With the 13th pick, the Phoenix Suns select...

[slinslin]

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Doubt he will make it to #13 when draft day comes. Might be worth moving up for especially if we go with Jaylen Brown at #4.

The fit is obvious, tremendous shooting ability in a long agile body with shot-blocking instincts.

He could be a Channing Frye/Chris Bosh hybrid.

 

[3rdside]

I'm totally coming back round to maker at #13 (yeah i know I've gone from 'future of the NBA' to 'grab him at 28 cause he won't amount to much with small hands' - which actually turned out to be the wrong call as his measurements told me different to what my eyes saw...) but I watched more video yesterday and it confirmed how freaking agile for a guy that size he is, he's aggressive and he can definitely shoot (have said all this before of course...) And his attitude is A+++. Eye of the tiger. Forget safety on this guy ... Swing for the fences!





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[3rdside]

And I watched some pre-NBA tskitishvili vid as well to see if there's any obvious differences between them; beside tskitishvili being bulkier, there wasn't much. Both seem to play a soft outside game - per every scout report ever written - and based on tskita's record; that's not necessarily what you want from a PF (and I didn't get the impression Bender is Ray Allen in a 7ft body).

Chriss or Murray at 4, maker at 13.




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[3rdside]

*agile with legitimate handle; bender id say is just agile


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[AzStevenCal]

I'm totally coming back round to maker at #13 (yeah i know I've gone from 'future of the NBA' to 'grab him at 28 cause he won't amount to much with small hands' - which actually turned out to be the wrong call as his measurements told me different to what my eyes saw...) but I watched more video yesterday and it confirmed how freaking agile for a guy that size he is, he's aggressive and he can definitely shoot (have said all this before of course...) And his attitude is A+++. Eye of the tiger. Forget safety on this guy ... Swing for the fences! (But give him 2+ years to make progress..)

I'm one of the posters that pounded him on this but yeah, they aren't as small as we were led to believe. They're a bit on the short side but Ellenson's are even smaller and I don't see anyone banging on him for it. I think the difference might be because Henry has good hands and Maker's lack of hand strength makes it look like his are small and ineffective. But that's not a deal breaker AFAIC, you can develop hand strength. All told, I'm not sold on Maker but I'm not against the idea either.

 

[AzStevenCal]

And I watched some pre-NBA tskitishvili vid as well to see if there's any obvious differences between them; beside tskitishvili being bulkier, there wasn't much. Both seem to play a soft outside game - per every scout report ever written - and based on tskita's record; that's not necessarily what you want from a PF (and I didn't get the impression Bender is Ray Allen in a 7ft body).

Chriss or Murray at 4, maker at 13.

I'd like to think that Skita wouldn't happen in today's NBA but who knows. Today, with YouTube and Synergy and the development of all the draft sites; fans, scouts, GM's have access to far more information than they did just a dozen years ago.

The only comparison between the 2 that really worries me is that each of them got there on the strength of workouts, practices and measurements. Neither one of them got much playing time and although the league scouts the international game much better today, you still can only do so much if you can't see them play real minutes against real players.

Although it probably wouldn't have mattered with Skita, it's worth noting that the NBA game has changed dramatically since his time. The ability to defend in space and create space is far more valuable in today's power forward than it used to be. Bender seems well suited to the changing style of the NBA although his slight frame concerns me considerably. It's not always as easy to add muscle to these guys and all too often adding 20 pounds of muscle takes away from the other areas that interested us in the first place.

 

[3rdside]

I'm one of the posters that pounded him on this but yeah, they aren't as small as we were led to believe. They're a bit on the short side but Ellenson's are even smaller and I don't see anyone banging on him for it. I think the difference might be because Henry has good hands and Maker's lack of hand strength makes it look like his are small and ineffective. But that's not a deal breaker AFAIC, you can develop hand strength. All told, I'm not sold on Maker but I'm not against the idea either.

Hands definitely don't make a catcher or rebounder (Ben Wallace had tiny hands for example) but they probably help if you haven't got the hand eye coordination...Maker will never be a rebounder i don't think- his hands and physical make up will see to that - but he'll be lethal shooting over his man.

Lethal.

And the guy seems to have full use of his left and right hands for scoring and passing, and some of the passes he makes are sick...that's raw talent right there.

 

[slinslin]

I'd like to think that Skita wouldn't happen in today's NBA but who knows. Today, with YouTube and Synergy and the development of all the draft sites; fans, scouts, GM's have access to far more information than they did just a dozen years ago.

The only comparison between the 2 that really worries me is that each of them got there on the strength of workouts, practices and measurements. Neither one of them got much playing time and although the league scouts the international game much better today, you still can only do so much if you can't see them play real minutes against real players.

Although it probably wouldn't have mattered with Skita, it's worth noting that the NBA game has changed dramatically since his time. The ability to defend in space and create space is far more valuable in today's power forward than it used to be. Bender seems well suited to the changing style of the NBA although his slight frame concerns me considerably. It's not always as easy to add muscle to these guys and all too often adding 20 pounds of muscle takes away from the other areas that interested us in the first place.

Well if not Skita what about Bargnani? What about Jan Vesely?

 

[Chaplin]

Hands definitely don't maker a catcher or rebounder (Ben Wallace had tiny hands for example) but they probably help if you haven't got the hand eye coordination...Maker will never be a rebounder i don't think- his hands and physical make up will see to that - but he'll be lethal shooting over his man.

Lethal.

And the guy seems to have full use of his left and right hands for scoring and passing, and some of the passes he makes are sick...that's raw talent right there.

That does not make him a viable #13 pick over a bunch of other guys...

 

[slinslin]

I dont see how Makers physical makeup would prevent him from rebounding. Kevin Garnett is wiry too and was a terrific rebounder.

Maker seems to have a frame that can get stronger, by all reports he embraces physical play and has a high motor. Good rebounders are not defined by how big their hands are either.

Steve Kyler claims that he has not heard of any team loving Bender so far and that some have him outside of the lottery
https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/740497742242435072

 

[Chaplin]

I dont see how Makers physical makeup would prevent him from rebounding. Kevin Garnett is wiry too and was a terrific rebounder.

Maker seems to have a frame that can get stronger, by all reports he embraces physical play and has a high motor. Good rebounders are not defined by how big their hands are either.

Steve Kyler claims that he has not heard of any team loving Bender so far and that some have him outside of the lottery
https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/740497742242435072

Kyler is far from a reliable source for pretty much anything.

I like Maker at 28, but not 13.

 

[slinslin]

I would like to trade up from 28 for Maker to around 19 or so to make sure we get him. But I agree he should not be our 2nd highest pick.

 

[3rdside]

People wondered why stoudemire wasn't a good rebounder - it wasn't effort, it was his broad shoulders and muscly upper body combined with skinny butt and legs that meant his centre of gravity was ridiculously high; a stocky 6fter would have boxed him out no problem. It's why Barkley was a good rebounder - he had a massive ass and could not be moved off his block.

Maker is the same - he has the worlds skinniest legs and any muscle he puts on will largely go up top, inching his centre of gravity up accordingly. His speed and length will, of course, help but he'll never be a 'good' rebounder.


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[3rdside]

That does not make him a viable #13 pick over a bunch of other guys...

BPA, BPA..


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[3rdside]

I would like to trade up from 28 for Maker to around 19 or so to make sure we get him. But I agree he should not be our 2nd highest pick.

100% he's not going past the lottery


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[slinslin]

People wondered why stoudemire wasn't a good rebounder - it wasn't effort, it was his broad shoulders and muscly upper body combined with skinny butt and legs that meant his centre of gravity was ridiculously high; a stocky 6fter would have boxed him out no problem. It's why Barkley was a good rebounder - he had a massive ass and could not be moved off his block.

Maker is the same - he has the worlds skinniest legs and any muscle he puts on will largely go up top, inching his centre of gravity up accordingly. His speed and length will, of course, help but he'll never be a 'good' rebounder.


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I call BS on that.

It is called anticipation. There have been a lot of rebounders who were skinny but got rebounds.

How do you explain Shawn Marion? Kevin Garnett?

Has little to do with a big butt or small hands.

 

[3rdside]

I call BS on your BS.

Plenty things go into rebounding - timing, hops, anticipation, effort, length and centre of gravity.

I'm 6'6" (6'8 in shoes lol) and have the same make up - broad shoulders and skinny ass. A guard at my school was 5'7" and he worked out exactly how to stop me rebounding; use his lower centre of gravity to stop me moving. It was nuts, he was my toughest opponent (on the playground - we both played on the school team) and I had to resort to going round the guy or hope the ball would pop up high enough in my direction to try and grab the rebound.

So my opinion is coming from personal experience - I may be wrong of course but that's my insight.


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[3rdside]

And how would you explain Barkley? 6'4" PF with that rebounding average just happens to have one of the largest (relative) asses on record?

I don't think it's a coincidence.


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[3rdside]

100% he's not going past the lottery


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A little over excited - 100% he doesn't reach 19.


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[SirStefan32]

I don't do this often, but I agree with Slin. Blocking out and anticipating where the ball is going to go are key to rebounds. Large ass, and more weight helps, of course, but it's all about the fundamentals of blocking out.

 

[3rdside]

And timing and instinct and length and body shape and desire - there isn't a set of rules to follow, it's just everything. Centre of gravity no less.

Watch him in the one on one with skal; he gets totally twisted up and confused by body contact. He'll improve no doubt but my gut feel is that he'll be confused and twisted up over rebounding as well; his strength will be his scoring from jump shots, open play dunks and layups and, ironically, from picking up loose offensive rebounds and dunking it straight back in.

He just won't be known for rebounding is all.


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[Ronin]

I'd use this pick on Skal Labrissiere

 

[3rdside]

I think I'd take Sabonis over skal - the (not as) big fundamental (Sabonis) won't be a bad player; actually he'll probably be pretty good. Learning from his dad will not have hurt one bit.

Skal will be alright I'm sure but there's something about him that's a bit soft.


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[JCSunsfan]

I don't do this often, but I agree with Slin. Blocking out and anticipating where the ball is going to go are key to rebounds. Large ass, and more weight helps, of course, but it's all about the fundamentals of blocking out.

I agree. Dwight Howard has been a very good rebounder over his career (until recent injuries) and has the (very) broad shoulders/ narrow hips and legs build.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'd use this pick on Skal Labrissiere

Yes. Skal or Sabonis. Whoever is left. I think one of them will be. If both of them are there, then I take Sabonis.