Suns Off-season Thread

[Folster]

I'm not going to shoot the messenger but didn't someone just post a Flex comment a couple days ago saying that Lebron was a better bet in Phoenix than KD?

So we're getting both!

 

[AzStevenCal]

So we're getting both!

Yeah and we already know that free agent soon to be Kyrie Irving wants to play with Durant or Lebron so guess what's next?

 

[Folster]

Yeah and we already know that free agent soon to be Kyrie Irving wants to play with Durant or Lebron so guess what's next?

I'll puke if we get a 38 year old LeBron.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'll puke if we get a 38 year old LeBron.

I'd agree except that it makes it almost a guarantee that Sarver is out, and soon. I just can't see any chance of Lebron and his agent doing business with the Suns organization while Robert is still in place. So, that makes it slightly more palatable, enough so that I might be able to fight off the gag reflex.

 

[how_sweet_it_is]

I'll puke if we get a 38 year old LeBron.

Me too. The last time I saw an article writer on a Suns site (the editor, no less) talk about acquiring lebron james, I closed the browser tab in disgust. Those people had a crude word to describe daydreaming about the Suns getting this or that superstar player, but it was suddenly forgotten.

I have sensed that NBA followers are generally tired of the ubiquity of lebron james, especially when he presumptiously comments on socio-political issues as though he knows anything. It's not as though they're annoyed at james so much as that they seem to roll their eyes. I'll give Michael Jordan this: Jordan almost never made himself out to be anything but a basketball player. james, on the other hand: I've always loved this barb that I saw a writer throw at him: "Inasmuch as he knows how to bounce a ball, and to throw it in the air at just the correct arch so that it goes through a hoop with netting on its way down, he fancies himself a political commentator and intellectual."

Jordan was also much more discreet and diplomatic than James in his money-grubbing greed. I mean, there's little difference between the two of them in this area--except that james is more crass.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Me too. The last time I saw an article writer on a Suns site (the editor, no less) talk about acquiring lebron james, I closed the browser tab in disgust. Those people had a crude word to describe daydreaming about the Suns getting this or that superstar player, but it was suddenly forgotten.

I have sensed that NBA followers are generally tired of the ubiquity of lebron james, especially when he presumptiously comments on socio-political issues as though he knows anything. It's not as though they're annoyed at james so much as that they seem to roll their eyes. I'll give Michael Jordan this: Jordan almost never made himself out to be anything but a basketball player. james, on the other hand: I've always loved this barb that I saw a writer throw at him: "Inasmuch as he knows how to bounce a ball, and to throw it in the air at just the correct arch so that it goes through a hoop with netting on its way down, he fancies himself a political commentator and intellectual."

Jordan was also much more discreet and diplomatic than James in his money-grubbing greed. I mean, there's little difference between the two of them in this area--except that james is more crass.

There's a lot of things I don't like about Lebron James, being politically and socially active is not one of them. What should he do with his fame, power and wealth? Or better yet, why should he not try and use his influence to make this nation, this world or just a small part of it a better place?

There are millions of people that try and use their station in life to effect change, some of it's positive and some of it's negative. Why should an NBA player not have that same opportunity? We all have the right to decide whether we like or support the position he takes on any subject, just like we do when anyone speaks out.

 

[Mainstreet]

Wait… has this deal already gone down?!

I should have been clearer. I'm talking about the contents of a rumored trade between the Hawks and Spurs for Dejounte Murray.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I should have been clearer. I'm talking about the contents of a rumored trade between the Hawks and Spurs for Dejounte Murray.

Well, I know that's what I thought you and he were talking about when I responded to him so if he misunderstood your post, mine is probably just going to make it worse.

 

[how_sweet_it_is]

There was a brief time when I respected lebron james...but I almost immediately lost it. It was early in his career, his first stint with the Cavaliers. According to reports, his teammate Ira Newble approached him to sign a petition about the Darfur genocide. james declined to sign the petition, telling Newble that he did not know enough about the situation. I was impressed: james was humble enough to admit his ignorance. But people (possibly other teammates) heard, and criticized him. He very quickly figured out that he was expected to cooperate, and made a pompous statement to the media about it being about human lives at the end of the day. (Who knew?) I groaned.

I respect the late Kobe Bryant's personality more. As nasty and obnoxious as Bryant was on the court, he was more like Jordan off the court, minding his own business. Bryant probably did many good works, but didn't try to make sure the world heard about them. Didn't try to make the world know what a good person he was. Only after Bryant died did I learn that Bryant was a dedicated family man and a practicing Catholic. I find this honest and unpretentious. Ever since the alleged rape, Bryant seemed to be a jerk only on the court.

 

[Hoop Head]

There was a brief time when I respected lebron james...but I almost immediately lost it. It was early in his career, his first stint with the Cavaliers. According to reports, his teammate Ira Newble approached him to sign a petition about the Darfur genocide. james declined to sign the petition, telling Newble that he did not know enough about the situation. I was impressed: james was humble enough to admit his ignorance. But people (possibly other teammates) heard, and criticized him. He very quickly figured out that he was expected to cooperate, and made a pompous statement to the media about it being about human lives at the end of the day. (Who knew?) I groaned.

I respect the late Kobe Bryant's personality more. As nasty and obnoxious as Bryant was on the court, he was more like Jordan off the court, minding his own business. Bryant probably did many good works, but didn't try to make sure the world heard about them. Didn't try to make the world know what a good person he was. Only after Bryant died did I learn that Bryant was a dedicated family man and a practicing Catholic. I find this honest and unpretentious. Ever since the alleged rape, Bryant seemed to be a jerk only on the court.

I don't think Bryant had much of a choice in the matter in regards to staying silent on social issues considering he was accused of rape and went through a very public trial. I know he wasn't found guilty but he did pay off the accuser to get it to go away in the end. I won't pretend to know whether he was guilty of the crime or not but whenever Kobe's name would be mentioned outside of sports talk, the fact he was an accused rapist was brought up. Rather than constantly have his name drug through the mud and his character questioned, he stuck to basketball.

 

[Covert Rain]

If your employees contract is up and wants to be paid market value I see nothing wrong with that.

This is what fans don’t understand. The Market sets contracts. They think only stars get that Rookie Max.

Yes Luka did get a max but so did D’Angello Russell. Well he may not be more valuable than Luka but is he more valuable than DLO?

If your an agent all you have to do is point that out. I hear Luka over and over but what I don’t hear is Andrew Wiggins, he also got a rookie max.

He’s not asking for Luka money he’s just asking for MPJ money. See how that works

The market sets the money. The rookie max isn’t only based on production it’s also based on projection. If your his agent you look and say my guys clearly gotten better every year and is only 23 years old.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with asking for a max. I am saying it's a piss poor negotiations tactic. I have dealt with contracted employees plenty in my career. There is a way to approach negotiations that don't alienate the other side. The point of negotiations is to have a dialogue. Acting like you have already made it to the pinnacle of contracts while the team thinks you still have something to prove and BEFORE you actually explore the market seems pretty dumb. I have stated many times that the market dictates contracts and I was sure another team is willing to pay him the max in a sign and trade scenario. Now that you brought that up, notice how many teams have seemingly backed away from Ayton. So, maybe the Suns were right in terms of his value. We shall see.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm honest enough both with myself and with others to acknowledge why I bet that Ayton stays. It's because I would prefer that he stay, in hopes of somehow working out his own immaturity issue. Why? Because I also recognize a brutal truth: Ayton's potential--not Ayton as he is now--is the only thing at all the Suns have that other contenders don't have! Booker? Sorry, lots of other teams have scoring wizards. They're not a-dime-a-dozen, but they come every now and then. Good defense? Other contenders play good defense. One of the best centers in the league who might become better later? That's it...the Suns have nothing else going for them that can't be countered. If they had met the Warriors in the playoffs, the Warriors could have brushed back every element of the Suns' game--except Ayton. Stephen Curry can score as much as Devin Booker; the Warriors can defend as well as the Suns or better (as shown by their out-defending the Celtics).

I would rather that the Suns effectively give Ayton Chris Paul's salary a year or two early, and accept the tax burden. Even if it means they wouldn't have much money to offer a replacement point guard after Paul retires. There's no choice, unless you think the Suns can lose Ayton and still contend. I don't. Ayton may be immature and may want more money than he deserves, but he's still certainly the best center the Suns have ever had.

I would have agreed with you a decade ago. The way the NBA is played, teams no longer need to build around Centers. Look at the teams that have won the most NBA titles in the last decade. There is no question IMO the Suns are better with Ayton as the roster stands. However, if you could get a star PF and legit starting PG out of a deal I pull the trigger in a heartbeat. I don't want Ayton to be traded for peanuts and weaken the roster. It makes no sense. I would rather keep him then make a stupid trade.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I heard a rumor that Flex’s source is Booker’s brother (half) Davon Wade. Apparently they are friends. Since the Suns see him as a good ambassador for them they also kick him down some crumbs here and there. I doubt the Suns give him anything substantial. Wade can give him some interesting stuff, but info from the brother of the teams star most certainly has its limitations.

That’s interesting, if true.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not going to shoot the messenger but didn't someone just post a Flex comment a couple days ago saying that Lebron was a better bet in Phoenix than KD?

76%

 

[Covert Rain]

That’s interesting, if true.

Definitly, since Flex gets plenty wrong and the previous assumption was, he knew someone from the medical staff. You would think that Devon's brother for example would know if his brother's nose was actually broken. Flex said it wasn't. Who knows? I have seen "insiders" guys gaslight their ways into careers before. Flex wouldn't be the first.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There was a brief time when I respected lebron james...but I almost immediately lost it. It was early in his career, his first stint with the Cavaliers. According to reports, his teammate Ira Newble approached him to sign a petition about the Darfur genocide. james declined to sign the petition, telling Newble that he did not know enough about the situation. I was impressed: james was humble enough to admit his ignorance. But people (possibly other teammates) heard, and criticized him. He very quickly figured out that he was expected to cooperate, and made a pompous statement to the media about it being about human lives at the end of the day. (Who knew?) I groaned.

I respect the late Kobe Bryant's personality more. As nasty and obnoxious as Bryant was on the court, he was more like Jordan off the court, minding his own business. Bryant probably did many good works, but didn't try to make sure the world heard about them. Didn't try to make the world know what a good person he was. Only after Bryant died did I learn that Bryant was a dedicated family man and a practicing Catholic. I find this honest and unpretentious. Ever since the alleged rape, Bryant seemed to be a jerk only on the court.

Well at least you own up to prefer the alleged rapist to the guy who has created schools and stood up for injustices. Weird, but you be you.

 

[Mainstreet]

I heard a rumor that Flex’s source is Booker’s brother (half) Davon Wade. Apparently they are friends. Since the Suns see him as a good ambassador for them they also kick him down some crumbs here and there. I doubt the Suns give him anything substantial. Wade can give him some interesting stuff, but info from the brother of the teams star most certainly has its limitations.

Flex provides more insight into the Suns than what the local media offers.

 

[Covert Rain]

Well at least you own up to prefer the alleged rapist to the guy who has created schools and stood up for injustices. Weird, but you be you.

I am with you. I have zero respect for Kobe the person. The adoration/admiration of him is the biggest problem I have with sports. Ignore the person, hold the athlete up on a pedestal. I can respect what a person does on the court, but it doesn't mean I respect them as a person or human being.

 

[Covert Rain]

Flex provides more insight into the Suns than what the local media offers.

No he doesn't. You admitted to me you don't listen to much radio. Local radio guys provide alot more insight. Then they usually have people from the ORG or other media outlets on to either corroborate or backup stories. Flex is not anywhere close to that tier of insight. For example, Gambo (I know some people don't like him) has a ton of contacts. When Ainge was with the Celtics and Kerr with Golden State? With those connection he would bring up things around those teams that ended up being true. Those guys have legitimate relationships all over the NBA and other sports. That is real insight compared to someone's brother sister's uncle's cousin that works for the Suns.

 

[Mainstreet]

No he doesn't. You admitted to me you don't listen to much radio. Local radio guys provide alot more insight. Then they usually have people from the ORG or other media outlets on to either corroborate or backup stories. Flex is not anywhere close to that tier of insight.

The local media seldom offers insight into breaking news.

I follow local podcast interviews, read tweets and articles when they provide useful information.

We've had this discussion before.

 

[Hoop Head]

Flex provides more insight into the Suns than what the local media offers.

That's not true if his "insight" is fabricated. In addition to that though he seems to parrot what the local media already has touched on only he'll sprinkle in an added detail or two in an attempt to make himself seem more "in the know" than anyone else. He's been wrong enough that I don't believe anything he says at this point.

The KD talk originated before he ever touched on it so whether it happens or it doesn't, his credibility won't take much of a hit. That's by design though because he deliberately presents things in a way he can work both sides. Those who choose to believe him will continue to do so and those who think he's a scam will continue viewing him that wait.

 

[Covert Rain]

The local media seldom offers insight into breaking news.

I follow local podcast interviews, read tweets and articles when they provide useful information.

We've had this discussion before.

We have and you are way off. I listen to both. Most of the time these podcast guys are speculating or regurgitating rumor. You are simply wrong about the local media. They are way more connected than some podcast guy named Flex. That's not to say Flex doesn't get tidbits or actually know somebody. He very well could. That still doesn't compare to years of local media guys forming relationships in these organizations at every level (trainers, players, front office). For example, you often can tell when local guys are holding back for fear of outing who gave them info. They know stuff they won't say. Comparing who is more connected a podcast guy or local media guy with real relationships in the organizations is hilarious.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I am with you. I have zero respect for Kobe the person. The adoration/admiration of him is the biggest problem I have with sports. Ignore the person, hold the athlete up on a pedestal. I can respect what a person does on the court, but it doesn't mean I respect them as a person or human being.

I felt like this regarding Kobe early in his career. He seemed to mature and develop into a respectable and admirable person--even more so after he retired. I will allow people to change/grow as human beings and respond accordingly.

 

[Mainstreet]

After missing four games for health and safety protocols, Flex said Booker would play at the Heat in 2022 which no other source had previously called.

I'm not here to defend Flex, but he gets some calls right.

 

[Covert Rain]

I felt like this regarding Kobe early in his career. He seemed to mature and develop into a respectable and admirable person--even more so after he retired. I will allow people to change/grow as human beings and respond accordingly.

If he did rape that girl...something he really never flatly denied...just danced around it by saying he didn't realize or see it that way......he could try and become Mother Theresa and it wouldn't change anything.