Chriss???

Mainstreet

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Yeah, unions are seeing laws change and some people are going to opt out of paying union dues because they won't be required to anymore. I guarantee that isn't the case in pro sports, it is very easy to see the role their unions play in keeping free agency alive and as the only protection the players have against the pro sports virtual monopolies (and legal monopoly in the MLB's case). Maybe a player here and there will whine about paying for the union but I'm sure their agents will tell them they're a fool.

Besides, in pro-sports case I'm guessing the percentage of their contracts payers play to the union is virtually nothing... I wouldn't be surprised if licensing agreements the players associations make companies pay for all of it and then some.

I agree with all of this.

Players in pro sports are treated well. I can't see why players would fight it. However, I think major pro sports are monopolies and the unions are a way to get around it.

However, if unions are somehow minimized or declared illegal by a court, everything can change.
 

BC867

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The issue for me, when a person turns into an adult (usually 18) they should not be denied a job. If there is going to be a minimum age it should apply to everyone.
I don't think you can compare professional sports to private (or public) industry.

Unless you rise to the point of corporate executive with a contract within industry, all you have to do is give two weeks notice to be free to change employers. And that is not even set in stone.

In professional sports (which has implied aging limitations -- a ballplayer can't keep playing 'til he's 65), the draft and contracts must be honored and a player's shelf life is relatively short.

Any rules which pertain to it should include what it is in the best interest of the teams and the players and be worked out by the leagues and the unions.

And it looks like the major U.S. sports are different enough that each should be decided separately. 'Not ideal, but necessary, considering that basketball/football and baseball draw from different sources for their talent.
 

Phrazbit

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I agree with all of this.

Players in pro sports are treated well. I can't see why players would fight it. However, I think major pro sports are monopolies and the unions are a way to get around it.

However, if unions are somehow minimized or declared illegal by a court, everything can change.

I get the basis for saying that people cannot be forced to pay union dues but there is no basis for unions being made illegal, it won't happen.
 

Mainstreet

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I get the basis for saying that people cannot be forced to pay union dues but there is no basis for unions being made illegal, it won't happen.

I hope not because unions protect and help a lot of people. It keeps businesses honest.

If they disappear, we are not far removed from the days where businesses will take advantage. Although pro sports may keep unions, I can see them disappearing from a lot of other fields of work.
 

Mainstreet

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I don't think you can compare professional sports to private (or public) industry.

Unless you rise to the point of corporate executive with a contract within industry, all you have to do is give two weeks notice to be free to change employers. And that is not even set in stone.

In professional sports (which has implied aging limitations -- a ballplayer can't keep playing 'til he's 65), the draft and contracts must be honored and a player's shelf life is relatively short.

Any rules which pertain to it should include what it is in the best interest of the teams and the players and be worked out by the leagues and the unions.

And it looks like the major U.S. sports are different enough that each should be decided separately. 'Not ideal, but necessary, considering that basketball/football and baseball draw from different sources for their talent.

I'm not so sure they are that much different BC. I think courts and fans make exceptions because Americans love sports and do not want see the last outward aspect of parity fade away.

I love the professional drafts but I'm not sure they are really legal or fair.
 

BC867

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I hope not because unions protect and help a lot of people. It keeps businesses honest.

If they disappear, we are not far removed from the days where businesses will take advantage. Although pro sports may keep unions, I can see them disappearing from a lot of other fields of work.
My whole career was spent in management, so I have never belonged to a union, but I realize the importance of a balanced labor/management system.

Unfortunately, it now reflects that the things that once made our country great have become selfish, spiteful institutions, each out to destroy the other for money and power.

Labor/management
Political parties

And even religions.

As the saying goes, all good things must come to an end.
 

Mainstreet

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My whole career was spent in management, so I have never belonged to a union, but I realize the importance of a balanced labor/management system.

Unfortunately, it now reflects that the things that once made our country great have become selfish, spiteful institutions, each out to destroy the other for money and power.

Labor/management
Political parties

And even religions.

As the saying goes, all good things must come to an end.

Sad but true.
 

AZCrazy

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Once someone turns 18 they should be allowed to get a job. No question. Doesn't mean the NBA is required to hire them. They should be able to set their own internal parameters for hiring whomever they want. If they want to require a college degree, they should be able to. The kids can join another pro league if they want, or do something else if college isn't for them. Ultimately the league will do whatever is in the league's own best interest. Their internal competition with each other over the last generation has led them to start taking younger and younger kids just to stay level with each other. The quality of play got to be so bad after a decade of this, around 2000-2004, that it became common for NBA scores to have dipped into the 70s and 60s routinely. They came up with the one and done idea which didn't do much except make a joke of college basketball.

The best system is to have a developmental or minor league onto which a team can stash a couple players, and have it be a developmental eight team league or something like that, through which players can progress if they are able. If someone is really not a college candidate for academic or financial reasons, they can come out of high school and try out for the minor league. If someone is more a traditional collegiate student athlete, they can sign into college and play there for at least three years. They get an education, and to learn the game as well and showcase their skills, at no charge to them. It will also monumentally improve the collegiate game, make it so college coaches don't have to recruit an entirely new team every year and try to brazenly outbid each other for one year talent. If a player wants to come out after high school and is good enough, he can. If he wants to come out but isn't good enough, he has an option. If someone is a college player, the world is their oyster too. The NBA gets all the good players in the end anyway, and the NCAA doesn't have clowns pretending to be students.
 

AZCrazy

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My whole career was spent in management, so I have never belonged to a union, but I realize the importance of a balanced labor/management system.

Unfortunately, it now reflects that the things that once made our country great have become selfish, spiteful institutions, each out to destroy the other for money and power.

Labor/management
Political parties

And even religions.

As the saying goes, all good things must come to an end.

Hopefully, with the hearts and minds of good men, they are replaced by other good things.
 

BC867

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Hopefully, with the hearts and minds of good men, they are replaced by other good things.
Is that even possible? The three power situations I mentioned have been ingrained within our development for all 242 years.

It would take literally blowing up our systems and starting over. That, in itself, would make our bankrupt country susceptible to takeover, as much as we don't want to think about it.

The billions of dollars that we owe China alone put us at risk. They could pull the plug anytime they wish. If we abandon our systems as having reached the points of failure, there would be nothing holding them back.

With all of these ballplayers collecting millions of dollars in salary, and nothing to back up the money we print, we are living in a Monopoly (the board game) world.
 

Krangodnzr

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One is a dog turd and the other is a cat turd. Both are turds, one just stinks worse.

Bender and Chriss are both awful players. Why so much argument over which one stinks worse? I dislike Chriss more because I hate his attitude, and he is a dumb basketball player (being blunt here). Bender is a timid basketball player, which I hate as well. I like Bender more because it's hard to fix dumb.
 

BC867

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One is a dog turd and the other is a cat turd. Both are turds, one just stinks worse.

Bender and Chriss are both awful players. Why so much argument over which one stinks worse? I dislike Chriss more because I hate his attitude, and he is a dumb basketball player (being blunt here). Bender is a timid basketball player, which I hate as well. I like Bender more because it's hard to fix dumb.
Which is why I have referred to "less worse" as unacceptable in making a decision.

I hope that Ariza can fulfill the power position, but I also hope that management keeps looking for a permanent solution at PF.

And I certainly hope that the choice is no longer based on either/or Chris/Bender.
 

Krangodnzr

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Which is why I have referred to "less worse" as unacceptable in making a decision.

I hope that Ariza can fulfill the power position, but I also hope that management keeps looking for a permanent solution at PF.

And I certainly hope that the choice is no longer based on either/or Chris/Bender.

I think it's hard to tell honestly. Less worse? I'd say Bender because he can shoot the 3 and plays better defense. And I don't buy the advanced stats argument, I've watched both, Chriss is an awful defender and awful overall player.

I mean Chriss led the leagues in missed dunk %. I think he's moving into my list of least favorite Suns ever.
 

Finito

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Listen im a proud union member and have been for years but can we please keep that kind of stuff to where it belongs on this board and get back to talking about how much Chriss sucks.
 

DevonCardsFan

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I'd be happy with this. A 3 and D player. Plus he rebounds a bit. :cool:

Yes and Bender has above average D and can hit it deep, that's his ceiling. Anyone wanting more will be disappoined, he could fill a valuable role as a stretch 4 bench guy, rotating with Ariza and giving some size when needed to the 4. He will never live to we're he was picked at, but that whole draft class was trash.
 

BC867

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Yes and Bender has above average D and can hit it deep, that's his ceiling. Anyone wanting more will be disappoined, he could fill a valuable role as a stretch 4 bench guy, rotating with Ariza and giving some size when needed to the 4. He will never live to we're he was picked at, but that whole draft class was trash.
This is probably our best hope. Ariza -- hold his own in his new position. Bender -- decent in spurts off the bench. Chriss - buh bye.

If we add a distributing lead Point Guard (leaving our other good distributors at other positions, rather than depending on one to lead), and if Jackson comes through at SF, we'll be in good shape to go for the playoffs.
 

BC867

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Listen im a proud union member and have been for years but can we please keep that kind of stuff to where it belongs on this board and get back to talking about how much Chriss sucks.
If you mean 'on this thread", yes it has strayed.

But the management/union relationship certainly is a factor on a basketball board regarding recruiting.
 

Mainstreet

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Yes and Bender has above average D and can hit it deep, that's his ceiling. Anyone wanting more will be disappoined, he could fill a valuable role as a stretch 4 bench guy, rotating with Ariza and giving some size when needed to the 4. He will never live to we're he was picked at, but that whole draft class was trash.

I'm not sure if it is Bender's ceiling because he is still so young but it looks that way at the moment.

The NBA is so instant gratification anymore. I do not like to use age as a reason in a discussion but he is still only 20. When I reached 20 I was not anywhere near my ceiling. LOL
 

devilalum

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I'm not sure if it is Bender's ceiling because he is still so young but it looks that way at the moment.

The NBA is so instant gratification anymore. I do not like to use age as a reason in a discussion but he is still only 20. When I reached 20 I was not anywhere near my ceiling. LOL

Bridges is 21. He wouldn't have even been drafted when he was Bender's age. Last year Bridges was an average college player. This past season he exploded.

Bender may never be anything but it is still early to be calling time of death.
 

JCSunsfan

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Bridges is 21. He wouldn't have even been drafted when he was Bender's age. Last year Bridges was an average college player. This past season he exploded.

Bender may never be anything but it is still early to be calling time of death.
We ought to bite the bullet and send Bender to the G-League to develop like he needs to. The young man got moved up too quickly.
 

devilalum

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Bridges is 21. He wouldn't have even been drafted when he was Bender's age. Last year Bridges was an average college player. This past season he exploded.

Bender may never be anything but it is still early to be calling time of death.

Ironically there is currently another thread where we are discussing the draft. If Bender had signed with a top notch college program and spent 3 seasons learning the game and gaining confidence he might be a lot more NBA ready at this point just like M Bridges.
 

Mainstreet

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Bridges is 21. He wouldn't have even been drafted when he was Bender's age. Last year Bridges was an average college player. This past season he exploded.

Bender may never be anything but it is still early to be calling time of death.

I thinks this demonstrates the point. A lot of past stars who were not drafted until they were out of college.
 

slinslin

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Ironically there is currently another thread where we are discussing the draft. If Bender had signed with a top notch college program and spent 3 seasons learning the game and gaining confidence he might be a lot more NBA ready at this point just like M Bridges.

or he might have gotten exposed and not be in the NBA in the first place

How can you be confident that Bender would have fared any better in college than in the NBA?
 

slinslin

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One is a dog turd and the other is a cat turd. Both are turds, one just stinks worse.

Bender and Chriss are both awful players. Why so much argument over which one stinks worse? I dislike Chriss more because I hate his attitude, and he is a dumb basketball player (being blunt here). Bender is a timid basketball player, which I hate as well. I like Bender more because it's hard to fix dumb.

Chriss is the dumb one? Listen to his interviews.

Also Chriss is not the one who passes up a wide open layup when he is alone under the basket for a 3pt shot.

Also Bender has the highest turnover% on the Suns behind only Chandler, Payton and Monroe which is astounding considering 99% of his offense consists of just standing on the 3pt line.
Seems like strong indication to me that Bender is the dumb one.

The whole Bender is a smart player, Chriss is a dumb player is a narrative that is completely driven by prejudice.
 
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