Why I don't want Durant

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I agree that it makes no sense that the Nets are allegedly willing to give Irving to the Lakers for Westbrook's giant contract (which they will likely immediately buy out of) and a bunch of throwaway dreck, but they will only trade Durant to the Suns if they are willing to send back a king's ransom.

The media seems pretty invested in shaping the narrative of where these star players end up. I've seen several stories over the last couple days basically insulting Nets management for possibly sending Durant to Phoenix (where he wants to go) as well as for considering sending Irving anywhere other than the Lakers. Make of that what you will.
These two things have nothing to do with one another. A Kyrie/Westbrook swap is just Brooklyn paying $10m for future Laker draft picks (which every team would if it were just cash).
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Whether the relationship between Williams and Ayton can be mended depends on how strong it was before the blow-up, and we don't have that information. But, if it can't be salvaged and one of them has to go, why would it necessarily be Ayton? Who's more important to the long-term trajectory of the franchise, a top-five center or a top-five coach?
Generally I’d say the center. But this isn’t a case of a star butting heads with a head coach. This is a fairly beloved head coach (and current coach of the year) verses a player who virtually all of us consider an underachiever. Personally I’d go Ayton over monty. I don’t think the suns do. Particularly not James jones.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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For the record, no I don't want to give up Bridges, Cam, or Ayton, per se. I think giving up all three is too much, and arguably even two of them is too much. I am hoping that a deal can be made where they give up just Ayton of those three and only because it appears they are determined to trade him regardless. The other stuff in the deal I don't really care about.

On the other hand, trading Ayton + (one of) Bridges or Cam for Durant is superior in my opinion to trading Ayton for any of the other junk deals that have been mentioned. Those are all definite steps backwards.

Standing pat and just resigning Ayton isn't a bad option either... but as mentioned, it appears to be a pissing match between the Suns management and Ayton at this point and doesn't seem like that will be an option, unfortunately.
I am firmly in raindog’s camp on all of this.
 

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it IS odd how LA is always getting the best of big trades
any deal that ends up with Kyrie in LA and them getting out of Westbrook is a gift
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Where did the information about the trade discussions at the deadline come from anyways? I mean I guess I wouldn't be surprised if there were some informal discussions initiated by other teams, but am I the only one who calls BS on the idea that they were out shopping him around with the best record in the NBA and on a championship run?

I disagree with those that think it's a forgone conclusion he's gone. I really don't think they'll let him sign elsewhere without getting something valuable back. And if we are losing DA and bridges in a trade that only brings back Kevin Durant or Kevin Durant and scraps their damn well be another team involved like Utah who's pitching in several of the draft picks and probably some talent to go to Brooklyn.

I kind of think Brooklyn is dreaming if they think they are going to get the kind of return they are imagining. The part I think that is hilarious is this idea they are going to do the Lakers the favor of taking Westbrook's contract + their pu pu platter of assets for Kyrie Irving. That has to be a media and Lakers fan fantasy.
I don’t think the suns let Ayton walk for nothing. But I do think he’s gone. And if not for Durant I think it will be a disappointing return.

I also don’t think the nets will get what they’re seeking. And we also won’t pick up the full freight on the Durant trade as some of the nets booty will come from a separate Ayton trade to the jazz. That’s why I think ultimately we give up Ayton, possibly bridges or cam (but not both and also possibly neither if the nets come off their asking price), two firsts and three swaps. The other first round picks and maybe a player will come from the jazz.
 

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I keep going back and forth on this KD stuff, and I just seem to come back to the fact that the Suns completely collapsed in the playoffs. It was supposed to be (judging from the regular season) a very deep team that had too many weapons to be neutralized. Then they just stopped showing up from roughly three-quarters of the regular season. Even if they retain Ayton and repair whatever the hell happened in the playoffs, how much further can they improve that team? Enough to get through the Mavs? Sure, most likely. Enough to get through the Warriors or Boston? I doubt it.

KD is good enough that Booker becomes your second option, and in my opinion, the Suns are more likely to get through Golden State, Boston, etc with KD than they are if they just roll it back. Assuming KD and Paul stay healthy, that;s a dangerous team, especially if they manage to retain Bridges. I am a bit concerned about their defense if they lose Ayton AND Bridges, but I am still feeling better about that team than I am about rolling it back.
 

AzStevenCal

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I keep going back and forth on this KD stuff, and I just seem to come back to the fact that the Suns completely collapsed in the playoffs. It was supposed to be (judging from the regular season) a very deep team that had too many weapons to be neutralized. Then they just stopped showing up from roughly three-quarters of the regular season. Even if they retain Ayton and repair whatever the hell happened in the playoffs, how much further can they improve that team? Enough to get through the Mavs? Sure, most likely. Enough to get through the Warriors or Boston? I doubt it.

KD is good enough that Booker becomes your second option, and in my opinion, the Suns are more likely to get through Golden State, Boston, etc with KD than they are if they just roll it back. Assuming KD and Paul stay healthy, that;s a dangerous team, especially if they manage to retain Bridges. I am a bit concerned about their defense if they lose Ayton AND Bridges, but I am still feeling better about that team than I am about rolling it back.
I can understand this reaction but I ask you, why aren't we all equally concerned about Durant's playoff collapse?

Maybe it was Covid or injuries that caused our utter collapse but no matter what, you need an excuse to justify our bewildering performance against Dallas. And maybe it was exhaustion, frustration or whatever but no matter what you need an excuse to justify KD's bewildering performance against Boston.

A 13.6 playoff PER for a superstar whose strength is mostly just offense these days is alarming IMO.
 

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I can understand this reaction but I ask you, why aren't we all equally concerned about Durant's playoff collapse?

Maybe it was Covid or injuries that caused our utter collapse but no matter what, you need an excuse to justify our bewildering performance against Dallas. And maybe it was exhaustion, frustration or whatever but no matter what you need an excuse to justify KD's bewildering performance against Boston.

A 13.6 playoff PER for a superstar whose strength is mostly just offense these days is alarming IMO.
Based on his postseason a year ago and his regular season this year I’m writing it off a fluke. That team was just broken (partly on him for hiring his wagon to Kyrie in the first place).

I just think he knows he colossally F’d up and doesn’t want to waste the rest of his career. Not trying to argue that it’s noble or anything.
 

Cheesebeef

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Based on his postseason a year ago and his regular season this year I’m writing it off a fluke. That team was just broken (partly on him for hiring his wagon to Kyrie in the first place).

I just think he knows he colossally F’d up and doesn’t want to waste the rest of his career. Not trying to argue that it’s noble or anything.
This.
 

AzStevenCal

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Based on his postseason a year ago and his regular season this year I’m writing it off a fluke. That team was just broken (partly on him for hiring his wagon to Kyrie in the first place).

I just think he knows he colossally F’d up and doesn’t want to waste the rest of his career. Not trying to argue that it’s noble or anything.
If I were a Nets fan I'd be doing the exact thing. But as a fan of a team thinking about gambling away a lot of assets??? Even doing it for pre-playoff Durant is a risk but this goes beyond a reasonable wager IMO.
 

SirStefan32

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I can understand this reaction but I ask you, why aren't we all equally concerned about Durant's playoff collapse?

Maybe it was Covid or injuries that caused our utter collapse but no matter what, you need an excuse to justify our bewildering performance against Dallas. And maybe it was exhaustion, frustration or whatever but no matter what you need an excuse to justify KD's bewildering performance against Boston.

A 13.6 playoff PER for a superstar whose strength is mostly just offense these days is alarming IMO.

Certainly a fair point. I am counting on it being a fluke or a combination of crap KD had to deal last year with the Nets. I suppose I am also counting on the fact that likelyhood is pretty low for both Durant and Book to be off for the playoffs at the same time on the same team. Pressure on each of them (and even Paul) would be much lower. But all that said, your point is 100% valid.
 

Cheesebeef

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Certainly a fair point. I am counting on it being a fluke or a combination of crap KD had to deal last year with the Nets. I suppose I am also counting on the fact that likelyhood is pretty low for both Durant and Book to be off for the playoffs at the same time on the same team. Pressure on each of them (and even Paul) would be much lower. But all that said, your point is 100% valid.
Not only that, but wherever KD goes next season will probably be the single most committed he’s ever been to basketball. He knows all the trash talked about him grew exponentially the second GS won the title without him. Give me that kind of motivated KD while still in the sunset of his prime over anyone but Steph/Giannis in the league right now.
 

SirStefan32

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Not only that, but wherever KD goes next season will probably be the single most committed he’s ever been to basketball. He knows all the trash talked about him grew exponentially the second GS won the title without him. Give me that kind of motivated KD while still in the sunset of his prime over anyone but Steph/Giannis in the league right now.

Good point as well. Honestly, sometimes I forget just how good KD is. I mean, I KNOW he is really good, but sometimes I don't appreciate just how good he is. He has got to still be a top-three or top-five player in the league right now.
 

Cheesebeef

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Good point as well. Honestly, sometimes I forget just how good KD is. I mean, I KNOW he is really good, but sometimes I don't appreciate just how good he is. He has got to still be a top-three or top-five player in the league right now.
Yup. And I’m someone who has dogged Durant for bandwagonning onto the Warriors. But he’s still amazing and the flat truth is, it’s a big a risk, but it’s a bigger risk to me not getting him because the run is officially done and we’re mired in mediocrity for years on end moving forward.
 

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Not only that, but wherever KD goes next season will probably be the single most committed he’s ever been to basketball. He knows all the trash talked about him grew exponentially the second GS won the title without him. Give me that kind of motivated KD while still in the sunset of his prime over anyone but Steph/Giannis in the league right now.

I'd add that KD would be extra motivated to deliver a title in Phoenix to really put it to Barkley and Shaq. Both have bashed KD over the years and both cranked that ridicule up last postseason.

It would be poetic for KD to come to Phoenix and deliver a title to a team where 2 of his biggest critics promised a championship but failed.
 

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I'd add that KD would be extra motivated to deliver a title in Phoenix to really put it to Barkley and Shaq. Both have bashed KD over the years and both cranked that ridicule up last postseason.

It would be poetic for KD to come to Phoenix and deliver a title to a team where 2 of his biggest critics promised a championship but failed.
Right. And normally, I would wave the above away as stupid and immaterial but KD is that sensitive that the Chuck/Shaq stuff would push him that much harder.
 

Proximo

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I agree that it makes no sense that the Nets are allegedly willing to give Irving to the Lakers for Westbrook's giant contract (which they will likely immediately buy out of) and a bunch of throwaway dreck, but they will only trade Durant to the Suns if they are willing to send back a king's ransom.

The media seems pretty invested in shaping the narrative of where these star players end up. I've seen several stories over the last couple days basically insulting Nets management for possibly sending Durant to Phoenix (where he wants to go) as well as for considering sending Irving anywhere other than the Lakers. Make of that what you will.
The difference is very simple.

Kyrie has no value, or very very little value to any other team in the league. We know that because he tried to shop himself and only the Lakers showed any interest.

Durant is wanted by every team.

The media does not want him going to the suns, because he is one of the chosen few players they talk about reguarly, and they want him in as big a market as possible for their ratings.
 

AzStevenCal

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The difference is very simple.

Kyrie has no value, or very very little value to any other team in the league. We know that because he tried to shop himself and only the Lakers showed any interest.

Durant is wanted by every team.

The media does not want him going to the suns, because he is one of the chosen few players they talk about reguarly, and they want him in as big a market as possible for their ratings.
Kyrie may not be worth his contract to any team in the league but that doesn't mean he has little to no value. Most teams would be turned off by the non-basketball issues surrounding him but I'm sure there's a few that would still love to have him if they could make it work salary-wise without sacrificing major assets.
 

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Kyrie may not be worth his contract to any team in the league but that doesn't mean he has little to no value. Most teams would be turned off by the non-basketball issues surrounding him but I'm sure there's a few that would still love to have him if they could make it work salary-wise without sacrificing major assets.
I really don't think there are many teams that want him.

How do you doubt that when the only offer they have is for freaking Westbrook, the worst contract in the league?
 

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I really don't think there are many teams that want him.

How do you doubt that when the only offer they have is for freaking Westbrook, the worst contract in the league?
But that's because of the money he is making and that he's apparently pushing for a move to the Lakers. Besides, do you believe that the media reports every single inquiry or offer made? I think we'll hear about other potential deals once the Kevin Durant thing works itself out. Kyrie Irving is to good of a player… Offensively.
 

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But that's because of the money he is making and that he's apparently pushing for a move to the Lakers. Besides, do you believe that the media reports every single inquiry or offer made? I think we'll hear about other potential deals once the Kevin Durant thing works itself out. Kyrie Irving is to good of a player… Offensively.
He is an amazing offensive player but he has been such a cancer on every team he’s been on. The folks in Boston couldn’t get him off their team fast enough. He’s destroyed the Nets. He broke up the Cavs.

I think the only team that would willingly bring on that headache at that salary while also having to give up compensation is the Lakers at this point. A young team sure as hell doesn’t want him pissing in their pool and what contender is desperate enough to bring his crazy ass in?
 

Joe Mama

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He is an amazing offensive player but he has been such a cancer on every team he’s been on. The folks in Boston couldn’t get him off their team fast enough. He’s destroyed the Nets. He broke up the Cavs.

I think the only team that would willingly bring on that headache at that salary while also having to give up compensation is the Lakers at this point. A young team sure as hell doesn’t want him pissing in their pool and what contender is desperate enough to bring his crazy ass in?
Yeah I hear you. Without actually looking at contracts and what teams have to offer the only one I could come up with is Denver. I just can't stomach the idea of the Lakers actually getting out from under that horrible deal for Westbrook at a minimal cost and returning a player who at least from a basketball standpoint is almost a perfect fit. If Anthony Davis is healthy (Always the question) that's a team that could win a championship.

Joe
 
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