent on the roster is getter better, then we can have the conversation again. But we’ll wait and see, because this is going to be the first year JC has a team at the level of what the other guys had

 

[TRW]

My mantra every year is "I'm not from Missouri but I was born just across the river, so show me and then I'll believe". I never enter a Cardinal season with optimism, been let down too often.

Kudos to youz who can.

 

[Mulli]

It's about to get to the point where that emoji, (like the big laugh one) will be considered trolling. (with punishment to follow)

If we aren’t supposed to use it, why is it an option?

 

[CardNots]

we’ll wait and see

and we are on the edge of our seat…

for some, at the end of our rope

 

[kerouac9]

Bro… The discussion point YOU stated is on relative performance. You measure performance comparative to baseline.

Once again. Effort points for trying to change the subject. You deserve a participation star

The point I made was based on ABSOLUTE PERFORMANCE.

You can be big mad about the reality that Kliff took over a 3-13 team and went 13-18-1 (.406 winning) and Gannon took over a 4-13 team and went 12-22 (.353 winning). But that's what the reality is and this is a bottom-line business.

I'm not ready to fire Gannon. He has a fairly high approval rating from me. But trying to massage facts and then denying the reality because you don't like it does you no favors.

The Whisenhunt and Arians debates are more interesting to me and good offseason fodder. Whis was 17-15 through two seasons but made the Super Bowl. Arians was 21-11 with a wild card loss where Ryan Lindley(!) hung tough for a half. I call these pretty close, but it's a good debate based on later careers who was better. Once Warner left Whis tumbled down the garbage disposal.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

Ya, dreaming is free so hurray but NFL stands for not for long if you don’t win.

the quarterback is on more of a hot seat than Coach JC.

 

[blindseyed]

the quarterback is on more of a hot seat than Coach JC.

Who's coach JC?

 

[JohnnyCakes]

Who's coach JC?

Sorry, Mis-type

JG

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

whiz produced but i still have constant empty backfield shotgun ptsd - dude went beautiful mind towards the end

 

[Chopper0080]

The deranged take is arguing that these two are identical.

Kyler Murray = Joshua Dobbs.
Larry Fitzgerald = Michael Wilson.
Chandler Jones = Jonathan Ledbetter.

Gotha!

If you aren't going to compare the two based on the previous year's record, and instead want to pick all of the nits between individuals players on the 53 man roster, I don't know that you ever going to be able to compare coaches. Too many minute differences that can't really be weighed.

It's fair to argue that both coaches were brought in to coach a bottom win team. It is also fair to state that in the 1st two seasons, Kliff was able to produce a better record. Kliff was able to get the team to the playoffs in year 3, can Gannon do that? IDK.

Arians had a great run and has the highest winning % of a AZ HC in modern history. Whiz had a great initial run, and nearly was able to get the team it's first Super Bowl title in franchise history. He then couldn't figure out how to replace Warner and got fired.

I get being hopeful regarding Gannon (I am) but people are definitely putting the cart before the horse with him right now.

 

[Card'em]

Back to the point...Gannon and Monti have brought optimism back. You may not agree with everything Monti and Gannon have done to this point, but how can anyone not be optimistic about the upcoming season?

 

[Chopper0080]

Back to the point...Gannon and Monti have brought optimism back. You may not agree with everything Monti and Gannon have done to this point, but how can anyone not be optimistic about the upcoming season?

I am optimistic that the Cardinals won't be a bottom 5 NFL team. I optimistic the roster has been improved. I have no idea if it will be enough to take the next step this franchise needs to take.

 

[Carolinacacti]

The QB will alternately decide this season. I have faith he gets us ten wins. Anything over that is gravy

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Arians won games with Drew Stanton and Blaine Gabbert under center.
Bruce is the correct answer here.

 

[Mulli]

Arians won games with Drew Stanton and Blaine Gabbert under center.
Bruce is the correct answer here.

Josh Dobbs would like a word

 

[Proximo]

He hasn’t even gotten us to a winning record.

I’m looking forward to seeing what he can do with this D, but anyone mentioning him in the same breath as Arians or Whiz right now is drinking Kool-Aid flavored Drano.

This is ridiculous. You don't think the talent of the team has a lot to do with the win loss record regardless of the coach?

I would take JG over Whisenhunt any day. The fact he got that sorry defense to at least be mediocre last year is amazing coaching. The whole defense last year was made up of just a guy's, rookies, 2nd year late picks, street free agents, and Budha and JT. That's great coaching.

 

[football karma]

The Whisenhunt and Arians debates are more interesting to me and good offseason fodder. Whis was 17-15 through two seasons but made the Super Bowl. Arians was 21-11 with a wild card loss where Ryan Lindley(!) hung tough for a half. I call these pretty close, but it's a good debate based on later careers who was better. Once Warner left Whis tumbled down the garbage disposal.

yes! there is 4+ months until the regular season

Whis got the benefit of a pretty decent Denny Green built roster and Kurt Warner waiting in the wings -- but he also gets 100% credit for ditching high #1 pick Matt Leinart and going with Warner. That choice wasnt so obvious as it is now.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

This is ridiculous. You don't think the talent of the team has a lot to do with the win loss record regardless of the coach?

I would take JG over Whisenhunt any day. The fact he got that sorry defense to at least be mediocre last year is amazing coaching. The whole defense last year was made up of just a guy's, rookies, 2nd year late picks, street free agents, and Budha and JT. That's great coaching.

then riddle me this batman

if we were able to win in the first half of last season but not the second - wth?

did we trade all that talent away at the bye? I think there would have been something about it on the espn but regardless - when the team should have been improving we backslid - teams figured us out and we never adjusted

if you look at the games themselves we had the same detrimental problems in the same quarters followed by meaningless unsuccessful comebacks

we drove off a cliff last year - only one steering wheel

 

[Shane]

then riddle me this batman

if we were able to win in the first half of last season but not the second - wth?

did we trade all that talent away at the bye? I think there would have been something about it on the espn but regardless - when the team should have been improving we backslid - teams figured us out and we never adjusted

if you look at the games themselves we had the same detrimental problems in the same quarters followed by meaningless unsuccessful comebacks

we drove off a cliff last year - only one steering wheel

Both DL and Ol were obliterated with injuries. Not really rocket science.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

Both DL and Ol were obliterated with injuries. Not really rocket science.

do you mean the cardinals or nearly every team in the league?

 

[Chopper0080]

This is ridiculous. You don't think the talent of the team has a lot to do with the win loss record regardless of the coach?

I would take JG over Whisenhunt any day. The fact he got that sorry defense to at least be mediocre last year is amazing coaching. The whole defense last year was made up of just a guy's, rookies, 2nd year late picks, street free agents, and Budha and JT. That's great coaching.

When it comes to being a coach, you are what your record says you are. Of course there are a lot of factors, but in the end most probably fall in the mid category. Like some others on the board, it was Arians work with backup QBs that impressed me the most about him. He was able to get mid results out of bad QBs. IMO, that is above average coaching ability. Whis was able to get the team to the Super Bowl with a Hall of Fame QB. But, he wasn't able to get anything out of subsequent QBs which probably puts him more in the average category. Kliff failed because he couldn't figure out the locker room, and how to hold his young superstar QB accountable. Wilks was a goof. Gannon still TBD.