Brady=No Suspension

[Russ Smith]

If Goodell was so concerned about the integrity of the game, he would have informed all playoff teams that they had received a report on under inflated balls, and would be checking this closely game day.

But no, rather than do that, they decided to run a sting operation.

Brilliant!, as we say.

I actually agree with that but I think he did it to make an example of the Pats.

He figured if he issued a warning they'd just stop for a bit and then go back to doing it, so he wanted to catch them red handed. He did, but even that hasn't stuck beyond the draft picks.

 

[SO91]

So you think the difference in weight of the balls was entirely by chance? And that a Patriot employee taking the game balls of an OPPONENT isn't a problem?

That's why the NFL had such a problem with his IMO, because the guy had the balls for BOTH teams. He probably just deflated the Pats balls but he had the OPPORTUNITY to mess with both teams game balls.

What if he'd intentionally tampered with the balls of the opponent, and then The Pats casually go to the refs before the game and report they think the other team is using non regulation game balls?

I'm sure there was a vendetta angle here because of past cheating with the Pats, that's human nature and maybe Goodell was wrong to do that.

But it's just bizarre to me that people actually believe that guy took the balls for both teams and wasn't doing something wrong.

There's a big difference between having the opportunity to mess with the balls, and actually tampering with the opponents balls. I get the sentiment, but the NFL shouldn't be punishing for things a team MIGHT be able to do.

 

[Cardsfanstl]

That is pure hyperbole though.

You urinate in a cup and test it for drugs. There really isn't a "you drug test me the wrong way" argument to make.

Urinating in a cup is one aspect of the test. How the sample is handled after urinating in the cup is the key. Did the person(s) handling the samples document everything according to procedures and is it verified? A lawyer finds one little mistake made in the procedure and it could invalidate the whole test whether the player was smoking pot everyday or not. Thus the league would have no grounds for suspension then.

 

[GuernseyCard]

But they can't have such a policy, it's not explicit enough. The Pats lawyers would have argued the definition of cooperate. That's the whole point, if you can't legally compel someone to give you evidence, its' very tough to prove things.

There is always a way using lawyers to argue semantics to get around something worded that way.

I'd take my chances on that wording in court.

"Cooperate" has a common sense test, and all information pertinent to an investigation would suffice as an argument to a court.

 

[MadCardDisease]

It was really a dumb controversy to begin with.

The Patriots organization got penalized harder than I expected for this.

If the NFL had given Brady a suspension that made sense like 1 game then this would have been over and done with months ago.

 

[Russ Smith]

There's a big difference between having the opportunity to mess with the balls, and actually tampering with the opponents balls. I get the sentiment, but the NFL shouldn't be punishing for things a team MIGHT be able to do.

Sure but there's also a big difference between how do you know he wasn't making sure the balls were not OVER inflated like they were before, and realizing the guy had the balls for both teams.

If he was just making sure the Pats game balls were good why did he take both teams game balls?

There are a bunch of possible explanations, maybe they were all together and it was easier to take all of them. Maybe he thought it only took the Pats balls it would be obvious. I just don't see an innocent reason to take the balls against NFL rules, clearly IMO the intent was to tamper with some of the balls.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

It's not a matter of fairness. I think anyone with half a brain can conclude based on the ball boys text messages and destroyed phone, that Brady was behind the matter.

There were no text message to ball boys on the game. This has been revealed to be false information.

 

[Bert]

People forget that the NFL has zero evidence. Obviously, look at the court decision today. Everyone can sit here and assume Brady is guilty but from a legal standpoint the NFL has nothing except the fact that he wouldn't turn over his cell phone.

Do people forget that Brady is a human being? I wouldn't turn over my PERSONAL cell phone either no matter what my employer said. The NFL isn't the Federal government or some all powerful entity (even though Roger thinks they are) they have no right to invade his privacy like that, regardless of how deflated their balls get. Brady I'm sure, like all men, has private text from his wife, and his friends, lawyer, accountant, possibly his doctors, and other personal buisness matters. We all know that nothing is ever really deleted. So he turns over the cell phone and they find nothing but then 3 months later, naughty pics from his wife magically appear on the internet, (how much would naughty pictures of Gisele be worth to someone? Millions?)

I'm just saying, if I were him and the NFL said, hey we need to go through your cell phone, I would have told them to urinate vertically upon a rope as well.

I know people hate Brady and the Patriots, but Roger has nothing here and if you dont believe me do you believe the judge? Whether it's a court of law or a suspension hearing, the burden of proof is ALWAYS on the accuser. The NFL has nothing, and they are acting like spoiled little kids who aren't getting their way. Even a lot of the "evidence" that some of you and other fans on the internet THINK they have, they really dont have because that stuff isn't true! Just like the original story that the Colts DB had brought the ball to the official and complained, that didn't happen. That was an outright lie by someone in the NFL to cover the fact that they were basically running a sting operation. Like Chris said, the text message to the ball boys, that was also revealed to be a big fat lie. People like to vilify Brady as this big liar, Roger is no better.

IN MY OPINION, by not letting this drop, they are doing more damage to the NFL because people are so freaking sick of this and they just want it to go away, now 2 seasons are going to be tainted by the constant discussion of this. Ridiculous. You lost, let it go, check your balls more often.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I actually agree with that but I think he did it to make an example of the Pats.

He figured if he issued a warning they'd just stop for a bit and then go back to doing it, so he wanted to catch them red handed. He did, but even that hasn't stuck beyond the draft picks.

So... more concerned with catching them red handed then the actual integrity of the playoff game being played to an audience of millions.

As said... Brilliant!

 

[Russ Smith]

So... more concerned with catching them red handed then the actual integrity of the playoff game being played to an audience of millions.

As said... Brilliant!

Yes I said I agreed with you.

I think the reason he wanted to get the pats goes back to the integrity angle but more to the point that he thinks they're troublemakers.

But in this case he chose to go for the big flashy I caught you instead of just making it clear they were going to check so that the Pats didn't do it.

It's like DUI checkpoints, some people complain about them endlessly. Why tip off drunk drivers, because it's better to persuade people to not drive drunk than try and catch them

 

[Cardsfanstl]

People forget that the NFL has zero evidence. Obviously, look at the court decision today. Everyone can sit here and assume Brady is guilty but from a legal standpoint the NFL has nothing except the fact that he wouldn't turn over his cell phone.

Do people forget that Brady is a human being? I wouldn't turn over my PERSONAL cell phone either no matter what my employer said. The NFL isn't the Federal government or some all powerful entity (even though Roger thinks they are) they have no right to invade his privacy like that, regardless of how deflated their balls get. Brady I'm sure, like all men, has private text from his wife, and his friends, lawyer, accountant, possibly his doctors, and other personal buisness matters. We all know that nothing is ever really deleted. So he turns over the cell phone and they find nothing but then 3 months later, naughty pics from his wife magically appear on the internet, (how much would naughty pictures of Gisele be worth to someone? Millions?)

I'm just saying, if I were him and the NFL said, hey we need to go through your cell phone, I would have told them to urinate vertically upon a rope as well.

I know people hate Brady and the Patriots, but Roger has nothing here and if you dont believe me do you believe the judge? Whether it's a court of law or a suspension hearing, the burden of proof is ALWAYS on the accuser. The NFL has nothing, and they are acting like spoiled little kids who aren't getting their way.

IN MY OPINION, by not letting this drop, they are doing more damage to the NFL because people are so freaking sick of this and they just want it to go away, now 2 seasons are going to be tainted by the constant discussion of this. Ridiculous. You lost, let it go, check your balls more often.

The cell phone I somewhat see your argument but look at it this way. Some of the Pats employees cell phones they looked at did have some references to Brady wanting the balls a certain way regarding air pressure. That is why the league wanted to see the phone and then he threw it away. So it looks like he was hiding something in the leagues eyes.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

The cell phone I somewhat see your argument but look at it this way. Some of the Pats employees cell phones they looked at did have some references to Brady wanting the balls a certain way regarding air pressure. That is why the league wanted to see the phone and then he threw it away. So it looks like he was hiding something in the leagues eyes.

No that is false and was a leak to the media that was proven to never be true.

There were zero texts concerning the game where the deflate happened.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

So now a player suspended by the commish for a failed drug test can just sue the league and have his suspension vacated because he did not like the way the test was done.

I am sorry. In my opinion this cuts the commisher's legs off at the knees regarding player suspensions.

When you do a job as poorly as he has, you deserve to have your legs cut off at the knees in my opinion.

 

[Bert]

The cell phone I somewhat see your argument but look at it this way. Some of the Pats employees cell phones they looked at did have some references to Brady wanting the balls a certain way regarding air pressure. That is why the league wanted to see the phone and then he threw it away. So it looks like he was hiding something in the leagues eyes.

That is totally untrue. Like Chris said, there's no evidence of this whatsoever. Not your fault, it was just a false story that got put on the internet and presented by irresponsible media members as fact.

Just like the NFL's original lie that the Colts CB brought them the ball and complained. THAT PLAYER, himself, personally said: "THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN." The NFL has been lying from the beginning. Doesn't make Brady innocent, but how can anyone believe anything Roger says at this point?

I'm not saying Brady or the Pats did nothing wrong, but the NFL is a bunch of hypocrites. Look at all the threats they are making against the makers of that Concussion movie. They are not big fans of the truth.

 

[Rivercard]

There were zero texts concerning the game where the deflate happened.

The balls were being tampered with for a reason, and this wasn't an isolated incedent. The deflation was done secretly for a reason. This has been going on for a period of time for a reason. IMO the Patriots organization repeatedly embraces a culture of operating outside the rules, at a level unmatched by any other team, in order to gain ongoing competitive advantages. I support the NFL in appealing this ruling.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

The balls were being tampered with for a reason, and this wasn't an isolated incedent. The deflation was done secretly for a reason. This has been going on for a period of time for a reason. IMO the Patriots organization has repeatedly embraced a culture of operating outside the rules, at a level unmatched by any other team, in order to gain ongoing competitive advantages. I support the NFL in appealing this ruling.

So is your issue with Brady or with the team? Are you trying to punish the team by wanting Brady suspended?

 

[kerouac9]

This is dumb. The judge didn't make any ruling on the facts of the case. Anyone who's saying that balls were never deflated can't point to this ruling to support the idea. I think it's pretty clear at this point that the ball boys HABITUALLY deflated balls for Brady — with or without his direct knowledge or instruction every single week. If he'd been playing with limp balls for the last 14 weeks or 14 years, why would he send a particular message on game day?

Goddell got reamed by the judge for going outside the outlines system of justice in the CBA without letting Brady understand what the potential consequences were. That's wrong. There is a defined punishment for tampering with equipment.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

The funny thing is at the beginning of this I started completely on the "Cheaters!" side but after actually following it through court and reading the aforementioned excellent pieces by Mike Florio, the NFL just doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Even the science supports that the balls could have deflated to that point naturally. I mean they have jack and crap and they just kept doubling down on it.

 

[Rivercard]

So is your issue with Brady or with the team? Are you trying to punish the team by wanting Brady suspended?

Both. I'm a Brady fan, but I think it's naive to think he was not in on these particular shenanigans, or that noone higher in the organization than the "ball boys" knew what has happening.

 

[fatosber]

I think the Pats got away with this once more. If an organization tampers with the balls to have some sort of an advantage, I don't see how that is not a big deal in some people's eyes.

If this was another team that did this, another player who is not Tom Brady, or maybe another sport altogether, we have to wonder if the outcome would have been the same.

Truth is, wether you think its a big deal or not, this was an 'attempt' at cheating from an organization that has done so in the past. The Colts lost that game, and we will never know if the balls had a role to play. In my books, you just don't do that and get away with it without losing the game.

So yes, utterly disappointed that Brady and the Pats got away unscathed in my opinion, and that once more a culture of cheating was rewarded.






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[TJ]

I think the Pats got away with this once more. If an organization tampers with the balls to have some sort of an advantage, I don't see how that is not a big deal in some people's eyes.

If this was another team that did this, another player who is not Tom Brady, or maybe another sport altogether, we have to wonder if the outcome would have been the same.

Truth is, wether you think its a big deal or not, this was an 'attempt' at cheating from an organization that has done so in the past. The Colts lost that game, and we will never know if the balls had a role to play. In my books, you just don't do that and get away with it without losing the game.

So yes, utterly disappointed that Brady and the Pats got away unscathed in my opinion, and that once more a culture of cheating was rewarded.






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The Patriots lost two picks, including a first rounder, and a million bucks. It did not come away unscathed.

 

[GuernseyCard]

The balls were being tampered with for a reason, and this wasn't an isolated incedent. The deflation was done secretly for a reason. This has been going on for a period of time for a reason. IMO the Patriots organization repeatedly embraces a culture of operating outside the rules, at a level unmatched by any other team, in order to gain ongoing competitive advantages. I support the NFL in appealing this ruling.

Well, the league can expect another court to rule that their process for ajudicating discipline is arbitrary and capricious.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

This is dumb. The judge didn't make any ruling on the facts of the case. Anyone who's saying that balls were never deflated can't point to this ruling to support the idea. I think it's pretty clear at this point that the ball boys HABITUALLY deflated balls for Brady — with or without his direct knowledge or instruction every single week. If he'd been playing with limp balls for the last 14 weeks or 14 years, why would he send a particular message on game day?

Goddell got reamed by the judge for going outside the outlines system of justice in the CBA without letting Brady understand what the potential consequences were. That's wrong. There is a defined punishment for tampering with equipment.

The judge actually discussed at length during the testimony about the how the punishment was for this game and repeatedly asked for evidence for this game and the NFL had none.

You can't punish people for conspiracy without proof.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Both. I'm a Brady fan, but I think it's naive to think he was not in on these particular shenanigans, or that noone higher in the organization than the "ball boys" knew what has happening.

Okay so there is no proof that Brady had anything to do with it.

So what are you basing this idea he should be suspended for 25% of his work year on? Your belief?

 

[TJ]

This is dumb. The judge didn't make any ruling on the facts of the case. Anyone who's saying that balls were never deflated can't point to this ruling to support the idea. I think it's pretty clear at this point that the ball boys HABITUALLY deflated balls for Brady — with or without his direct knowledge or instruction every single week. If he'd been playing with limp balls for the last 14 weeks or 14 years, why would he send a particular message on game day?

Goddell got reamed by the judge for going outside the outlines system of justice in the CBA without letting Brady understand what the potential consequences were. That's wrong. There is a defined punishment for tampering with equipment.

What facts? Using loose language such as "generally aware" is not factual, but rather speculative. Wells' inability to find conclusive evidence against Brady left the league vulnerable from the beginning.