Why are we struggling?!?!

[Phill11]

I just don't get it. We should be on top of the NL West with this lineup.

C- Hammock (.270 15 Homers)
1B- Hillenbrand (.280 20 Homers)
2B- Hairston (.290 15 Homers)
3B- Olsen (.270 15 Homers)
SS- Cintron (.270 15 Homers)
LF- Gonzo (.300 30 Homers)
CF- Steve Finley (.285 25 Homers)
RF- Bautista (.280 15 Homers)

That is a few of my predictions on how these guys should be playing. That is a VERY solid lineup. Then with Kata, Almoar, Brito, Colbrunn and all the guys we have on the bench, that is a strong team.

Pitching I think we could be great, IF Brenly used the guys right.

1. Johnson (18-4 2.80 ERA)
2. Webb (10-10 3.50 ERA)
3. Dessens (8-6 4.00 ERA) (This guy would be awesome. Just have him go 5 innings! Dont have him go 6+!!)
4-5 Who cares. As long as they go .500 we're good.

Just make a few moves, and this team is a top contender. Add Garcia to the mix and Webb, Garcia, Johnson is better than Schilling/Johnson in my opinion.

With the young guys we have in the minors I'm sure we can find a decent 4-5 starter.

Oh well. Another season wasted.

FIRE BRENLY! He's a great guy, and he's done a great job. But the way he's managing this team is awful. He killed Villareals career by having him pitch so much.

I'm just expressing my anger.

 

[Ryanwb]

WTF kind of predicting is this? All of our everyday players have atleast 15 home runs? Get real dude!

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

WTF kind of predicting is this? All of our everyday players have atleast 15 home runs? Get real dude!

Not surprising considering the source. He once suggested the Cardinals should pick up Eric Crouch as their starting QB.

The reason we suck is our farm system was not nearly as good as last year's aberation known as the Babybacks. Predictably, Joe G. thought it was and traded away a Cy Young contender for Boston's disabled list and much of our talented youth for the 2004 version of Rob Deer.

 

[Phill11]

Not surprising considering the source. He once suggested the Cardinals should pick up Eric Crouch as their starting QB.

The reason we suck is our farm system was not nearly as good as last year's aberation known as the Babybacks. Predictably, Joe G. thought it was and traded away a Cy Young contender for Boston's disabled list and much of our talented youth for the 2004 version of Rob Deer.

I didn't mind the Sexson deal (As long as he resigns)

Thw Schilling deal was awful. Fossum is crap. Lyon is a AA pitcher who will be there forever.

Ryan- Those are estimates. I rounded to. I can't predict someone will hit 37 homers or 12 homers. I guessed around there.

If you look at the team, down the lineup is very solid.

 

[Zeno]

I said before the season even started we would lose 100 games(and was ridiculed). The pitching isn't there and honestly we have nobody in our batting order that anyone would consider a "superstar" anymore.

Until the DBacks get out of debt expect a couple more sub .500 seasons. They need to invest in youth especially young pitching talent instead of trading away everything for veterans who more often than not are either worse than advertised or past their primes.

 

[WizardOfAz]

FIRE BRENLY! He's a great guy, and he's done a great job. But the way he's managing this team is awful.

Joe, Jr needs to go first....he is the one that has made all of those trades.

 

[AZZenny]

To this point in the season, Finley, Gonzo, Bautista, Shea, Tracy, Hairston are all producing at or slightly better than career projections would anticipate, believe it or not. Alex, Robby, and 'The Bench' are slightly to substantially below projections.

Really, this is NOT a strong or well-constituted team that is mysteriously struggling. It is the team we see, but with almost no lucky breaks and unreliable pitching. And the second lowest OBP in all of baseball = plate discipline has been sliding for 3 years (and the trend continues), and likewise gradually declining defense.

You must be projecting Dessens off his one aberrant good season in Cincy? Webb pitching well depends on defense to a significant degree, so he's sort of scrooed - and I fail to see how you can blame BB for Webb's lack of control.

I see you didn't list the bullpen - since relievers are so hard to project, good idea, but they've cost us no fewer than 6-7 games.

If we re-sign Sexson expect another couple years of the same wheel-spinning.

 

[Phill11]

Joe, Jr needs to go first....he is the one that has made all of those trades.

True.

But Brenly is making bad choices too.

 

[Phill11]

To this point in the season, Finley, Gonzo, Bautista, Shea, Tracy, Hairston are all producing at or slightly better than career projections would anticipate, believe it or not. Alex, Robby, and 'The Bench' are slightly to substantially below projections.

Really, this is NOT a strong or well-constituted team that is mysteriously struggling. It is the team we see, but with almost no lucky breaks and unreliable pitching. And the second lowest OBP in all of baseball = plate discipline has been sliding for 3 years (and the trend continues), and likewise gradually declining defense.

You must be projecting Dessens off his one aberrant good season in Cincy? Webb pitching well depends on defense to a significant degree, so he's sort of scrooed - and I fail to see how you can blame BB for Webb's lack of control.

I see you didn't list the bullpen - since relievers are so hard to project, good idea, but they've cost us no fewer than 6-7 games.

If we re-sign Sexson expect another couple years of the same wheel-spinning.

Our relievers are strong.

Koplove
Valverde
Mantei

Three potential closers.

Randolph
Villareal
Many more

I mean this team is great on paper. They just need some fire up their butts, and Brenly or anyone isn't doing anything about it.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Our relievers are strong.

Koplove
Valverde
Mantei

Three potential closers.

Randolph
Villareal
Many more

I mean this team is great on paper.

Are you sure you're not related to Joe Garagiola or Rod Graves?

 

[thirty-two]

Are you sure you're not related to Joe Garagiola or Rod Graves?

No but he is a Cowboys fan...

that alone explains everything

 

[Ryanwb]

Our relievers are strong.

Koplove
Valverde
Mantei

Three potential closers.

Randolph
Villareal
Many more

I mean this team is great on paper. They just need some fire up their butts, and Brenly or anyone isn't doing anything about it.

Our bullpen is one of the worst in the Majors....not everything will be cured by firing Brenly. There is no talent

 

[Kel Varnsen]

They need to invest in youth especially young pitching talent instead of trading away everything for veterans who more often than not are either worse than advertised or past their primes.

Investing in your farm system is huge. The Diamondbacks might actually be competitive if they got for Schilling what Seattle got when they traded Randy Johnson. What a ripoff.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Investing in your farm system is huge. The Diamondbacks might actually be competitive if they got for Schilling what Seattle got when they traded Randy Johnson. What a ripoff.

The main reason why the Diamondbacks didnt get much return for Schilling as they and everyone else desired was that Curt only wanted to go to 3 select teams (Philadelphia, New York, and Boston)......

Philadelphia wasnt willing to sacrifice their better prospects....

New York....their farm system has been depleted with all the trades they've made in recent years...

Boston didnt have much available, however, Fossum and Lyons were both highly touted and sought prospects for the past couple years...but of course the Dbacks received them as damaged goods....

I'm still wondering if the Dbacks were forced at the last minute to trade De La Rosa in the Milwaukee trade or was he originally acquired in the Schilling deal knowing that he would be included in the other trade package.... Michael Goss (who the Dbacks also got in the Schilling trade) has been posting some decent stats so far in South Bend....

.287-BA
195-ABs
29-Runs
56-Hits
20-RBI
7-2B
1-3B
0-HR
15-BB
36-K
4/9 SBs



The Dbacks could seriously redeem themselves to a certain extent if they do actually manage to trade Finley, Bautista, Choate, Sparks, Hillenbrand, and Alomar........If they even get some lower level prospects in exchange for them, they could then subsquently package them along with other players....Shall be interesting to see how everything unfolds during the next couple weeks....

 

[az240zz]

To this point in the season, Finley, Gonzo, Bautista, Shea, Tracy, Hairston are all producing at or slightly better

If we re-sign Sexson expect another couple years of the same wheel-spinning.

Shea is having a terible season. As the 5th batter he should be an RBI machine. He has 36 RBI's this year. Last year with bith Boston and Arizona he had 97. Last nights game was so typical of his year. He came up with men in scoring position and hit week balls while he got hits with no one on base. You can say he is hitting well but as the announcers say "its not the number of hits but when you get them"..

He is "CHOCKING" with men on base.

Also in the bottom of the 9th shouldn't Alomar gotten to 3rd. He really dogged it going to second and when the ball was booted he was in no position to get to 3rd. If scouts were still there I'm sure they were real impressed.

Last rant, Gonzo actually faked a bunt to 3rd. Next tiime swallow your ego and actually do it.

Az240z

 

[IndyDevil]

Hairston supposedly missed not one, but TWO bunt signs before popping one up in the 9th; after the first missed sign, Pedrique should have pulled Hairston aside and told him to bunt instead of missing another sign!

 

[Kel Varnsen]

The main reason why the Diamondbacks didnt get much return for Schilling as they and everyone else desired was that Curt only wanted to go to 3 select teams (Philadelphia, New York, and Boston)......

Yeah. I guess I'm just a little frustrated that players can orchestrate trades like that. It's that and when the best players don't get drafted by the worst teams because the kids refuse to play there that really bothers me.

MLB needs some serious changes. It's just not a good system. It's almost like no one in baseball can figure out why the NFL is so popular and just copy their ideas. Sigh....

 

[Skkorpion]

I agree with Zeno. The D'Baks are simply in full cash retention mode and the bad injury cycle didn't help either.

I think, if management was honest, an 81-81 season would have exceeded expectations.

Sure some players have played badly but Colangelo and Garagiola assembled this mess, knew it was a low-budget stop-gap hybrid but sold it to fans as a Lexus.

So now Brenly will get the axe and the blame.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree with Zeno. The D'Baks are simply in full cash retention mode and the bad injury cycle didn't help either.

I think, if management was honest, an 81-81 season would have exceeded expectations.

Sure some players have played badly but Colangelo and Garagiola assembled this mess, knew it was a low-budget stop-gap hybrid but sold it to fans as a Lexus.

So now Brenly will get the axe and the blame.

Man Skkorp - were you this angry when Gonzo hit the flaoter for the title also? They went for everything - and GOT IT - and then basically told everyone they would be rebuilding - why anyone is shocked by this is beyond me - that was ALWAYS the plan - from Day 1 - jeez - you'd think you'd give the only guy that's ever brought a title to the State a little leeway - considering how much you gush over the Cards and their management team thsat has produced nothing but crap for decades.

What ever happened to that more positive vibe feeling?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The main reason why the Diamondbacks didnt get much return for Schilling as they and everyone else desired was that Curt only wanted to go to 3 select teams (Philadelphia, New York, and Boston)......

Don't neglect the fact that Colangelo's bitterness towards Steinbrenner over the whole David Wells fiasco hurt the trade talks between these two teams . It's that immature disdain by Colangelo for Steinbrenner why we ended up with Fossum (who will be fine as a middle of rotation starter) and co. instead of future All-Star like Nick Johnson or Alfonso Soriano. Would anybody else mind Soriano and Overbay manning the right side of our infield right now?

 

[Phill11]

Don't neglect the fact that Colangelo's bitterness towards Steinbrenner over the whole David Wells fiasco hurt the trade talks between these two teams . It's that immature disdain by Colangelo for Steinbrenner why we ended up with Fossum (who will be fine as a middle of rotation starter) and co. instead of future All-Star like Nick Johnson or Alfonso Soriano. Would anybody else mind Soriano and Overbay manning the right side of our infield right now?

I'd kill to have Soriano and Overbay. But imagine Soriano and a healthy Sexson. But then do we move Hairston to the OF?

That'd be scary. Sexson, Soriano, Gonzo. Wow.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Don't neglect the fact that Colangelo's bitterness towards Steinbrenner over the whole David Wells fiasco hurt the trade talks between these two teams . It's that immature disdain by Colangelo for Steinbrenner why we ended up with Fossum (who will be fine as a middle of rotation starter) and co. instead of future All-Star like Nick Johnson or Alfonso Soriano. Would anybody else mind Soriano and Overbay manning the right side of our infield right now?

There are 2 possible ways to approach this...

First..The Dbacks could have demanded Johnson and Soriano to be included as part of a trade package for Schilling, but Steinbrenner and Cashman declined... In fact, I came across this little blur......

Diamondbacks | Trade Talks Progress

- from www.KFFL.com
Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:29:45 -0800

The Associated Press reports the New York Yankees are interested in Arizona Diamondbacks SP Curt Schilling. Their most likely trade bait seems to be 1B Nick Johnson and 2B Alfonso Soriano. "Nick Johnson is a prospect. We think he's potentially a guy who could hit 30-35 home runs a year, and that would be a welcome addition, too," Diamondbacks managing general partner Jerry Colangelo said. "So would Soriano because of what he brings - the power, the speed, base stealing, et cetera."

That somewhat suggests that Colangelo was seeking those players, but if we were to think about it now....The Yankees managed to get AROD for Soriano and Johnson was sent to Montreal in part of the Vasquez trade, so the Yankees got better value than just settling for Schilling.....


Also, both Soriano and Johnson were both arbitration eligible (Soriano ended-up signing a 1-year $5.4 mil contract and Johnson a $1.25 mil contract), and the Dbacks primary objective was to acquire Sexson, and the only way they'd manage to do that was by dumping Schilling....True, Sexson is injured, however, hindsight is 20/20 as they say and if Sexson remained healthy...I bet we'd have a lot more positives to discuss.....


Another factor was that the Dbacks knew that Hairston is the long-term solution at 2B, so they probably wouldnt want to have signed Soriano to a long-term deal...True, Soriano could play 3B, SS, and the OF, but it seems that the Dbacks are content with Tracey at 3B (still were during the offseason that Hillenbrand would still produce solid numbers), Cintron at SS (with Santos and now Drew waiting in the wings), and Bautista in RF (with all these elite Minor League OF prospects they have, albeit in the lower levels for the most part)......


Also, the Dbacks obtained Mondesi from the Yankees during last season's trading deadlines, so that would suggest to me that Jerry C has since reconciled his differences with George S.


People are overly excited about Overbay, but I bet is more to do w/him needing a change of scenery....That he also was a "man on a mission" to prove that he's a capable replacement for Sexson there in Milwaukee....

I'd kill to have Soriano and Overbay. But imagine Soriano and a healthy Sexson. But then do we move Hairston to the OF?

That'd be scary. Sexson, Soriano, Gonzo. Wow.

The Dbacks wouldnt have been able to acquire Sexson if they had gotten Soriano for the reasons I state earlier in this post.....



I dont want to seem like I'm a complete Joe G. Jr. apologist here (and that it may appear that I fault Brenly 100% for the team's demise), however, Joe Jr. didnt have much "leeway" this past offseason..... He had to adhere to Jerry C.'s payroll cut demands and also Schilling's no-trade clause also was a burden......


When I direct blame at Brenly, it's his lack of accountability with the younger players (not communicating with them about the fundamentals) and him destroying several of the younger reliever's arms.......

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

KingLouieLouie,

My fault if I was misled you. I wasn't trying to imply we could get both Soriano and Johnson because I remember Cashman saying he wouldn't part with both only for Schil. I really wanted Soriano over Sexson though and we could have had him in a deal a little better than the Vazquez deal. Soriano has speed and power, two things this team had sorely lacked in 2003. The Boston trade talent-wise doesn't bother me. It's the fact that the players were hurt before they got here and that De La Rosa was included in the Sexson deal (who gives up two good lefty prospects?).

And I think you're wrong about Overbay as well. He has always been a solid hitter and will continue to be one. His struggles last year were the result of his confidence due to Brenly's daily lineup shifts and itchy Tucson trigger finger.

 

[Ryanwb]

Eh... Hind sight is 20/20 ( I hate that saying)

We can dwell in the past and become bitter like Cubs fans or we can hope they have a plan for the future. There is going to be some decent pitchers on the market next year (Ortiz, Lowe, Milton) and if they can clear some space and fills some holes, we may be able to reload rather quickly.

1. If we are going to rebuild, do it all the way, trade everyone we can get a decent prospect back for
2. Fire Brenly and his staff. Get a quality pitching and hitting coach and a manager that has a spine.
3. Sign some quality free agents in the offseason while still observing the budget.

The NL West is weak, the D'backs are in good shape for another run next year.

 

[Skkorpion]

Man Skkorp - were you this angry when Gonzo hit the flaoter for the title also? They went for everything - and GOT IT - and then basically told everyone they would be rebuilding - why anyone is shocked by this is beyond me - that was ALWAYS the plan - from Day 1 - jeez - you'd think you'd give the only guy that's ever brought a title to the State a little leeway - considering how much you gush over the Cards and their management team thsat has produced nothing but crap for decades.

What ever happened to that more positive vibe feeling?

Actually, I gree with you cheesy. And I'm along for the ride. The financial ship must be righted first. And yes, Jerry told us what he was going to do several years ago.

I misstated my case. In the long run, the D'baks will be okay with Jerry calling the shots.

In the short run they raised prices too much and tried to sell this team as a contender. That is killing their ticket sales as much as the losing.

Don't label me as not liking Jerry as the D'Baks owner. It's his abandoning of the Suns to Brian and Fitzsimmons that has me pissed off.