Rate the Hollywood Brown trade

[BritCard]

Go back and revisit this thread. NOBODY says we should have paid Kirk that. Nobody says we should have extended earlier for a cheaper deal. In fact, the Jags are mocked for signing him. Lots of posts straight up say Kirk is basically trash. A lot more threads thrashing Kirk last year, and the year before that, can be bumped.

Kirk to Jaguars

Kirk was the last remaining player from our 2018 draft class. And somehow Steve Keim received a 5 year extension. Just baffling. It's not...we just don't want to face the hard, brutal truth of the matter. He's getting paid for his stop gap signings. Is what it is. It's something we'll all just...

www.arizonasportsfans.com

So, the revisionist history is laughable. Brown had a bad drop in the last game. Then people get all emotional over that play and suddenly second guess not re-signing Kirk. Did everyone forget Kirk was ripped for drops as well?

Every NFL WR drops passes. Even the greats like Larry Fitzgerald and Hopkins.

Brown has one drops and everyone is like "He's got a drop problem" when he has one of the lowest drop rates in the league.

I was one of the few people here defending Kirk and saying he was better than we allowed him and even I didn't think he was worth more than $13m. And people were calling me nuts for saying he would get that.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Brown has one drops and everyone is like "He's got a drop problem" when he has one of the lowest drop rates in the league.

I was one of the few people here defending Kirk and saying he was better than we allowed him and even I didn't think he was worth more than $13m. And people were calling me nuts for saying he would get that.

That was Brown's SECOND big 4th down drop of the season, not first.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

That was Brown's SECOND big 4th down drop of the season, not first.

Guy wants to be paid as a top WR - top WR come down with the big catches.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Guy wants to be paid as a top WR - top WR come down with the big catches.

Hard to disagree. I would have given the benefit of the doubt if it was one.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

A.J. Brown Stats, News, Bio | ESPN

Latest on Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver A.J. Brown including news, stats, videos, highlights and more on ESPN

www.espn.com

This is a guy you pay a first rounder for, not Kyler's little buddy.

 

[BritCard]

That was Brown's SECOND big 4th down drop of the season, not first.

No, it was his 1st. The other wasn't a drop. He caught the ball and was then steam rolled in the back by a safety at full speed while in mid air. Having held the ball for about 0.5 seconds.

Anyone calling that a drop is being highly disingenuous.

Any even if it was, he still has one of the lowest drop rates in the league.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Yes the smart decision would’ve been to extend Kirk a year before free agency and got a hometown discount while Kirk de-risked and got the bag. Then we still have the tweener 2/3 receiver plus the pick to build the roster.

Zach Allen and Byron Murphy here in 2023 will be two more similar examples of Keim’s amateur hour approach to roster building.

100% this. We should be extending guys in their final years and building a roster.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Deebo has a 10% drop rate, as does Gabe Davis. Jalen Waddle has 7.4%. Amari Cooper 7.3%. Chase 7.2%. AJ Brown 6%.

And with the exception of Davis, you named players that are all markedly better than Brown. Even though they drop the ball from time to time - crazy huh?

 

[BritCard]

Guy wants to be paid as a top WR - top WR come down with the big catches.

Where has he said he wants to be paid like a top WR? I'm sure he does.. Who wouldn't? But lets not take things invented on this board and start acting like he said it.

His actual words,

“So it’s not even anything where I was looking to get paid. That was going around, like, ‘Oh, I’m holding out so I can get paid.’ It’s not even like that. I’ve been broke before. I’m not looking to break the bank right now. I’m looking to get to a situation where I can thrive and have fun.”

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Where has he said he wants to be paid like a top WR? I'm sure he does.. Who wouldn't? But lets not take things invented on this board and start acting like he said it.

Dude - you really need me to explain this to you? Why do you think the Ravens traded Brown? Do you really need me to spell out to you that players in the last year of their rookie deals want to get paid big time, and he knew that wasn't going to happen in Baltimore?

His actual words,

“So it’s not even anything where I was looking to get paid. That was going around, like, ‘Oh, I’m holding out so I can get paid.’ It’s not even like that. I’ve been broke before. I’m not looking to break the bank right now. I’m looking to get to a situation where I can thrive and have fun.”

Lol, well he said it so it must be true!

 

[Devilmaycare]

You do realize that what prompted this trade was that we KNEW we would be without Hop for 6 weeks??? If you have a bitch with anyone, let it be with Hop. If Hop doesn’t get suspended, we would have taken that stud C with our 1st pick.

You don't cover up a problem with a bad move. Hop's suspension also wouldn't have required a panic move if Keim could draft a WR and hadn't wasted all of those picks on receivers who are too small to ride all of the rides at Disneyland.

 

[Russ Smith]

I was ok with the trade at the time but honestly now feel like we didn't have enough info to evaluate it. The Cards knew at that time that both Hudson and Pugh wanted to retire, we the fans didn't know that. If we did, we MIGHT have evaluated the Hollywood trade differently knowing we should probably be taking an OL with that first pick, likely a C.

I like Brown I think he's very good. We haven't seen the full receiving group with Murray all year and obviously won't now, Murray is out and Ertz is out, and Rondale is still out. At the time evaluating it I thought an elite WR in Hop, a very good one in Hollywood, a promising one in Rondale, a very good receiving TE in Ertz, with Murray could be an elite passing attack. Didn't know anything about the OL being this bad. Figured if we can get through the first 6 games we have a chance to be an elite offense.

Kyler played horribly and of course the OL was a dumpster fire and again the Cards knew going in the situation with Pugh and Hudson and just chose to believe they had solved it by convincing them both to come back. Terrible decision.

As for next year I of course want to keep Allen and Murphy but frankly I want to keep Hollywood too. This year it was wait for Hop, next year it will be wait for Kyler but again the same situation is there, although Ertz will likely be out longer than Kyler with 2 ligaments and his age.

So to me the key this offseason is keep the key pieces and do the best you can to fix the lines on both sides. I'm not sure if we have enough draft capital to do it and it's very unlikely good OL's will be available in FA or by trade. So it sure would be nice if both Hayes and Lecitus Smith turn out to be good next year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I was ok with the trade at the time but honestly now feel like we didn't have enough info to evaluate it. The Cards knew at that time that both Hudson and Pugh wanted to retire, we the fans didn't know that. If we did, we MIGHT have evaluated the Hollywood trade differently knowing we should probably be taking an OL with that first pick, likely a C.

I like Brown I think he's very good. We haven't seen the full receiving group with Murray all year and obviously won't now, Murray is out and Ertz is out, and Rondale is still out. At the time evaluating it I thought an elite WR in Hop, a very good one in Hollywood, a promising one in Rondale, a very good receiving TE in Ertz, with Murray could be an elite passing attack. Didn't know anything about the OL being this bad. Figured if we can get through the first 6 games we have a chance to be an elite offense.

Kyler played horribly and of course the OL was a dumpster fire and again the Cards knew going in the situation with Pugh and Hudson and just chose to believe they had solved it by convincing them both to come back. Terrible decision.

As for next year I of course want to keep Allen and Murphy but frankly I want to keep Hollywood too. This year it was wait for Hop, next year it will be wait for Kyler but again the same situation is there, although Ertz will likely be out longer than Kyler with 2 ligaments and his age.

So to me the key this offseason is keep the key pieces and do the best you can to fix the lines on both sides. I'm not sure if we have enough draft capital to do it and it's very unlikely good OL's will be available in FA or by trade. So it sure would be nice if both Hayes and Lecitus Smith turn out to be good next year.

Man I’d take just one of them panning out as a heavy hallelujah!

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Have you considered they tried to extend Kirk and he didn't want to know?

I wouldn't have extended if I was Kirk. He was grossly misused until his final year here.

I don't know if there were any negotiations but smart franchises make the attempt. Your GM goes to the player's agent 1-2 years before they hit free agency and say:

"You can take say $10M guaranteed now and take risk off the table. Or play until free agency where maybe you get $20M but if you get hurt or don't play up to expectations then you get nothing."

That's called negotiating and my guess is with CK being a local guy probobly would've taken the money. Same with Murphy.

 

[BritCard]

I don't know if there were any negotiations

You could have just stopped there.

Not sure how he could have extended him 2 years before when you can't extended until after year 3.

And if Keim had given Kirk $10m after a 621 yard season you would have lost your ****.

No agent (or player) is extending early when they are on an upwards curve and they will get more money later.

And any player that wants to isn't a player you should unless they already establish how great they are.

Which is why practically everyone taken outside round 1 from the 2019 draft is yet to be extended.

The only players extended are Deebo, Sutton, Metcalf, Johnson, Mclaurin and AJ Brown.

The only none WR extended is Erik McCoy. Many good starters haven't including Risner, Elgton Jenkins, Juan Thornhill, Rapp, Alderley, Miles Sanders, Jawaan Taylor and Rock Ya-sin. Which is completely normal.

This whole argument is devoid of realism.

 

[Chopper0080]

Yes the smart decision would’ve been to extend Kirk a year before free agency and got a hometown discount while Kirk de-risked and got the bag. Then we still have the tweener 2/3 receiver plus the pick to build the roster.

Zach Allen and Byron Murphy here in 2023 will be two more similar examples of Keim’s amateur hour approach to roster building.

100%. I have said this as well on all three players. You rarely want your young burgeoning talent to play out their contract year to where you need to pay them top dollar after one top year of production.

You extend Kirk a year early and you get a guy who is learning a new offense, the obvious number two, but a guy who can fit the offense and will have a large role because of our personnel tendencies. Costs you 8-10 mil.

Same this past offseason with Allen and Murphy. Both showed improvement last year and were going to have HUGE roles this year. Pay them early so they have a chance to outperform the contract.

 

[BritCard]

100%. I have said this as well on all three players. You rarely want your young burgeoning talent to play out their contract year to where you need to pay them top dollar after one top year of production.

You extend Kirk a year early and you get a guy who is learning a new offense, the obvious number two, but a guy who can fit the offense and will have a large role because of our personnel tendencies. Costs you 8-10 mil.

Same this past offseason with Allen and Murphy. Both showed improvement last year and were going to have HUGE roles this year. Pay them early so they have a chance to outperform the contract.

Literally nobody does this.

The only players that extend early are those that have already been so good they know they can get paid top money.

Find me any player that's extended early that hasn't been one of the best in league and didn't get paid top money.

Show me an OK player who took an early discounted extension.

 

[BritCard]

Literally nobody does this.

The only players that extend early are those that have already been so good they know they can get paid top money.

Find me any player that's extended early that hasn't been one of the best in league and didn't get paid top money.

Show me an OK player who took an early discounted extension.

Instead of hitting the disagree button @kerouac9 show me one.

Show me a Kirk, Murphy or Allen that got extended early. Any time in the last 5 years. There should be loads right?

 

[Chopper0080]

Instead of hitting the disagree button @kerouac9 show me one.

Show me a Kirk, Murphy or Allen that got extended early. Any time in the last 5 years. There should be loads right?

Like Jalen Thompson...?

 

[Chopper0080]

Cortland Sutton

 

[Chopper0080]

Tim Patrick

 

[Chopper0080]

Kenny Moore

 

[kerouac9]

Instead of hitting the disagree button @kerouac9 show me one.

Show me a Kirk, Murphy or Allen that got extended early. Any time in the last 5 years. There should be loads right?

Dennis Gardeck

 

[123]

Dre Greenlaw

 

[kerouac9]

TJ Watt signed his extension in September of his FA year.