What most of the mad people are really mad about? Vent here!

Discussion in 'Phoenix Suns' started by Yuma, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. Raze

    Raze Suns fan since '89

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    That's the impossible part of all this, we don't know the true max value a player has. So we aren't sure what the "true market value" was for guys like TJ and JJ. We're all just guessing (for those that are for or against the moves).

    Obviously if you could read the minds of 29 GMs you could ascertain the max value of an asset. Since that's impossible we have to take educated guesses. And since most GMs aren't going to be honest about it we have to rely on opinions by guys that get paid to evaluate this stuff on TV/Podcasts/Websites (plus, of course, our own evaluations).

    And that's the cruddy part. Most of the "experts" outside of the 30 GMs are panning most of these moves (except for the Saric move. I'm one of the few that didn't love the trade as I value defense more than offense.) So I'm not going out on a limb here about our asset management. Actually this whole thread is based on the opinions of one of these guys who I happen to agree with.

    I totally get the liquefying assets thing to get Rubio. But it wasn't the only way to do it. Johnson was one of a couple of options. That's why guys like Olson are frustrated.

    My frustration is currently isolated to the asset management of all this, not to our current situation. Our team is not all that bad. We did just add the best true PG on the market.
     
  2. Phrazbit

    Phrazbit Registered

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    Didn't bother to read this.

    I was responding to you crapping on Jarome... a pick you previously claimed to like.
     
  3. Phrazbit

    Phrazbit Registered

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    We were not allowed to extend them mid-season, I know I mentioned that whenever I saw it brought up.

    I'd also like to suggest impossible things to demonstrate my GM brilliance.

    Clone Jordan.
     
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  4. 1tinsoldier

    1tinsoldier Registered

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    another analyst agrees with me that the Suns deserve an F:
    https://sports.yahoo.com/tooearly-n...conference-receives-high-marks-210039197.html

     
  5. Hoop Head

    Hoop Head Señor Caca Cabeza Contributor

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    A GM that doesn't realize extensions cannot be handed out at the time you wanted them to be done. We couldn't extend Holmes because we didn't have his bird rights and Oubre was on a rookie scale contract this past season and the Suns had to wait until the season was over and the moratorium past to sign him to an extension. So neither extension could have taken place this last season.

    See the highlighted "Rookie scale extension" for Oubre's deal and right below that how it mentions having a players bird rights to offer an extension, which is what would be needed with Holmes.

    Screen Shot 2019-07-10 at 4.21.57 PM.png


    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q58
     
  6. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    I value Johnson more than most because he can play both guard positions and he will likely back up Booker so I'd like to keep him. His expiring contract helps next summer and perhaps at the trade deadline as well.

    The Suns are only one signing away from have a good off season but of course I'm still waiting.
     
  7. ASUCHRIS

    ASUCHRIS ONE HEART BEAT!!!

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    Yes - we drafted Ayton/Bridges last year, and just signed Booker to a max extension. Would you honestly consider anyone else on the roster a core player?


    All true - that said, after watching the current FO manage cap space and our picks, I'm not terribly confident in their ability.


    You paint a much rosier picture of our young talent than I believe is warranted. Booker is obviously a star, (although he's proven nothing other than being the best player on horrific teams), Ayton has underwhelmed, while showing signs of progress. Bridges is an excellent defender, but it's yet to be seen whether he can even progress to a top 3/D guy.

    Other than that, where's the upside? I'm genuinely curious.

    Again - yes, this team is deeper and more balanced, (with a middling but credible PG) but what is the goal here? To no longer be a complete embarrassment? Is an aspirational 30 wins and a bottom 5 record really where we're at now?

    Sadly, outside of Booker/Ayton, there really is not much about this current group that offers much hope for the present, let alone the future.
     
  8. Proximo

    Proximo Registered

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  9. 1Sun

    1Sun Banned

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    For those trades, you need something of value to exchange for any player worth trading for...
     
  10. Proximo

    Proximo Registered

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    Ayton has not underwhelmed. His stats were better than AD and comparable to Towns rookie years. He is super efficient around the basket and a very good rebounder. I have zero doubt he will be an all-star.

    I think Saric has upside. I think Kaminsky has upside. I think Lecque, Jerome, and Johnson all have upside.

    We won't really know till we see the team play for sure.
     
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  11. 1Sun

    1Sun Banned

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    Again, I don't think it's that simple. I think the question is whether the Suns improved enough in exchange for what they gave up for that improvement, as well as whether the Suns demonstrated competence and good judgment in the process. That is where I think the Suns have failed if they do not re-sign Oubre.
     
  12. 1tinsoldier

    1tinsoldier Registered

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    again, whether the Suns roster got better or worse, Jones earned an F for failing to execute better deals (too little value for Warren, JJ, Melton and 5 picks, lost Holmes, overpaid Rubio, overvalued Cam)

    signing Oubre was a minimum requirement of the off-season and they still haven't got that done -- F, even if he signs now
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  13. 1Sun

    1Sun Banned

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    Another oversimplification. I can like Jerome as a prospect but at the same time think that his ceiling is as a solid back-up and that the Suns therefore gave up way too much to draft him.
     
  14. Proximo

    Proximo Registered

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    They gave up 3 2nd rounders that arguably they should not have.

    Truthfully look at what the last 10 2nd rounders have amounted too - basically nothing. It's not as bad as you make it seem, although I get we could get lucky on one of those - but it is very unlikely.
     
  15. ASUCHRIS

    ASUCHRIS ONE HEART BEAT!!!

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    It's weird - I agree with you about Ayton, but disagree that he wasn't underwhelming. His stats were obviously great, but I'd imagine most fans expected more. Hopefully he makes a leap in the 2nd year.

    While I appreciate your enthusiasm regarding the upside of the other pieces, I think it's safe to say that none of the guys you mentioned will ever be quality starters. Hope they prove me wrong!
     

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