Deandre Ayton discussion

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'd feel better if Deandre Ayton had performed better the last two games of the Lakers series: 8 points and 7 rebounds in Game 5 and 8 points and 3 rebounds in Game 6.

He was on another level in the first four games.

Game 5 didn’t worry me as much. He slept walked through the first quarter but then flashed in the second (like 7 and 5). By the third quarter the game was over.

but the last game he was almost nonexistent except for a short spurt in the fourth. Cant have game 6 Ayton in the nugz series.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'd feel better if Deandre Ayton had performed better the last two games of the Lakers series: 8 points and 7 rebounds in Game 5 and 8 points and 3 rebounds in Game 6.

He was on another level in the first four games.

dude is a human yo-yo. Game 5, he made an impact despite those numbers as most of them came in the big push to get the lead to 30 at half. Game 6 we saw sleepy Ayton again.

the entire season was like this. We shouldn’t be surprised to see that continuing in the post season. My hope is we see enough of the yo-yo go up in each series to keep moving on.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Game 5 didn’t worry me as much. He slept walked through the first quarter but then flashed in the second (like 7 and 5). By the third quarter the game was over.

but the last game he was almost nonexistent except for a short spurt in the fourth. Cant have game 6 Ayton in the nugz series.

borg.

 

[Mainstreet]

Game 5 didn’t worry me as much. He slept walked through the first quarter but then flashed in the second (like 7 and 5). By the third quarter the game was over.

but the last game he was almost nonexistent except for a short spurt in the fourth. Cant have game 6 Ayton in the nugz series.

dude is a human yo-yo. Game 5, he made an impact despite those numbers as most of them came in the big push to get the lead to 30 at half. Game 6 we saw sleepy Ayton again.

the entire season was like this. We shouldn’t be surprised to see that continuing in the post season. My hope is we see enough of the yo-yo go up in each series to keep moving on.

The reason I mentioned Game 5 and 6 is because Jokic is a machine. He is relentless. The Suns chances of winning the series with the Nuggets will largely depend on Ayton playing consistent offense and defense.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Games 5 and 6 were both strange games. We got up massively in both due to Booker’s flame throwing, and that changed the dynamics. Also, in Game 6, the Lakers went small and Monty sat DA.

In all the games that were contests wire to wire he showed out.

Also, if anyone ever cares to look beyond the box score I think you will see that DA’s energy and gravity helped open things up for our shooters and guards. Moreover, even though he only had 3 rebounds in 32 minutes in game 6, we comfortably outrebounded LA, and of course his presence under the basket is a big reason why.

 

[Raze]

Game 5 didn’t worry me as much. He slept walked through the first quarter but then flashed in the second (like 7 and 5). By the third quarter the game was over.

but the last game he was almost nonexistent except for a short spurt in the fourth. Cant have game 6 Ayton in the nugz series.

So I took that as an indirect challenge to rewatch Game 6 and see how Ayton played. I only watched the first quarter, but here are my notes:

Played 9:27 minutes

Wins tip

2 solid Screen Assists but multiple solid screens. Also looked open twice on both S&R opportunities.

2 Contested Shots on Lebron James, he missed both badly.
Only once was he scored on: Kuzma with nice running hook with DA perfectly extended to contest.
His man probably had the ball 10 times and passed on 7 of them. DS even got a TO because he didn't want to try to shoot over him. IOW they wanted no part of shooting over him.

2 Rebounds. Was in position for a defensive rebound 4 out of 5 opportunites. (didn't have a lot of opportunites because he's defending AD and Gasol on the perimeter). The one miss was Harrell beat him to the spot late in the quarter (3:29) He subbed out 1 minute later (2:33). Offensively he had zero opportunities due to two excellent box outs by AD and Gasol.

Only touched the ball 2 times(!) on O. Once when he was in his baseline position to crash boards (this is when he isn't part of the play and looks only to get OR), Book shouldn't have passed to him there. The other time Book passed to him in the lane, looks like a fumble, but the pass was a laser, the ball found its way back to Book for a short baseline made 2.

It was a nearly flawless 9:29. One missed box out. One possible fumbled pass. A ton of great plays on the defensive end. Lakers scored 12 points in his 9:27.

I'll gladly have this DA in the Nuggets series.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So I took that as an indirect challenge to rewatch Game 6 and see how Ayton played. I only watched the first quarter, but here are my notes:

Played 9:27 minutes

Wins tip

2 solid Screen Assists but multiple solid screens. Also looked open twice on both S&R opportunities.

2 Contested Shots on Lebron James, he missed both badly.
Only once was he scored on: Kuzma with nice running hook with DA perfectly extended to contest.
His man probably had the ball 10 times and passed on 7 of them. DS even got a TO because he didn't want to try to shoot over him. IOW they wanted no part of shooting over him.

2 Rebounds. Was in position for a defensive rebound 4 out of 5 opportunites. (didn't have a lot of opportunites because he's defending AD and Gasol on the perimeter). The one miss was Harrell beat him to the spot late in the quarter (3:29) He subbed out 1 minute later (2:33). Offensively he had zero opportunities due to two excellent box outs by AD and Gasol.

Only touched the ball 2 times(!) on O. Once when he was in his baseline position to crash boards (this is when he isn't part of the play and looks only to get OR), Book shouldn't have passed to him there. The other time Book passed to him in the lane, looks like a fumble, but the pass was a laser, the ball found its way back to Book for a short baseline made 2.

It was a nearly flawless 9:29. One missed box out. One possible fumbled pass. A ton of great plays on the defensive end. Lakers scored 12 points in his 9:27.

I'll gladly have this DA in the Nuggets series.

Thank you for going back and reviewing a quarter of his play. You haven’t posted here often enough for me to know if you’re typically a critic or defender of Ayton. I’m curious whether I’d describe the quarter in the same manner. Usually when Ayton gets boxed out it’s bc he doesn’t exert effort. But I really don’t have the desire to spend my time trying beat up Ayton.

The truth is, as I and a lot of other posters have been saying, that we don’t win a game against the lakers without Ayton. It’s a baseline requirement for a suns win. And I’m sure in all of them you can find a myriad of the little un-counted actions (like screens and shot alterations) that he provides that add to a win. But also the truth is when he scores just 8 points and grabs just 3 rebounds that’s under production that makes winning more difficult. We were lucky that book and crowder were blazing to counter his underproduction. Overall Ayton had a terrific series. It’s okay to admit that one of those games was less than stellar.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

So I took that as an indirect challenge to rewatch Game 6 and see how Ayton played. I only watched the first quarter, but here are my notes:

Played 9:27 minutes

Wins tip

2 solid Screen Assists but multiple solid screens. Also looked open twice on both S&R opportunities.

2 Contested Shots on Lebron James, he missed both badly.
Only once was he scored on: Kuzma with nice running hook with DA perfectly extended to contest.
His man probably had the ball 10 times and passed on 7 of them. DS even got a TO because he didn't want to try to shoot over him. IOW they wanted no part of shooting over him.

2 Rebounds. Was in position for a defensive rebound 4 out of 5 opportunites. (didn't have a lot of opportunites because he's defending AD and Gasol on the perimeter). The one miss was Harrell beat him to the spot late in the quarter (3:29) He subbed out 1 minute later (2:33). Offensively he had zero opportunities due to two excellent box outs by AD and Gasol.

Only touched the ball 2 times(!) on O. Once when he was in his baseline position to crash boards (this is when he isn't part of the play and looks only to get OR), Book shouldn't have passed to him there. The other time Book passed to him in the lane, looks like a fumble, but the pass was a laser, the ball found its way back to Book for a short baseline made 2.

It was a nearly flawless 9:29. One missed box out. One possible fumbled pass. A ton of great plays on the defensive end. Lakers scored 12 points in his 9:27.

I'll gladly have this DA in the Nuggets series.

amazing what happens when someone actually watches the game as opposed to being tethered to box score stats

well done

 

[AzStevenCal]

Thank you for going back and reviewing a quarter of his play. You haven’t posted here often enough for me to know if you’re typically a critic or defender of Ayton. I’m curious whether I’d describe the quarter in the same manner. Usually when Ayton gets boxed out it’s bc he doesn’t exert effort. But I really don’t have the desire to spend my time trying beat up Ayton.

The truth is, as I and a lot of other posters have been saying, that we don’t win a game against the lakers without Ayton. It’s a baseline requirement for a suns win. And I’m sure in all of them you can find a myriad of the little un-counted actions (like screens and shot alterations) that he provides that add to a win. But also the truth is when he scores just 8 points and grabs just 3 rebounds that’s under production that makes winning more difficult. We were lucky that book and crowder were blazing to counter his underproduction. Overall Ayton had a terrific series. It’s okay to admit that one of those games was less than stellar.

For whatever it's worth I've found him to be knowledgeable and consistent as a poster and I've seen nothing that would suggest he turns a blind eye towards Ayton (or any player).

 

[JCSunsfan]

So I took that as an indirect challenge to rewatch Game 6 and see how Ayton played. I only watched the first quarter, but here are my notes:

Played 9:27 minutes

Wins tip

2 solid Screen Assists but multiple solid screens. Also looked open twice on both S&R opportunities.

2 Contested Shots on Lebron James, he missed both badly.
Only once was he scored on: Kuzma with nice running hook with DA perfectly extended to contest.
His man probably had the ball 10 times and passed on 7 of them. DS even got a TO because he didn't want to try to shoot over him. IOW they wanted no part of shooting over him.

2 Rebounds. Was in position for a defensive rebound 4 out of 5 opportunites. (didn't have a lot of opportunites because he's defending AD and Gasol on the perimeter). The one miss was Harrell beat him to the spot late in the quarter (3:29) He subbed out 1 minute later (2:33). Offensively he had zero opportunities due to two excellent box outs by AD and Gasol.

Only touched the ball 2 times(!) on O. Once when he was in his baseline position to crash boards (this is when he isn't part of the play and looks only to get OR), Book shouldn't have passed to him there. The other time Book passed to him in the lane, looks like a fumble, but the pass was a laser, the ball found its way back to Book for a short baseline made 2.

It was a nearly flawless 9:29. One missed box out. One possible fumbled pass. A ton of great plays on the defensive end. Lakers scored 12 points in his 9:27.

I'll gladly have this DA in the Nuggets series.

This is quite helpful.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So I took that as an indirect challenge to rewatch Game 6 and see how Ayton played. I only watched the first quarter, but here are my notes:

Played 9:27 minutes

Wins tip

2 solid Screen Assists but multiple solid screens. Also looked open twice on both S&R opportunities.

2 Contested Shots on Lebron James, he missed both badly.
Only once was he scored on: Kuzma with nice running hook with DA perfectly extended to contest.
His man probably had the ball 10 times and passed on 7 of them. DS even got a TO because he didn't want to try to shoot over him. IOW they wanted no part of shooting over him.

2 Rebounds. Was in position for a defensive rebound 4 out of 5 opportunites. (didn't have a lot of opportunites because he's defending AD and Gasol on the perimeter). The one miss was Harrell beat him to the spot late in the quarter (3:29) He subbed out 1 minute later (2:33). Offensively he had zero opportunities due to two excellent box outs by AD and Gasol.

Only touched the ball 2 times(!) on O. Once when he was in his baseline position to crash boards (this is when he isn't part of the play and looks only to get OR), Book shouldn't have passed to him there. The other time Book passed to him in the lane, looks like a fumble, but the pass was a laser, the ball found its way back to Book for a short baseline made 2.

It was a nearly flawless 9:29. One missed box out. One possible fumbled pass. A ton of great plays on the defensive end. Lakers scored 12 points in his 9:27.

I'll gladly have this DA in the Nuggets series.

issue here is that people weren't saying he was sleep walking in the first quarter. the entire team came out like gangbusters. It was the next couple quarters that he seemed to drift.

 

[Raze]

Thank you for going back and reviewing a quarter of his play. You haven’t posted here often enough for me to know if you’re typically a critic or defender of Ayton. I’m curious whether I’d describe the quarter in the same manner. Usually when Ayton gets boxed out it’s bc he doesn’t exert effort. But I really don’t have the desire to spend my time trying beat up Ayton.

The truth is, as I and a lot of other posters have been saying, that we don’t win a game against the lakers without Ayton. It’s a baseline requirement for a suns win. And I’m sure in all of them you can find a myriad of the little un-counted actions (like screens and shot alterations) that he provides that add to a win. But also the truth is when he scores just 8 points and grabs just 3 rebounds that’s under production that makes winning more difficult. We were lucky that book and crowder were blazing to counter his underproduction. Overall Ayton had a terrific series. It’s okay to admit that one of those games was less than stellar.

I would like to think I'm objective about Ayton, but I certainly admit I have some homer in me.

For what it's worth I posted this on February 27th:

I've been wondering the same thing. I can see two reasons for the decline in numbers.

1. There are two Aytons I've seen this year: a)one locked in, and b)one in the clouds.

a) When he's locked in you can tell. He's crashing boards, attacking the rim, dunking the ball, aggressively boxing out, verbally involved.

b) When he's in the clouds, YOU CAN TELL, or at least my wife and kids can tell because I'm constantly yelling at the TV. He's passive, weak in the lane, spectating rather than participating, and he catches balls like StoneHands from Necessary Roughness ("The ball is my friend"). I've seen this guy quite a bit in the last few games.

Last night I was yelling at him for the first quarter or so, and then cheering for him the rest. That's the first time I've seen him "switch" midgame.

2. Teams have been watching film on us and taking advantage of the way we switch on D. DA is getting ISOed on the G a lot and taking him out of position to board. That's going to reduce his numbers. This is certainly not his fault.

The hard thing with evaluating Ayton is the numbers don't seem to tell the full story. 8pts and 3rbs certainly sounds miserable. But I wonder how Monty would evaluate him. My guess is that he is doing exactly what Monty is telling him to do. So, crazy as it sounds, 8 and 3 might be close to his ideal production playing in this particular game. And as you point out, Jae and Book were en fuego so that reduced his opportunites (I unofficially counted 9 TOTAL offensive touches for the game).

Yes, I went back and watched the rest of the game (I can't seem to get enough of watching the Suns beat the Lakers). I won't bore everyone with the notes, but it essentially looked the same as the 1st quarter. He was very good in the 2nd, except for one moment where he brought the ball down on a dunk that LJ swiped away. He was absolutely fantastic in the 3rd quarter up until DS got him to leave his feet at the 5:14 mark. After that he looked dog tired and missed an OR and a DR. He sat at 3:50. I thought he looked mediocre in the 4th. The Lakers went small and DA was mostly a perimeter defender at that point.

If the argument is that DA needs to score more, then for this game I'd place the blame on Monty. The Guards clearly were told to not look at DA in the post. He never even presented on the block to receive an entry pass. It looked like that was the game plan.

After looking over every second of his game time I would surmise that he was exceptional in what his coach asked him to do.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

/discussion

 

[dscher]

amazing what happens when someone actually watches the game as opposed to being tethered to box score stats

well done

Seems odd that your fixated on this aspect. I don't see many, if any, posters (myself included) complaining about the guy and his stats. He clearly is able to disappear at times. So the attention seems to be focused there and the reasons for such things to occur rather than stats. But, were glad we have you watch the games for us since we're not able.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Seeing as how truth coming from me makes you so mad, perhaps it will be more palatable coming from Raze.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I would like to think I'm objective about Ayton, but I certainly admit I have some homer in me.

For what it's worth I posted this on February 27th:



The hard thing with evaluating Ayton is the numbers don't seem to tell the full story. 8pts and 3rbs certainly sounds miserable. But I wonder how Monty would evaluate him. My guess is that he is doing exactly what Monty is telling him to do. So, crazy as it sounds, 8 and 3 might be close to his ideal production playing in this particular game. And as you point out, Jae and Book were en fuego so that reduced his opportunites (I unofficially counted 9 TOTAL offensive touches for the game).

Yes, I went back and watched the rest of the game (I can't seem to get enough of watching the Suns beat the Lakers). I won't bore everyone with the notes, but it essentially looked the same as the 1st quarter. He was very good in the 2nd, except for one moment where he brought the ball down on a dunk that LJ swiped away. He was absolutely fantastic in the 3rd quarter up until DS got him to leave his feet at the 5:14 mark. After that he looked dog tired and missed an OR and a DR. He sat at 3:50. I thought he looked mediocre in the 4th. The Lakers went small and DA was mostly a perimeter defender at that point.

If the argument is that DA needs to score more, then for this game I'd place the blame on Monty. The Guards clearly were told to not look at DA in the post. He never even presented on the block to receive an entry pass. It looked like that was the game plan.

After looking over every second of his game time I would surmise that he was exceptional in what his coach asked him to do.

We will never know because we don’t know what Monty instructed him, but with the lakers going small I have a difficult time believing that Ayton was instructed to never present on the block for an entry pass. We’ve seen that happen in games for years now and it’s not been unusual for Monty to call him about failing to be aggressive. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the case here (being consistent with past similar performances) but Monty wouldn’t want to take away from vanquishing the lakers and moving on to the next series.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Seeing as how truth coming from me makes you so mad, perhaps it will be more palatable coming from Raze.

Does every one of your posts have to be so condescending?

 

[Chaplin]

Does every one of your posts have to be so condescending?

Even though this is a question it is a perfect description of his posts.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

There is only one tone to take with box score slappies. I wasn’t condescending towards Raze because his posts did not warrant it. Read better.

 

[dscher]

Does every one of your posts have to be so condescending?

Maybe because he's 21....??!!

 

[Hoop Head]

There is only one tone to take with box score slappies. I wasn’t condescending towards Raze because his posts did not warrant it. Read better.

Do you even watch the games? You don't show up in game threads or say anything until the day after games when sites like BBReference update their advanced stats.

 

[elindholm]

amazing what happens when someone actually watches the game as opposed to being tethered to box score stats

Says the guy who just used advanced metrics to claim that Cam Johnson was the Suns' third-best player in the series.

If you want to be a big shot, son, you'd best start by keeping your story straight. Some of us on this forum have pretty good memories.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Says the guy who just used advanced metrics to claim that Cam Johnson was the Suns' third-best player in the series.

If you want to be a big shot, son, you'd best start by keeping your story straight. Some of us on this forum have pretty good memories.

Until we don't anymore. Age, alzheimers, you know. Hard to believe that a lot of us have been on this board nearly 20 years now.

 

[Adrian]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Big Deal]

Says the guy who just used advanced metrics to claim that Cam Johnson was the Suns' third-best player in the series.

If you want to be a big shot, son, you'd best start by keeping your story straight. Some of us on this forum have pretty good memories.