Which Cards do you predict will get cut?

[Duckjake]

Goodyear, a great pass rush often suddenly turns average CBs into very good CBs.

Here's some interesting numbers:

Cardinals total QB sacks for the last 4 years:

2007-36
2006-38
2005-37
2004-38

I was surprised to see that they were almost identical for all 4 years.

 

[cardsfanmd]

So the Colts were fools when they let him go to us in the first place?

RB's aren't all that hard to find, except traditionally for us. I wouldn't cut him without a viable replacement already on the roster but guys like him at his age and salary get cut every year by good teams.

The Colts didn't cut him, they chose not to resign him.

Also, since when do 28 yr old HOFers get cut all the time?

 

[cardsfanmd]

Ross
Holt
Shipp
Berry
Hood

If we cut Holt and Hood and move Rolle to safety, then we can use that money to sign one of the big free agent CB. I am not completely sold on Rolle at safety, but I am willing to give me a chance.

The way I think about it, there is no way we could be worse in the secondary with A-dub, Rolle, Florence and Green/Hood than we were this year.

 

[joeshmo]

You are right Joe, We have two adequate #2 corners. We need a #1 corner. Hoods salary is $2.5m and Holts is $2M. After signing Pace and Dansby money will be tight. I am hoping Green will improve next year since this was his first year as a starter.

I don't want to see us playing next year with Green and Hood as our starters or relying on a draft pick to start. Our secondary is weak, signing a top free agent would dramatically improve our secondary.

Lets get some facts cleared up first.

1. Hood would only save us 500K in cap space after we take out the remaining prorated signing bonus. Not even a 3rd of what it will cost to RFA tender Green. Not even a 10th of what it would cost to sign a top flight CB.

2. You still havent answered this question, "Do you honestly believe we will sign a top flight CB in free agency"?

3. Green has had just as many starters before this season that Hood had. Both had 13 starts to their names before this season started. So if, "Green will improve next year since this was his first year as a starter." Then the same thing applies for Hood.

4. After signing Pace and Dansby money will not be tight.

I cant believe I am debating if we should cut the #2 CB in the league in passes defensed and the #9 CB in INT's. All for only 5 year 15 Million deal.

 

[Goodyear Card]

Goodyear, a great pass rush often suddenly turns average CBs into very good CBs.

I agree Skkorp. Just like a great OL will make an average RB into a very good RB. The longer I watch football the more priority I put on the OL and DL and less on the skill positions.

 

[Goodyear Card]

Lets get some facts cleared up first.

1. Hood would only save us 500K in cap space after we take out the remaining prorated signing bonus. Not even a 3rd of what it will cost to RFA tender Green. Not even a 10th of what it would cost to sign a top flight CB.

2. You still haven't answered this question, "Do you honestly believe we will sign a top flight CB in free agency"?

3. Green has had just as many starters before this season that Hood had. Both had 13 starts to their names before this season started. So if, "Green will improve next year since this was his first year as a starter." Then the same thing applies for Hood.

4. After signing Pace and Dansby money will not be tight.

I cant believe I am debating if we should cut the #2 CB in the league in passes defensed and the #9 CB in INT's. All for only 5 year 15 Million deal.

1. Joe if we designate him as a June 1st cut we only have to count this years portion of the bonus toward this year salary cap and we would save $2.5M for this years cap. This one of the tricks teams use to sign players and free up salary cap space. You might want to share this with Rod Graves because you are the only two people on earth who don't know this besides a few people in China. Also Hood has incentives built in to his contract and he won't be the cheap player he was last year.

3/10/2007: Signed a five-year, $15 million contract. The deal included a $2.5 million signing bonus and can be worth $23 million if Hood becomes, and remains, a starter. 2007: $1 million, 2008-2011: under contract

Year Salary
2007 1000000.00
2008 2500000.00
2009 3000000.00
2010 3000000.00
2011 3000000.00

2. Not if the Cardinals front office thinks like you.

3. You are right Hood has 28 starts in 5 years and Green has 23 starts in 3 years. Maybe there is not much difference between them. I tend to favor younger players who have more potential.

4. You are right that $15M over 5 years is cheap for a start CB but you get what you pay for. There are some good free agent CB this year and that doesn't happen every year. I would like us to sign one instead of relying on average CB. If we have plenty of money to sign Dansby, Pace, Fancea, a free agent CB and keep Hood I am all for it.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Hood played very well this year IMO. To get rid of him would be crazy.

 

[Goodyear Card]

You can't count on signing a top free agent and letting Hood go for nothing. If we miss out on that top free agent we are stuck with Green and Ralph Brown at CB.. It'd be great to sign a top free agent move Hood to #2 and have Green as our nickelback but I don't think thats going to happen. If we sign 1 name free agent I am betting its Faneca and thats it.

Zeno,

I don't have a problem with keep Hood if we still have the money to sign a free agent CB. It would be great to have some depth at CB. However, I was trying to free up salary cap money so we could sign a CB. We don't know the details of players contracts or how money is available to sign free agents.

 

[joeshmo]

1. Joe if we designate him as a June 1st cut we only have to count this years portion of the bonus toward this year salary cap and we would save $2.5M for this years cap. This one of the tricks teams use to sign players and free up salary cap space. You might want to share this with Rod Graves because you are the only two people on earth who don't know this besides a few people in China. Also Hood has incentives built in to his contract and he won't be the cheap player he was last year.

3/10/2007: Signed a five-year, $15 million contract. The deal included a $2.5 million signing bonus and can be worth $23 million if Hood becomes, and remains, a starter. 2007: $1 million, 2008-2011: under contract

Year Salary
2007 1000000.00
2008 2500000.00
2009 3000000.00
2010 3000000.00
2011 3000000.00

Thanks for the cap lesson. Especially one that everyone already knows about. Everyone has known about the up to 2 player early june 1st designation since I reported it my 2006 cap spreadsheet and 2006 CBA rules announcement. You are selling people very short here concerning their knowledge of the cap.

If you are wanting to cut a guy with June 1st designation, just say so instead of going with it for multiple posts before finally backtracking.

As for if he can make more money or not up to 8 Mill more added to his contract depending on how much he starts it is all a matter of how it is to be paid. Depending on the type of escalator or bonus that he will get for starting that to will count against us if he is cut because he has already earned it, we cannot renege on a bonus that has already been earned.

2. Not if the Cardinals front office thinks like you.

You don't get it. It isn't a matter of thinking like me its a matter of knowing what the Cardinals will do or not do. And they will not sign a Clements type contract this offseason without a doubt. To think otherwise is to just not know anything about this FO or their strategies. If it were up to me I would have signed Clements last offseason.

3. You are right Hood has 28 starts in 5 years and Green has 23 starts in 3 years. Maybe there is not much difference between them. I tend to favor younger players who have more potential.

They dont have 28 and 23 starts. that is how many games they were on the active roster for. Doesnt mean they played. They each have 13 starts to both of their names. Hood is a whole 1 year older, hardly a factor is one having more potential then the other. So you would rather take the lesser player in Green for the in no way certain possibility of potential rather then the player who is already proven with just as much potential and take a dead cap space hit in 2009 because you used the June 1st rule on him.

4. You are right that $15M over 5 years is cheap for a start CB but you get what you pay for. There are some good free agent CB this year and that doesn't happen every year.

Once again Hoods cap savings wont even count for 25% of a new free agent CB that is better then Hood. If you think we can get Asante Samuel for anything less then what Clements got your crazy. Trufant is a pro bowler and will get close to similar numbers. Florence close to 50+ Mill. The guy from the Raiders who opted out of his contract already has the Raiders saying they will franchise tag him. Randall Gay is not better then Hood. You are drastically undervaluing what CB's get in the free agent market, and drastically misreading what the Cards strategy in the free agent market. And you are not correct you do not get what you pay for becuase Hood contract is underpaying him. 2nd in the league in passes defensed and and 9th in Int's is worth a whole lot more.

 

[Zeno]

I cant believe I am debating if we should cut the #2 CB in the league in passes defensed and the #9 CB in INT's. All for only 5 year 15 Million deal.

Why anyone would even talk about wanting him cut looks even more crazy when you put up those numbers. I liked what I saw from him without even looking at the numbers, he isn't Champ Bailey but he isn't Tom Knight either.

 

[TheCardFan]

Hood played very well this year IMO. To get rid of him would be crazy.

Word.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Hood or Green? Hood, no contest. Neither is stellar, but there's just something I like about Hood. I've never cared that much for Green.

I've been a big fan of Shipp. I love his desire, his work ethic, his professionalism and his team first attitude. Unfortunately, he just doesn't have the production to keep a roster spot.

Ditto. Love, love, love Marcel!!! But sometimes love just ain't enough. I hope he signs with another team (that we don't play next year) and does very well.

I really hope we find a way to keep Edge around. Otherwise, even with taking a great RB in the draft, I predict big setbacks with the running game next year.

 

[Bobcat]

Hood or Green? Hood, no contest. Neither is stellar, but there's just something I like about Hood. I've never cared that much for Green.



Ditto. Love, love, love Marcel!!! But sometimes love just ain't enough. I hope he signs with another team (that we don't play next year) and does very well.

I really hope we find a way to keep Edge around. Otherwise, even with taking a great RB in the draft, I predict big setbacks with the running game next year.

Are you nutz...??? Keep Both...!!!

BOBCAT

 

[CorporalCardinal]

Berry (cap number is huge and has not proven to be durable), Berger (need a real punter).

Maybe Shipp, if they find a backup RB, though his ST work may let him hang on.

Rackers if they bring in ANYONE who can kick and hold REAL tryouts.

Biennamen (I probably screwed his name up) is probably gone, we already have two pass catchers at TE, need a blocker.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Thanks for the cap lesson. Especially one that everyone already knows about. Everyone has known about the up to 2 player early june 1st designation since I reported it my 2006 cap spreadsheet and 2006 CBA rules announcement. You are selling people very short here concerning their knowledge of the cap.

If you are wanting to cut a guy with June 1st designation, just say so instead of going with it for multiple posts before finally backtracking.

As for if he can make more money or not up to 8 Mill more added to his contract depending on how much he starts it is all a matter of how it is to be paid. Depending on the type of escalator or bonus that he will get for starting that to will count against us if he is cut because he has already earned it, we cannot renege on a bonus that has already been earned.



You don't get it. It isn't a matter of thinking like me its a matter of knowing what the Cardinals will do or not do. And they will not sign a Clements type contract this offseason without a doubt. To think otherwise is to just not know anything about this FO or their strategies. If it were up to me I would have signed Clements last offseason.



They dont have 28 and 23 starts. that is how many games they were on the active roster for. Doesnt mean they played. They each have 13 starts to both of their names. Hood is a whole 1 year older, hardly a factor is one having more potential then the other. So you would rather take the lesser player in Green for the in no way certain possibility of potential rather then the player who is already proven with just as much potential and take a dead cap space hit in 2009 because you used the June 1st rule on him.



Once again Hoods cap savings wont even count for 25% of a new free agent CB that is better then Hood. If you think we can get Asante Samuel for anything less then what Clements got your crazy. Trufant is a pro bowler and will get close to similar numbers. Florence close to 50+ Mill. The guy from the Raiders who opted out of his contract already has the Raiders saying they will franchise tag him. Randall Gay is not better then Hood. You are drastically undervaluing what CB's get in the free agent market, and drastically misreading what the Cards strategy in the free agent market. And you are not correct you do not get what you pay for becuase Hood contract is underpaying him. 2nd in the league in passes defensed and and 9th in Int's is worth a whole lot more.

I can't believe anyone is crazy enough to get into a salary cap argument with joe

 

[CorporalCardinal]

I can't believe anyone is crazy enough to get into a salary cap argument with joe

I think he has a death wish

 

[spanky1]

P Mitch Berger
DE Bertrand Berry
LB Blackstock
QB Tim Hasselbeck
S Terrence Holt
RB Edgerrin James
WR Bryant Johnson
S Bhawoh Jue
DT Ross Kolodziej
WR Sean Morey
QB Tim Rattay
OT Oliver Ross
RB Marcel Shipp
WR Jerheme Urban

and maybe k Neil Rackers.

That's 15 players and the real total is likely to be higher. 8-8 teams don't get better by keeping injury-prone players, ageing declining performance players or marginally productive players.

skkorp,

Respectfuly.....it's too early to give up on Blackstock. The kid is coming along. James is needed for at least one more year. And I would keep BJ, if he's not about to be a hot over priced commodity. JMHO!

 

[Skkorpion]

skkorp,

Respectfuly.....it's too early to give up on Blackstock. The kid is coming along. James is needed for at least one more year. And I would keep BJ, if he's not about to be a hot over priced commodity. JMHO!

spanky, grrr, it's not about what I think, it's what I think Whisenhunt will do based on everything I've read, heard and observed.

Judge it that way. Do yours that way and see what you come up with.

 

[Goodyear Card]

Why anyone would even talk about wanting him cut looks even more crazy when you put up those numbers. I liked what I saw from him without even looking at the numbers, he isn't Champ Bailey but he isn't Tom Knight either.

Zeno,

Stats don't always tell the complete story. The best CB usually have lower stats because QB don't throw to their side of the field. We had the 28th ranked passing defense in yards allowed and we haven't had a good #1 CB since Aeneas Williams left. If we are going to move to the next level we need replace average players with high quality starters. By cutting Holt and Hood I was showing how we could free up $4.5M to help sign a quality #1 CB. It would most likely cost $8-10M to sign a free agent CB. I think we need to improve the secondary dramatically and signing a #1 CB would be a good step.

 

[Goodyear Card]

I think he has a death wish

All I did was show how we could free up cap space to sign a free agent CB. both of our CB are average and we need a #1 CB to improve the defense. What's wrong with that?

 

[DaisyCutter]

All I did was show how we could free up cap space to sign a free agent CB. both of our CB are average and we need a #1 CB to improve the defense. What's wrong with that?

I don't think that anyone's denying that we HAVE the cap space to sign a high-profile FA cornerback. I think that we all understand that the Cards aren't going to do so.

Partly, I'd guess, based on the contract they gave to Duane Starks and didn't get much back from.

 

[Zeno]

Zeno,

Stats don't always tell the complete story. The best CB usually have lower stats because QB don't throw to their side of the field. We had the 28th ranked passing defense in yards allowed and we haven't had a good #1 CB since Aeneas Williams left. If we are going to move to the next level we need replace average players with high quality starters. By cutting Holt and Hood I was showing how we could free up $4.5M to help sign a quality #1 CB. It would most likely cost $8-10M to sign a free agent CB. I think we need to improve the secondary dramatically and signing a #1 CB would be a good step.

I guess my eyes don't lie from another thread from ESPN.com...

"Asante Samuel allows just 4.5 yards per pass when listed as the main defender in coverage; the only cornerback who did better (minimum 40 passes) was Roderick Hood of Arizona."

So the guy is #1 in the NFL in allowing the least yards per pass thrown at him and he isn't a quality starter? #2 in the NFL in passes defensed #9 in INTs on a team with not much in the way of a pass rush...why again would we even consider getting rid of the guy?

 

[Goodyear Card]

I guess my eyes don't lie from another thread from ESPN.com...

"Asante Samuel allows just 4.5 yards per pass when listed as the main defender in coverage; the only cornerback who did better (minimum 40 passes) was Roderick Hood of Arizona."

So the guy is #1 in the NFL in allowing the least yards per pass thrown at him and he isn't a quality starter? #2 in the NFL in passes defensed #9 in INTs on a team with not much in the way of a pass rush...why again would we even consider getting rid of the guy?

I guess you are right. If you look at the stats he must be the best CB in the NFL. He should have been selected for the Pro Bowl and Defensive Player of the year.

 

[Duckjake]

#9 in INTs on a team with not much in the way of a pass rush

Just a note to let people know there were 14 guys tied for 9th in interceptions.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Holt, Berry, Shipp, Urban, Bienneman, and as much as I hate to say it I don't think Edge is back next year. Hate to lose a back to back 1,100+ yard rusher, especially with no viable backup.

Add Daryl Blackstock to that list. He sucks. I know not everyone thinks he sucks but he has had 3 chances to make his mark, and it seems it is the same mark a dog makes after rubbing his butt on the carpet.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Getting rid of Rod Hood is ridiculous. This is not Madden Football and teams don't get who they want in Free Agency automatically. There are two Free Agent CB that MIGHT do better than Hood in this system. Rod Hood played very well for us this year, and won us a few games as well. Good teams/Winning teams just don't cut a guy like him, or even guys like Eric Green. If a team were to plan to bring in two top flight FA CB that is fine, even though it won't happen and has never happened since I started watching football. If a team thinks a first round CB is gonna come in, start, AND play better than Rod Hood yet again they are wishing for something I have never seen happen.

Furthermore, I don't see where Hood played badly all year. He got beat deep twice ? Is that it? In reality that is high unrealistic standard to hold any CB to. And I know one of those times he got beat deep by Steve Smith, and that can happen to anyone.

Point ? IMHO, cutting Hood or Green would be a HUGE mistake.

Finally, I thought I read someone sarcastically say Hood should be in the Pro Bowl and something nutty like defensive player of the year. I guess it has to be one extreme or the other huh? But to answer the statement.....I would not have been surprised to see Hood as a Pro Bowl Alternate.