Cardinals at Commanders gameday thread 9-10-23

[Crimson Warrior]

Its a bad move, bad strategy by Monti. He was doing great until letting go of Hopkins imo.

I say that because Im not sure you can properly evaluate Kyler or Petzing with these wrs.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing Lou.

On our last offensive play, Wilson was covered like a blanket. I mean he had zero separation.

Moore showed some signs of life, but we're going to have to feature Hollywood. And I'm not sure if he has the build to be like a 100 receptions guy. He's pretty slight.

Maybe get Dortch out there too. All that man does it make the most out of every single opportunity that he's given.

 

[ajcardfan]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing Lou.

On our last offensive play, Wilson was covered like a blanket. I mean he had zero separation.

Moore showed some signs of life, but we're going to have to feature Hollywood. And I'm not sure if he has the build to be like a 100 receptions guy. He's pretty slight.

Maybe get Dortch out there too. All that man does it make the most out of every single opportunity that he's given.

That one deep throw, really the only one Dobbs made over 20 yards, Wilson tried to go up and stab it out of the air but didn't touch it. How many times did DHop make that exact catch on a similar throw by Kyler? It was still 17-16 at the moment and would've put us in FG range in one play.

The wr room might actually be the least productive one on the team. I thought it would be the cornerbacks and defensive secondary overall. But that unit actually looked better than the WRs as a whole.

 

[SoonerLou]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing Lou.

On our last offensive play, Wilson was covered like a blanket. I mean he had zero separation.

Moore showed some signs of life, but we're going to have to feature Hollywood. And I'm not sure if he has the build to be like a 100 receptions guy. He's pretty slight.

Maybe get Dortch out there too. All that man does it make the most out of every single opportunity that he's given.

I mean Hollywood can be a really good#2. A deep threat who takes the top of the defense for a real #1 wr to get those underneath throws.

However, we only saw him opposite a #1 WR for just 1 game with Kyler (and 3 plays vs the Pats).

Kyler has his flaws and faults. But as I was watching the Dolphins game today. Im like man the Dolphins and Chargers are loaded at WR.

Kyler was playing really well with a healthy Hopkins, Kirk as a #2 and a AJ Green becoming washed.

That one deep throw, really the only one Dobbs made over 20 yards, Wilson tried to go up and stab it out of the air but didn't touch it. How many times did DHop make that exact catch on a similar throw by Kyler? It was still 17-16 at the moment and would've put us in FG range in one play.

The wr room might actually be the least productive one on the team. I thought it would be the cornerbacks and defensive secondary overall. But that unit actually looked better than the WRs as a whole.

Its why I would have forced Hopkins to deal with it. He's dealing with Tannehill's 3 int garbage anyway. Lets fully evaluate Kyler with a #1 WR and then either move off Hopkins in the offseason (if we get Marvin Harrison Jr) to slide into that role.

As of now there is just a lack of size (Hollywood/Moore) or a lack of speed (Wilson/Pascal) out there.

Its also why I say they really want Kyler to prove he's the guy without the best circumstances. Cause no way you go into the season with that WR core.

Only Houston and maybe Carolina are worse.

 

[DVontel]

Only Houston and maybe Carolina are worse.

Someone hasn’t watched the Giants.

But yea Carolina is the worst.

 

[outcent13]

At the end of the day most backup QBs don’t win much in the NFL. It’s really a matter of preference and has a lot more to do with what they bring to the table from an intangible standpoint.

If Dobbs was the guy handpicked to bring those intangibles to the QB room then a fifth round pick I’m sure will be worth it. Just don’t expect it to result in wins in games he starts.

I would suspect that how hard Dobbs works in the classroom and the perception that it may not be a strength of Kylers has something to do with this move.

 

[SoonerLou]

Someone hasn’t watched the Giants.

But yea Carolina is the worst.

Ehh

I actually like Hyatt over Wilson long term. Although I hope Im wrong on that.

Hollywood is better than Slayton, but I'd take a recovering Shepard, Campbell and Hodgins over Moore, Pascal, Dortch tbh.

Daniel Jones is always terrible against the Cowboys.

Edit: Yea the Giants Wrs are pretty bad as well though.

 

[Arz101]

1. Keim was air lifted by Arians

2. The third choice GM burnt a 5th round pick on the eve of week 1 to get a QB who is not sure of his arm or legs.

3. Every one who made a difference today are all Keim picks?

 

[MadCardDisease]

If your plan is to build through the draft, 5th round picks matter. Throwing them away for a scrub QB is ill advised.

I don’t disagree that trading a 5th for a decent NFL player who is under contract for multiple years can be good. This wasn’t that.

The Cards had 11 picks in the 2024 draft before the Dobbs trade. They have 11 picks afterwards and still have two 5th round picks.

I’m sure the Cardinals can still build through the draft with 11 picks. Six of which are in the first 3 rounds.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Cards had 11 picks in the 2024 draft before the Dobbs trade. They have 11 picks afterwards and still have two 5th round picks.

I’m sure the Cardinals can still build through the draft with 11 picks. Six of which are in the first 3 rounds.

Just like it’s okay for me to say this Defense was much better than I ever thought it could be today and gave me a little hope for the future, it’s okay to just say trading for Dobbs was a bad move.

I swear guys, admitting you were wrong about something the Cardinals did that you repeatedly argued was right won’t make you spontaneously burst into flames.

You can just say it was a bad move. If all of us were able to do this, we’d probably be able to avoid never ending threads and flame wars where eventually posters start calling each other idiots, insane, stupid, etc.

Edit: most of the above isn’t directed at you MadCard. It’s directed at the board, in general, stuff of which I’ve been guilty of too.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

If your plan is to build through the draft, 5th round picks matter. Throwing them away for a scrub QB is ill advised.

I don’t disagree that trading a 5th for a decent NFL player who is under contract for multiple years can be good. This wasn’t that.

I would love if you can provide data on the following, since you make it sound so simple, and cut and clear:

5th round hit rate in drafts
5th round trades that have resulted in a decent NFL player who is under contract for multiple years and is good

^ the above is what you're arguing for, verbatim. Where does this exist and how do we hire that GM?

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

The Cards had 11 picks in the 2024 draft before the Dobbs trade. They have 11 picks afterwards and still have two 5th round picks.

I’m sure the Cardinals can still build through the draft with 11 picks. Six of which are in the first 3 rounds.

Exactly.... with the way Chopper values picks you would figure he would have started a thread praising Monti based off our draft set up in '24

 

[kerouac9]

I would love if you can provide data on the following, since you make it sound so simple, and cut and clear:

5th round hit rate in drafts
5th round trades that have resulted in a decent NFL player who is under contract for multiple years and is good

^ the above is what you're arguing for, verbatim. Where does this exist and how do we hire that GM?

There are some data scientists that lurk on this forum, I'm sure. I'm also fairly sure @Chopper0080 isn't among that number. Asking anyone here to do a deep data analysis -- especially with something as nebulous as "hit rate" -- isn't fair or something you would do on demand.

That said, here's a pretty cool data analysis of the AV on NFL Draft picks by round from a few years ago. Based on that, it seems like you're likely to get a cost-controlled below-average player for a few years with a fifth round pick.

Monti used a pick in that round to get one year and a player with the 20th-highest cap charge on the team. A guy whom many here are done with after one game.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Just like it’s okay for me to say this Defense was much better than I ever thought it could be today and gave me a little hope for the future, it’s okay to just say trading for Dobbs was a bad move.

I swear guys, admitting you were wrong about something the Cardinals did that you repeatedly argued was right won’t make you spontaneously burst into flames.

You can just say it was a bad move. If all of us were able to do this, we’d probably be able to avoid never ending threads and flame wars where eventually posters start calling each other idiots, insane, stupid, etc.

Edit: most of the above isn’t directed at you MadCard. It’s directed at the board, in general, stuff of which I’ve been guilty of too.

As for my comment to chopper, it was with regards to his suggestion that swapping a 2024 5th for a 7th would prevent the Cardinals from building through the draft. I don’t believe it will.

I also don’t believe the Cardinals “threw away” a pick. Dobbs looked like crap against the Commies that is for sure. However the Cardinals are getting a full season to try out Dobbs for the backup QB position. I have my doubts whether he sticks but he has only been with the team for all of a week.

When it comes to the QB position I think the Cardinals need to continue to take their shots. Unfortunately most of those shots are going to fail. I don’t believe that Dobbs will ever be anything more that a backup.

Would I have traded for Dobbs? Probably not seeing as I didn’t know much about him other than he played for Tennessee back in the day. However I can understand how the current coaching staff would want to bring in a QB that they are comfortable with. Maybe see if he sticks. McCoy looked shot against the Vikings and wasn’t going to be on the team next season. At least with Dobbs the Cardinals have a guy who could potentially be an option past this season. If Dobbs doesn’t work out all they lost is moving back 50ish spots in the draft late on day three.

Additionally I personally don’t believe that Tune is ready to start. I think he has potential but if the Cards start him too early I’m afraid of him losing his confidence. So I would rather have Dobbs take the lump’s early on to give Tune as much time as possible to become more comfortable with game day process and more time in this new offense. I think the Cardinals will roll with Dobbs for at least a game or two more. Thus giving Tune a couple more weeks to get accustomed to the game flow on Sundays.

 

[BritCard]

It's OK to not complain. Let's normalise "meh, it is what it is".

Backup QBs lose games. We were always likely to be not very good on offense as soon as Kyler was hurt.

McCoy would be bad. Tune would be bad. Dobbs will likely be bad.

The coaches thought Dobbs had the best chance of being least bad in their effort to win games. Was the 5th too much? Probably. But there isn't a team in the league that hasn't occasionally overpaid a little.

It was going to cost a 6th at best so it's nitpicking. It's trivial.

Lots of positives to take away. QB play is unlikely to be one until Kyler returns.

I looked up the stats. Since 2000 backup QBs (excluding starters at the tail end or future starters just starting out) win 1 in 4 games.

 

[Outerlimits]

Frankly, I don't understand why anyone would be super pessimistic from the result. The team was far more competitive than I thought they would be. The Cards were playing early on the East Coast a QB on the team for 2 weeks. The team would have likely destroyed Washington with Kyler playing.

The result yesterday should create some cautious optimism about our new coaching staff at the very least.

 

[Phrazbit]

ASFN: 5th rounders don't mean anything

Also ASFN: We can't throw Tune to the wolves

Strong dislike of the Dobbs trade, but Tune MIGHT have potential, even on the slim chance, you shouldn't throw an ill prepared QB out there.

That said... you know Dobbs sucks... why trade for him? They should have ran McCoy out there or plucked some other vet off the waiver wire.

I get not starting Tune, but there is no logic in picking up Dobbs.

 

[Garthshort]

Yeah. Maybe Monti learns from it. Maybe he doesn’t. Doesn’t change the fact that this was a bad move. Not the end of the world, but a bad move.

If you want to call Dobbs a bad move after one game, and it is does look that way, TRY to be fair in your opinion of Monti by at least mentioning some good (imo, great) moves he made.

 

[Garthshort]

Strong dislike of the Dobbs trade, but Tune MIGHT have potential, even on the slim chance, you shouldn't throw an ill prepared QB out there.

That said... you know Dobbs sucks... why trade for him? They should have ran McCoy out there or plucked some other vet off the waiver wire.

I get not starting Tune, but there is no logic in picking up Dobbs.

I'll admit that I might have missed it, but which team picked up McCoy, and did he play yesterday?

 

[BullheadCardFan]

We got Dobbs

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[Garthshort]

Bottom line about yesterday's game, imo, is that we competed.

 

[Card'em]

McCoy's regression and ultimate flameout during the preseason put the Cards in a tough position. There were no good options at that point, and trading for Dobbs was just a necessary evil. You can make the case that the Cards should have foreseen McCoy's demise, but his career 6-6 won loss record with the Cards was reason to believe that he would have been an adequate back up for Murray. Crapping on Dobbs or the decision to acquire him just seems to be Monday morning quarterbacking.

The Cards need to improve their roster at quite a few positions and backup quarterback is just one of them.

 

[SoonerLou]

McCoy's regression and ultimate flameout during the preseason put the Cards in a tough position. There were no good options at that point, and trading for Dobbs was just a necessary evil. You can make the case that the Cards should have foreseen McCoy's demise, but his career 6-6 won loss record with the Cards was reason to believe that he would have been an adequate back up for Murray. Crapping on Dobbs or the decision to acquire him just seems to be Monday morning quarterbacking.

The Cards need to improve their roster at quite a few positions and backup quarterback is just one of them.

I think they should have had the foresight to not rely on a 37 Year old backup whose only real success in the NFL was with Kliff Kingsbury.

 

[kerouac9]

Crapping on Dobbs or the decision to acquire him just seems to be Monday morning quarterbacking.

It doesn’t seem like that to those of us who we’re saying it was an inexplicable decision at the time.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'll admit that I might have missed it, but which team picked up McCoy, and did he play yesterday?

I might have missed it... would starting McCoy have cost us a draft pick?

Furthermore, would any other team in the entire league have considered playing Dobbs?

It's a nonsense argument.

I don't care about McCoy.

 

[football karma]

the mistake on backup QB wasnt made in August -- it was made in March.

the fact that they were talking to Dobbs back then indicates they knew then they needed a McCoy alternative

all those training camp reps have value --