Brady=No Suspension

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No that is false and was a leak to the media that was proven to never be true.

There were zero texts concerning the game where the deflate happened.

Was the "deflator" made up as well? I openly admit I got bored of this and quit paying attention.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

In the video taping scandal, teams were officially warned and then the PATS decided to simply ignore the admonition. They were punished and quite rightly so.

In this case the league decided to keep a report alleging deflation of balls to itself and run a sting operation.

Concern for the integrity of the game was clearly shown in the former case, and ignored in the latter.

If it's a rule all teams and players should know it. There should be no need for warning.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You can tell I was on a plane all day without access to the net.

 

[BigRedRage]

You can tell I was on a plane all day without access to the net.

You post so sporadically you must have a ton of flier miles!

I only noticed because your username stands out to me and I only see it here and there

Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk

 

[Carolinacacti]

Would this happen in the NBA ? NFL at fault period...............

 

[slanidrac16]

The way I see it is this. Goodell believes he is the high and mighty mystic ruler. He fined the Patriots, but that wasn't enough. Then he took a couple of draft picks away. That wasn't enough. Then he went after Brady and tried to take a \ 1/4th of his season away.

He doles out punishments like a soothsayer. I always thought this system of a one man judge , jury and executioner was ridiculous. The best thing to come out of this is that the NFL is going to have to come up with a better system.

If Goodell would have tried to suspend Brady for 1 game he MIGHT have won. But he didn't. And now the pompous ass is going to appeal " for the integrity of the game". He's the big bully that has been slapped in the face.

He is the worse commissioner the NFL has ever had. As somebody on this forum said , a monkey could run this league and it would prosper.

Did Brady have a role in this , no doubt. Was it the first time? He's probably had the balls inflated to his liking for his entire career. But again, if 1lb psi meant that much to "the integrity of the game" then I think the NFL should have secured the balls a LONG time ago. And why/how did Goodell dream up a 4 game suspension. Why not ban him for life?

I'm putting this one to bed. It's time for football !

 

[Cardiac]

I think all this appeal stuff is BS. This isn't the criminal justice system. They don't need evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. If they think someone did something that is conduct detrimental to the league, they should be able to suspend them. Anyone who thinks Brady was not behind the deflated footballs is kidding themselves. No ballboy would alter the footballs without direct instruction from the QB. Many former QB's have said as much.

Fully agree.

Tell that to Pete Rose. It's about the integrity of the game.

Cosign

I think this is a good news bad news scenario. Maybe 4 games was too much I have no idea. Maybe it's good that absolute power doesn't exist with Goodell.

But in the end is there a plausible reason why the Pats employee had the footballs for both his team and the opponent, violating NFL rules, that doesn't involve some form of cheating? That to me was the whole case, and as has been said it's preposterous to suggest that Tom Brady wasn't involved, they would not have employees tampering with game balls without the star QB of the team knowing they were being tampered with.

The balls were tampered with, Brady knew about it and probably pushed for it, but the NFL couldn't prove it because Brady refused to cooperate.

I suspect the NFL just chose the wrong punishment, suspend him for X games for refusing to cooperate and it would have stuck.

No room for common sense in a courtroom, SMH.

Exactly. the Patriots culture is why we have millions of lawyers, and hundreds of thousands of regulations.

The Patriots take something that goes against the spirit of the law/rule, break it, then lawyer up to say "well, it isn't written EXACTLY that way", even though everyone knows what the intent is.

Yes, yes and yes.

While that's not a bad idea I think the problem is that the workplace is not a courtroom and many players and teams will get away with a lot more activity that is detrimental to the league bc the evidence isn't always 100% concrete.

While I agree that goodell is often far too heavy handed and inconsistent, I think EVERY sentient being alive (including pats fans) KNOWS Brady is guilty of cheating here. And it's undeniable that his rep, the pats (Super Bowl champs) and the league have been tarnished by all this. Anytime anyone or team is caught cheating it lessens the integrity of the league. For those that want to brush this off as "pish, a few psi" think how mad you were when you found out the crooked ref ran a couple suns v spurs playoff games. It matters.

So in my opinion this comes down to cheating. It shouldn't be allowed. But punishment needs to not be arbitrary, so as to avoid these circuses. Maybe it's as simple as: these are league rules, you violate them it is cheating, cheating (regardless of type of infraction) carries the same harsh punishment of X number of games suspension and loss of X number of draft picks. You cheat, you're punished. Plain and simple. It may be harsh in some circumstances it may be light in others, but it's always predictable and it hopefully eliminates cheating. Other things like substance abuse (note, not PEDs because that's cheating and falls under the prior rules) or domestic violence could still be dealt with on a case by case basis because they aren't cheating, they are conduct detrimental to the appeal of the league. But cheaters are cheaters, regardless of the level of cheating. And who is to say that a few psi don't make a difference? Remember tony sacca? We took him with a 2nd round pick. His hands were too small for nfl footballs. Maybe if he took out a third of the air in a football he could've been an NFL QB. Where do you draw the line on the amount of air you can let out? A rule is a rule. Cheaters should be smacked down hard. While cheating is not as morally reprehensible as striking a woman it is more directly impactful on the product of the nfl. Yes I don't ant wife beaters on my team, but a dude beating a woman doesn't impact the integrity and outcome of the game. Nor does smoking pot. Changing a ball does or it wouldn't be done by cheater Brady. He will always be a cheater in my mind, and likely many more. Even if he didn't give a crap, it taints the nfl.

I couldn't find a "Mic Drop" emoticon, but this post deserves one.

This is dumb. The judge didn't make any ruling on the facts of the case. Anyone who's saying that balls were never deflated can't point to this ruling to support the idea. I think it's pretty clear at this point that the ball boys HABITUALLY deflated balls for Brady — with or without his direct knowledge or instruction every single week. If he'd been playing with limp balls for the last 14 weeks or 14 years, why would he send a particular message on game day?

Goddell got reamed by the judge for going outside the outlines system of justice in the CBA without letting Brady understand what the potential consequences were. That's wrong. There is a defined punishment for tampering with equipment.

Agreed.

Or as Chris Carter says "get you a fall guy". Well Brady did, 2 equipment peeps & they were suspended by the team. Lol

We all know the truth!!!

And there it is, (nailed it Bucky) what is the overall culture in the NFL today. "If you ain't cheating you ain't trying!" I HATE that thought process, even if it does make me naïve and foolish Shane.

 

[AZCrazy]

It's funny that people would presume that Goodell had some sort of witch hunt he wanted to go on against Brady. I'm sure the league would rather have done anything than attack it's own Golden Boy reigning champion. Nobody wins in this scenario.

And it does seem like Goodell can't win. If he undersuspends, like with Ray Rice, people lose their minds. If he over suspends, the same happens. Without every contingency written into the CBA, the commissioner is forced to make up a solution and justify it. And it's hard to be consistent if every case gets cut down by an arbitrator after the fact. No one really knows where the line is in that case.

 

[TheHopToad]

the commissioner is forced to make up a solution and justify it.

The problem here is that he also made up the "facts". The league fabricated some allegations and embellished others, then Goodell as judge, jury, and executioner handed out punishment without regard to fairness or objectivity.

Total witch hunt. Any other team/QB would have received a minor fine and a warning.

 

[Cardiac]

The problem here is that he also made up the "facts". The league fabricated some allegations and embellished others, then Goodell as judge, jury, and executioner handed out punishment without regard to fairness or objectivity.

Total witch hunt. Any other team/QB would have received a minor fine and a warning.

This just doesn't make sense to me, what's Goodell's end game for persecuting the Patriots. You know the SB champs and an owner that he had a very friendly relationship with. PR nightmare and tarnishing the SB champs rep because he ..........I just don't get it. No motive comes to mind for me.

Maybe a bunch of owners have contacted Goodell and told him they are sick and tired of the Patriots cheating ways and since all the owners are his boss he took action.

 

[Hoop Head]

Here is a link about Green Bay messing with the inflation of a ball, no one is calling for their heads. This was a witch hunt against the Pats and Brady. They are a dynasty which pisses off a lot of people, just like when the Cowboys won 3 titles in 4 years in the 90's. The majority of football fans hated them, just like with the Patriots now.

http://YourTeamCheats.com/GB#Inflategate-2008


Here is more info on this current "deflategate", read it and compare it to a case like the Hawks who pumped fake crowd noise into the arena for a competitive advantage. They were docked a 5th round pick compared to the Pats losing a 1st & 3rd round pick in addition to a 1 million dollar fine plus the suspension of Brady.

http://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-deflategate

 

[AZ Native]

This is much to do about nothing. Haters, gonna hate. Look what happened after the footballs were checked. Patriots win. The NFL had no evidence, NONE. Case closed. BTW I am a Cardinals fan. Deal with it, move on. Let's win the SB this year Cards!!!!!

 

[Shaggy]

I'm pissed at this......

Cause I wanted them to wait till next week to make the ruling so I could pick on Brady in the 3 rds of my last 2 FF drafts. I was successful on my first 3 on doing it. Couldn't have waited till next week!!! Come on man!

Other then that, I could careless about all this now. Just stop talking about on on TV and radio. Sick of hearing it really.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

Of all the people to stick it to the NFL...

It has to be the fricking Patriots, and their arrogant, douche, smugmaster QB.

 

[Sunburn]

For those that say Tom Brady cheated.... Tom has stated publicly his preference for footballs at the minimum allowed pressure. How do we know his deflators didn't make a mistake that day and overdeflate? If someone could answer this question I'd appreciate it.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Was the "deflator" made up as well? I openly admit I got bored of this and quit paying attention.

Not sure about that one to be honest. It never came up again.

There was so much deliberate misinformation released to the press. The facts though are:

Only some of the balls were deflated, not all.

All of the deflations were in the realm of naturally occurring deflation due to weather conditions.

The NFL had no tools or regulations in place to prevent over inflation or under inflation. Thus many teams were altering the balls within the allowed range.


With all the information at hand, here is a completely possible scenario:

Absent of controls, the Patriots began doing what many teams do (including the Packers who admitted doing it) and that is alter the footballs but to keep them within the legal range.

As part of the above, Brady was asked at some point how he likes his footballs and he said he likes them softer. Beyond that he never gave specific instructions to deflate to a certain PSI or to go beyond the legal limits. Brady likely has no idea what the rules are on football inflation

The equipment guy routinely deflated some footballs with the intent of being on the low end of the allowed range, as the majority of footballs tested were within the range. However, he just guessed at where he was at by feel rather than use a tool.

On this game in particular, balls were deflated down to an approximation and a couple of them went just a bit beyond that either by haste and lack of tools by the equipment guy or by naturally occurring deflation due to atmospheric conditions.


So basically in the above scenario the Patriots are basically doing what many teams do and that is adjusting equipment to maximize their advantage within the allowed range.

This is common in every sport from golf (ball dynamics), to hockey (goalie pad length), to soccer (cleat length) where the equipment has a range of customization to suit the user.

Doing it to the football itself is certainly shady. There is nothing new to being shady in New England though, which strives to get any competitive advantage it can find.

New England understands it is pushing the boundaries yet again so it doesn't fight the punishment of the commissioner for exceeding them.

Brady has little involvement in this beyond his initial feedback and being one of the end users of the equipment.

 

[Garthshort]

If they ever make a movie about this, they have a real life perfect ending. It has been reported that Robert Kraft was at a party in the Hamptons this (Labor Day) weekend, and was seen talking to none other than Judge Berman. You can't make this stuff up, though the Patriots spin doctors say that it was just a coincidence. All I will say, some party, some coincidence.

 

[AZCrazy]

Everyone saw the envelope passing between them too. Oh well. Let's just hope the balls are kept under close watch from now on. Maybe Brady's delicate little hands won't be so accurate with the grown mens' ball.

 

[Russ Smith]

Not sure about that one to be honest. It never came up again.

There was so much deliberate misinformation released to the press. The facts though are:

Only some of the balls were deflated, not all.

All of the deflations were in the realm of naturally occurring deflation due to weather conditions.

The NFL had no tools or regulations in place to prevent over inflation or under inflation. Thus many teams were altering the balls within the allowed range.


With all the information at hand, here is a completely possible scenario:

Absent of controls, the Patriots began doing what many teams do (including the Packers who admitted doing it) and that is alter the footballs but to keep them within the legal range.

As part of the above, Brady was asked at some point how he likes his footballs and he said he likes them softer. Beyond that he never gave specific instructions to deflate to a certain PSI or to go beyond the legal limits. Brady likely has no idea what the rules are on football inflation

The equipment guy routinely deflated some footballs with the intent of being on the low end of the allowed range, as the majority of footballs tested were within the range. However, he just guessed at where he was at by feel rather than use a tool.

On this game in particular, balls were deflated down to an approximation and a couple of them went just a bit beyond that either by haste and lack of tools by the equipment guy or by naturally occurring deflation due to atmospheric conditions.


So basically in the above scenario the Patriots are basically doing what many teams do and that is adjusting equipment to maximize their advantage within the allowed range.

This is common in every sport from golf (ball dynamics), to hockey (goalie pad length), to soccer (cleat length) where the equipment has a range of customization to suit the user.

Doing it to the football itself is certainly shady. There is nothing new to being shady in New England though, which strives to get any competitive advantage it can find.

New England understands it is pushing the boundaries yet again so it doesn't fight the punishment of the commissioner for exceeding them.

Brady has little involvement in this beyond his initial feedback and being one of the end users of the equipment.

I thought a main point of the earlier claims by Pats fans was that the gauge the Pats used was not calibrated the same as the gauge the NFL uses so they would never get the same PSI for the same ball? If true, that implies the guy wasn't just guessing on feel, he had a gauge that he put into the ball, it read the PSI, and then he could let air out, with the gauge in, to see the PSI as it went down. Pats fans were contending that the NFL had several gauges that all gave different measures so it was impossible for a team to be sure if they did them close to the low or high end because you never knew which gauge the NFL would use.

As for the balls deflating due to weather, did the balls for the other team do it too? By a similar %, I was under the impression the answer was no.

 

[oaken1]

This is just another case of the Pats being the favored golden boys.....

in bountygate,...there was no evidence..ZERO...that Sean Payton had any knowledge what so ever about what was going on,....but he was banned from the league for a year..."because a HC should know what is going on with his team at all times"...... but billicheat,...who already has a history....never gets mentioned in this entire issue,...is he exempt from knowing what is going on with his team at all times?? Apparently so.

the terms for NFL discipline were negotiated and agreed upon in collective bargaining...this judges ruling basically just nullified the agreement between the players and the league...precedent has been set,...it need not be adhered to
what value does a collective bargaining agreement have if the league cannot enforce it?

Tom Brady is a pro football player...if he does not like the way the NFL runs their league,...he should take his whiney ass to Canada and play in their league,...if he does not want to move to Canada,..well,...there is also the Arena League..but if he is going to play in the NFL he should abide by and be bound by the rules of the NFL....which he agreed to.

 

[Matt L]

Did anyone read the ESPN story about the Patriots spygate?

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

 

[Russ Smith]

Did anyone read the ESPN story about the Patriots spygate?

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

Yes I was wondering when someone was going to link that and then maybe explain to us again how this was a witch hunt to get Brady and not that Goodell realized he had a problem by not going further with Spygate and tried to make up for it this time around.

If half of that story is true Goodell should be fired, he had more than enough evidence to REALLY hammer the Pats then. that punishment seemed severe at the time but knowing how much evidence they had of how systemic this cheating was by the Pats, they didn't go nearly far enough IMO. They should have taken draft picks for several years and Kraft should have been HEAVILY fined.

 

[SO91]

I thought a main point of the earlier claims by Pats fans was that the gauge the Pats used was not calibrated the same as the gauge the NFL uses so they would never get the same PSI for the same ball? If true, that implies the guy wasn't just guessing on feel, he had a gauge that he put into the ball, it read the PSI, and then he could let air out, with the gauge in, to see the PSI as it went down. Pats fans were contending that the NFL had several gauges that all gave different measures so it was impossible for a team to be sure if they did them close to the low or high end because you never knew which gauge the NFL would use.

As for the balls deflating due to weather, did the balls for the other team do it too? By a similar %, I was under the impression the answer was no.

I'll have to find the link again, but the officials measured the Pats balls at the start of halftime, while they waited till the end to measure the Colts balls. It's why they only measured 4 instead of all of them. They ran out of time. The temperature and time differences would account for the discrepancy you mentioned.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'll have to find the link again, but the officials measured the Pats balls at the start of halftime, while they waited till the end to measure the Colts balls. It's why they only measured 4 instead of all of them. They ran out of time. The temperature and time differences would account for the discrepancy you mentioned.

I think you can say "could" account but not "would". If you have not read the story ESPN the Magazine has put out I strongly recommend reading it before making the assumption that just because the pats employee had the balls doesn't mean he tampered with them.

This is an organization that was sneaking employees into other teams locker rooms to steal play sheets, it's pretty hard to believe they were going to the lengths they went to to get access to the game balls when they weren't supposed to have them, but that they didn't tamper with them.

 

[SO91]

I think you can say "could" account but not "would". If you have not read the story ESPN the Magazine has put out I strongly recommend reading it before making the assumption that just because the pats employee had the balls doesn't mean he tampered with them.

This is an organization that was sneaking employees into other teams locker rooms to steal play sheets, it's pretty hard to believe they were going to the lengths they went to to get access to the game balls when they weren't supposed to have them, but that they didn't tamper with them.

You're probably right, I should have used 'could' instead of 'would' I'll have to read the ESPN piece soon, but for some reason I just don't trust ESPN as a whole in regards to the NFL. Maybe i'm being irrational, but I don't feel like they're very credible. I'll give it a read though.