Roster Analysis: Cardinals' QBs and RBs

[cgolden]

No chance. McGahee is likely to be cut this offseason just like Edge. He is always hurt and they had another one of their RBs go to the Pro Bowl this year. The team also used an early second round pick on Ray Rice last year and he played well this year.

I wouldn't mind taking a run at McGahee. He's still on 27 years old and is decent out of the backfield. He's not great but I'd rather take him than any of the 30-something options out there.

 

[seesred]

IMO Tim Hightower is smart enough, strong enough and durable enough to be our starter over the next 4-6 years. I hope we resign JJ as he played lights out last year and is a great compliment to Tim.

Matt is our QB of the future and he is young at 25. He has been able to learn from the best at the top of his game. I think he will see a lot of action this year. I do hope that Kurt can stay healthy......But if not I would go with Matt into battle.

GBR
40

 

[Mitch]

The Cards need to stop trying to piecemeal a backfield together with dudes who are not capable... JJ is a nice back in the way he is used today... nothing more. If we was, Whiz would have found the way to use him more.
Same for Hightower... He's a nice back-up... a very nice back-up... but that's it.
We need a guy who is a legit starter and who represents a threat, regardless of the down and distance. We don't need more of the same...

What mystifies me is how after one season you and others have written off Hightower as a starting RB.

These days most teams are using RBs by committee...it's no longer feasible to think one back can take the 16 game pounding. Arrington averaged 6 yards per carry as a change of pace back. What the Cardinals need, assuming they re-sign Arrington is a strong, durable and productive RB who can share the load. I think Foster is going to be a good pro. You don't. Fine.

I also would prefer Shonn Greene of Iowa, but I am predicting he will be off the board by #63. Rashad Jennings of Liberty is a big back with 4.5 speed, maybe he would fit the bill at #63. I think he may be gone by #63 as well. Maybe not. Devin Moore of Wyoming is a 4.3 guy, but only 5-9 192.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

What mystifies me is how after one season you and others have written off Hightower as a starting RB.

These days most teams are using RBs by committee...it's no longer feasible to think one back can take the 16 game pounding. Arrington averaged 6 yards per carry as a change of pace back. What the Cardinals need, assuming they re-sign Arrington is a strong, durable and productive RB who can share the load. I think Foster is going to be a good pro. You don't. Fine.

I also would prefer Shonn Greene of Iowa, but I am predicting he will be off the board by #63. Rashad Jennings of Liberty is a big back with 4.5 speed, maybe he would fit the bill at #63. I think he may be gone by #63 as well. Maybe not. Devin Moore of Wyoming is a 4.3 guy, but only 5-9 192.

Agreed.

If Hightower didn't show you enough as a rookie 5th round pick behind what was below average run blocking offensive line I am not sure what to tell you. Maybe your expectations are a tad out of whack?

I am not saying you shouldn't draft a guy rather high as a contingency plan or to set up a two back rotation but there is more to come from Tim.

Like Matt did his rookie year IMO I think he has shown enough flashes in his to consider you have a gem on your hands. Should you bank on it an pin your season around it? Probably not.

But that doesn't mean he doesn't have the goods.

 

[WildBB]

What mystifies me is how after one season you and others have written off Hightower as a starting RB.

These days most teams are using RBs by committee...it's no longer feasible to think one back can take the 16 game pounding. Arrington averaged 6 yards per carry as a change of pace back. What the Cardinals need, assuming they re-sign Arrington is a strong, durable and productive RB who can share the load. I think Foster is going to be a good pro. You don't. Fine.

I also would prefer Shonn Greene of Iowa, but I am predicting he will be off the board by #63. Rashad Jennings of Liberty is a big back with 4.5 speed, maybe he would fit the bill at #63. I think he may be gone by #63 as well. Maybe not. Devin Moore of Wyoming is a 4.3 guy, but only 5-9 192.

I like the combo of Hightower and Arrington. We can improve there though, BUT I'm not willing to throw a high pick on one unless Wells or Moreno are there. I believe we can continue upgrading the running game by continuing to upgrade the OL. That's my line of thinking right now.

Beatty, Unger or Mack in the 1st.

 

[82CardsGrad]

What mystifies me is how after one season you and others have written off Hightower as a starting RB.

These days most teams are using RBs by committee...it's no longer feasible to think one back can take the 16 game pounding. Arrington averaged 6 yards per carry as a change of pace back. What the Cardinals need, assuming they re-sign Arrington is a strong, durable and productive RB who can share the load. I think Foster is going to be a good pro. You don't. Fine.

I also would prefer Shonn Greene of Iowa, but I am predicting he will be off the board by #63. Rashad Jennings of Liberty is a big back with 4.5 speed, maybe he would fit the bill at #63. I think he may be gone by #63 as well. Maybe not. Devin Moore of Wyoming is a 4.3 guy, but only 5-9 192.

Didn't say Foster won't be "good" pro. I don't see him as the answer for the Cards, and Im not as high on him as you... doesn't mean he won't become a good pro, defined as however you want to define "good"...

I might be wrong on Hightower, and I hope I am as I REALLY like him. However, I don't believe he will make the transition to being more of the offense than he was this past season...
JJ? Good grief... Yes - he improved this year. And? He is who he is... a nice, change of pace option who can only see the field about as much as he did this past season. That's it...

And yes Mitch, rare is the RB who can carry the load going solo for 16 games. I don't believe that back exists anymore... Even Peterson shares the load to an extent with Chester...
However, without a true threat at RB, where on any down from anywhere on the field the defense is required to think about our RB, the Cards will simply be treading water at this position...

 

[Shogun]

I simply don't see Hightower as a quality starting running back. He did alright, but I'd concerned if we were going to give him the bulk of the carries. He's better in the current role.

Anyway, I'd really be surprised if Arian Foster went before the fourth round. I can see the Foster/Forte comparison because that their games are similar. However, Forte was better and had a better season. Forte really helped himself at the Senior Bowl - something Foster missed out on this year due to an injury during SB practice. Losing to carries to Greer (who was the best back on that Vol roster) doesn't look good from an evaluation standpoint. Him working out will be big for him, but I doubt he gets into the 4.4s. He's not that fast. Despite my criticisms, with his all-around skillset he could end up a starter if he learns to run with power and aggression. He models himself after Brian Westbrook and it shows - both good and bad.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I liked Foster in the 2007 season. The guy looks the part but just doesn't produce like he should.Either way, the 2nd round is way too early for him.

 

[Skkorpion]

Everybody is piling on Mitch but I like St. Pierre too.

Nobody in the NFL liked Rich Gannon for many years either. Same with Warren Moon. And Jeff Garcia, I think. How about Joe Theisman? Low draft pick destined to sit behind Bob Greise. Went to Canada instead, won the Grey cup, came back after about 4 years and returned punts for the Skins.

I'm not yet sold on Leinart being our future. We've hashed that over too often. This is about St. Pierre. He might have upside.

How about Kurt Warner? Undrafted in 1994. Couldn't sniff his way onto an NFL roster until 1999 when he was supposed to be a backup. You know all the rest.

Mocking Mitch about St. Pierre may be good fun but the mockers could be wrong.

 

[joeshmo]

Nobody in the NFL liked Rich Gannon for many years either. Same with Warren Moon. And Jeff Garcia, I think. How about Joe Theisman? Low draft pick destined to sit behind Bob Greise. Went to Canada instead, won the Grey cup, came back after about 4 years and returned punts for the Skins.
.

Rich Gannon started out as a DB. Made a fuss about and trade to the Vikings were he started for two years. Was released becuase he tore his shoulder up I think. Started some games in Washington. He took a year off to get healthy and returned to the Chiefs where he was at least a #2 QB where fans were screaming for him to start, they were on a role and AMrty switched to Grbac or Bono forget which and lost their first playoff game. Gannon started the following year.

Then he went to Oakland and ws the #1. But he didnt come out of no where.

We are talking about a 30 year old never been any higher then a 3rd stringer. Not a bunch of guys you listed who at least were starters or #2's for some time. They didnt go straight from #3 to starter at the age of 30.

I would bet all of Shane's ASFN bucks on it.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Everybody is piling on Mitch but I like St. Pierre too.

Nobody in the NFL liked Rich Gannon for many years either. Same with Warren Moon. And Jeff Garcia, I think. How about Joe Theisman? Low draft pick destined to sit behind Bob Greise. Went to Canada instead, won the Grey cup, came back after about 4 years and returned punts for the Skins.

I'm not yet sold on Leinart being our future. We've hashed that over too often. This is about St. Pierre. He might have upside.

How about Kurt Warner? Undrafted in 1994. Couldn't sniff his way onto an NFL roster until 1999 when he was supposed to be a backup. You know all the rest.

Mocking Mitch about St. Pierre may be good fun but the mockers could be wrong.

Moon, Garcia and Joe T... were highly athletic and not considered prototypical NFL passers... thus, their time in the CFL honing their passing skills. All three, as did Doug Flutie, won championships up here.

Maybe if St-Pierre had spent some time in the CFL actually playing the game, he'd have more backers on this board.

 

[Mitch]

Rich Gannon started out as a DB. Made a fuss about and trade to the Vikings were he started for two years. Was released becuase he tore his shoulder up I think. Started some games in Washington. He took a year off to get healthy and returned to the Chiefs where he was at least a #2 QB where fans were screaming for him to start, they were on a role and AMrty switched to Grbac or Bono forget which and lost their first playoff game. Gannon started the following year.

Then he went to Oakland and ws the #1. But he didnt come out of no where.

We are talking about a 30 year old never been any higher then a 3rd stringer. Not a bunch of guys you listed who at least were starters or #2's for some time. They didnt go straight from #3 to starter at the age of 30.

I would bet all of Shane's ASFN bucks on it.

Why do you think, then Joe, that Steve Mariucci predicted this pre-season St. Pierre would become a good starter somewhere soon?

Do you think Mariucci is oblivious?

The perception of St. Pierre around the league is much higher than you think.

My buddy who knows St. Pierre's old QB coach in Pittsburgh, Mark Whipple, said that Whipple is very high on St. Pierre.

Thirty years old is not old for a QB, particlarly one who hasn't yet taken a pounding. You act as if 30 is ancient.

Like Skkorp suggested some players actually get better with age and when they get their shot no matter if they were #2s somewhere or #3s or one-time DBs, they rise to the occasion. It happens, Joe!

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Why do you think, then Joe, that Steve Mariucci predicted this pre-season St. Pierre would become a good starter somewhere soon?

Do you think Mariucci is oblivious?

The perception of St. Pierre around the league is much higher than you think.

Thiry years old is not old for a QB, particlarly one who hasn't yet taken a pounding. You act as if 30 is ancient.

Like Skkorp siggested some players actually get better with age and when they get their shot no matter if they were #2s somewhere or #3s or one-time DBs, they rise to the occasion. It happens, Joe!

It happens, but it is so rare, few would consider dumping a first round QBOF to find out if St-Pierre is one of those exceptions.

 

[Mitch]

It happens, but it is so rare, few would consider dumping a first round QBOF to find out if St-Pierre is one of those exceptions.

The problem is, CC, assuming Warner re-signs, the Cardinals are going to have to consider paying their QBOF $15M next year to keep him as the backup.

That's the problem.

And do you or anyone else think that Leinart would be real willing to redo his contract with the Cardinals? If so, you are kidding yourselves.

 

[82CardsGrad]

It happens, but it is so rare, few would consider dumping a first round QBOF to find out if St-Pierre is one of those exceptions.

Whiz is a crazy man... but he ain't stupid!

 

[Mitch]

Whiz is a crazy man... but he ain't stupid!

Whiz has spent more years with St. Pierre than he has with Leinart...so we'll find out.

 

[joeshmo]

Why do you think, then Joe, that Steve Mariucci predicted this pre-season St. Pierre would become a good starter somewhere soon? Do you think Mariucci is oblivious?

The guy is paid to make editorial comments. Not much to hang your hat on one comment. The late great Bill Walsh also called Plummer and ten other QB's the next Joe Montana. Guys make dumb comments all the time even the great ones.

The perception of St. Pierre around the league is much higher than you think.

Says who? One coach, who you dont even talk to directly and have to go through a friend who isnt going to publicly say anything bad about any of his players unless he doesnt ever want to get another coaching job again. I have said it before and its till applies. Liking a player and thinking he could be a good starter is two different things. Coaches also like Long and Urban a lot but neither are guys the coaches want to see starting.

Thirty years old is not old for a QB, particlarly one who hasn't yet taken a pounding. You act as if 30 is ancient.

Sigh. It isnt about being 30 years old. It is about if any of the many different coaches that have coached him or seen him play in preseason not thinking highly enough of the guy to even make him the #2 QB in more then 6 years in the NFL. If wiz didnt sign him last year he wouldnt even be on a team considering how long it took to sign him in the FA process. He hasnt shown enough to even be a #2 in 6+ years, but all of a sudden he is going to show enough to not only become a #2 but become a starter?

Like Skkorp suggested some players actually get better with age and when they get their shot no matter if they were #2s somewhere or #3s or one-time DBs, they rise to the occasion. It happens, Joe!

Name one #3 QB who has gone to be a starter after being in the league for 6+ years. No it doesnt happen and has never happened.

 

[Mitch]

The guy is paid to make editorial comments. Not much to hang your hat on one comment. The late great Bill Walsh also called Plummer and ten other QB's the next Joe Montana. Guys make dumb comments all the time even the great ones.



Says who? One coach, who you dont even talk to directly and have to go through a friend who isnt going to publicly say anything bad about any of his players unless he doesnt ever want to get another coaching job again. I have said it before and its till applies. Liking a player and thinking he could be a good starter is two different things. Coaches also like Long and Urban a lot but neither are guys the coaches want to see starting.



Sigh. It isnt about being 30 years old. It is about if any of the many different coaches that have coached him or seen him play in preseason not thinking highly enough of the guy to even make him the #2 QB in more then 6 years in the NFL. If wiz didnt sign him last year he wouldnt even be on a team considering how long it took to sign him in the FA process. He hasnt shown enough to even be a #2 in 6+ years, but all of a sudden he is going to show enough to not only become a #2 but become a starter?



Name one #3 QB who has gone to be a starter after being in the league for 6+ years. No it doesnt happen and has never happened.

Well, you and others bashed me last summer for saying that if Warner is rightfully named the starter the Cardinals would become Super Bowl contenders. Funny how noone ever mentions that. Obviously I am not always right, but I know what my instincts tell me, right or wrong and to me it makes no difference that St. Pierre has not yet been a #2. I strongly believe he is very well capable of being the #2 for the next two years behind Warner because he knows the system so well and he has the skills to step in and play well if needed. Plus, I strongly believe Whiz has confidence in him...enough to play him in front of Leinart if it gave the team, in his mind, a better chance to win.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Whiz has spent more years with St. Pierre than he has with Leinart...so we'll find out.

C'mon Mitch... really... just, c'mon now man! Please, make an attempt here to describe under what conditions Whiz would do such a thing. You seem to think the Jets might be a player for Matty. OK... and what then would you imagine Whiz would be willing to take for a former Heisman winner, first round #10 draft selection and a kid who while in college, was touted as the most NFL-ready QB to ever come out of college?

Just because Whiz has spent more time with St. Pierre? Mitch - I love your posts buddy - but in this case, not so much...

 

[Crazy Canuck]

The problem is, CC, assuming Warner re-signs, the Cardinals are going to have to consider paying their QBOF $15M next year to keep him as the backup.

That's the problem.

And do you or anyone else think that Leinart would be real willing to redo his contract with the Cardinals? If so, you are kidding yourselves.

No point debating with someone who answers his own questions.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Well, you and others bashed me last summer for saying that if Warner is rightfully named the starter the Cardinals would become Super Bowl contenders. Funny how noone ever mentions that. Obviously I am not always right, but I know what my instincts tell me, right or wrong and to me it makes no difference that St. Pierre has not yet been a #2. I strongly believe he is very well capable of being the #2 for the next two years behind Warner because he knows the system so well and he has the skills to step in and play well if needed. Plus, I strongly believe Whiz has confidence in him...enough to play him in front of Leinart if it gave the team, in his mind, a better chance to win.

I note the caveat at the end (which is like saying the team that scores more wins) but I really disagree with the premise.

Why does everyone all of a sudden think Whiz doesn't like what he has in Leinart? A link, a blurb from and article, or anything PLEASE point out to me.

The team has said with emphasis that Leinart is still the QBOF and he was named the starter going into last year. After the QB battle Warner was given the reigns so the team could get off to a 'fast start' (Wiz has said that repeatedly that is SO key. I really believe Leinarts struggles on the road - with 3 of 4 on the road - and Wiz's need to further the program and start of strong was the MAIN reasoning behind ultimately making the decision) is what led to Kurt being named. I really believe him when he says that he didn't sleep the night before when making the choice.

In fact I think all things considered he would have preferred to go with Matt (for long term benefit) and would have if not for that bad half against Oakland and public/national perception of 'losing the team' would have been against him in going with Matt. Essentially that bad half against Oakland in the preseason was the keystone point in our 2008 success.

Obviously it worked out well but there is no way Wiz would have guessed it would have worked that well before he made that decision.

I think the whole Whisenhunt doesn't like Matt is based on complete conjecture and all signs would point to that he does indeed like Matt and see him as the QBOF. He was just playing behind a guy that could have been both league MVP and SP MVP and had the hot hand throughout the season.

Thats nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[Skkorpion]

Blinders on all of you.

joeschmo, you did a masterful revisionist alteration on Gannon to shore up your stance. He started out as a QB who refused to switch to db so the Pats dumped him. Oh screw this.

Theismann? He was 3rd string for almost five full years from 1974 through 1978, behind Sonny Jurgenson and Billy Kilmer until Kilmer was benched part way through 1978. His first year as a starter was 1979 when he turned 30 on Sept 9.

Again, screw it. I'm done. A little ridicule here, a stretch there, anybody like Mitch who thinks a little differently, or stays with a belief not popular, and off we go.

I like St. Pierre. He may never get a shot. Some people don't. That will only prove he didn't get a shot, no matter how anybody wishes to spin it.

 

[lauraw]

mitch, i like what you wrote, again. i didn't agree with all of it, again, but i appreciate the work you put into it.

 

[Bobcat]

Prediction: Leinart isn't going anywhere.

People seem to forget how long Steve Young sat behind Joe Montana before he started his Hall of Fame Career. Matt has learned somuch this past season that when it is his turn team will not skip a beat. Mainly because he put in his time to learn and watch Kurt preform hus majic. TRhen Matt will preform his.


BOBCAT

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

if he's so highly thought of, why not just trade St.Pierre to the Jets ? I'd take a 3rd for him rather than trade away Leinart.