What most of the mad people are really mad about? Vent here!

Discussion in 'Phoenix Suns' started by Yuma, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. 1tinsoldier

    1tinsoldier Registered

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    this time last year, the hiring of Igor was widely perceived as a positive, myself included

    during the season, filling the point guard hole with Rubio was widely frowned upon (you included 1sun)
    i know because i suggested Rubio (before i saw him in action a couple of games midseason)

    btw, i also advocated trading Warren when his stock was at it's highest last season and suggested Jackson for a variety of trades when his stock was high
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  2. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    This is a valid point. I'm glad you brought it up.

    A new GM might not understand the market. This could have happened with James Jones much like Steve Kerr attaching two first round picks to move Kurt Thomas. I don't think Kerr realized Thomas had postive value. I bet he wouldn't do that again.
     
  3. JCSunsfan

    JCSunsfan Registered User

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    I flip flopped on Rubio. However, with the addition of the shooting this summer, Rubio now makes more sense.
     
  4. Ouchie-Z-Clown

    Ouchie-Z-Clown I'm better than Mulli!

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    But that’s why you pay GM. Literally anyone could sell low and have add assets to rid themselves of a player. If your GM isn’t better than “it’s hard to know ahead of time” it’s time to get a new GM.
     
  5. Raze

    Raze Suns fan since '89

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    Actually I mostly agree. I was purely arguing from an asset by asset position. The team, as a whole is better next year. But the argument has been made by numerous experts that they could have done better (including an amateur like myself). A lot better.

    I'm not arguing where we are, I'm arguing how much better off we could have been.
     
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  6. 1Sun

    1Sun Banned

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    Again, given how this offseason was handled and is being handled, how could anyone possibly say that the Suns did "exactly as I like"???

    I have maintained from day one that while I like Jerome overall as a prospect, he has way too many question marks regarding how his game will translate to the NBA to be projected as a potential starter and therefore was not worth the haul the Suns paid to get the pick to draft him.

    Here is what the Suns have netted from this offseason:

    A legitimate, albeit below average, starting point guard.
    Two back-up power forwards, one average one for a single year and one below average one for two years.
    Two back-up point guards.
    A back-up wing shooting specialist.
    A below average back-up center for a single year.

    Here is what the Suns have given up this offseason:

    A legitimate starting small forward.
    A back-up point guard.
    An above average back-up center.
    A below average back-up power forward.
    A head case wing who still has all-star potential talent.
    An average back-up shooting guard.
    A future first round pick (from Milwaukee).
    A 2019 high second round pick.
    A 2021 second round pick.
    A 2022 conditional second round pick.
    All of their cap space.
    All of their trade assets.

    Meanwhile, here were the Suns needs heading into this offseason (with + meaning the need has been filled, ? meaning the need remains and - meaning that the need is now even greater):

    Starting Point Guard +
    Back-Up Power Forward +
    Character/Leadership in the Locker Room +
    Passing +
    Shooting +
    Starting Power Forward ?
    Rebounding -
    Rim Protection/Shot Blocking/Interior Defense (Whatever you want to call it) -
    Athletic Talent -
    Scoring -
    Defense -

    Remove a re-signed Oubre from the equation, and I don't see how that could be anything but an F, given that the Suns acquired relative to what they gave up this offseason, and given the number of needs that went unaddressed or exacerbated despite what the Suns gave up this offseason. And that's without factoring in how clumsily Jones handled the vast majority of his transactions, how he miscalculated the Suns' cap room and ended up making a desperation trade as a result, how poorly the Oubre negotiations will have been handled if this happens, and the fact that Jones was actually targeting the likes of Terry Rozier and Cory Joseph before he lucked into Rubio.

    Now, IF Oubre re-signs, then we don't add a second starting wing among what the Suns have given up, and Athletic Talent, Rebounding and Scoring go from "-" to "?", which in my opinion results in a "C" offseason.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
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  7. 1Sun

    1Sun Banned

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    This. 1,000 times this.
     
  8. Ouchie-Z-Clown

    Ouchie-Z-Clown I'm better than Mulli!

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    Yeah I get that.
     
  9. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    Hopefully there is a learning curve but my patience has limits especially when it comes to keeping Oubre on a multi-year contract.

    Rubio and Oubre is not that hard. The Suns could have been a player for other free agents if they were not willing to pay him.
     
  10. ASUCHRIS

    ASUCHRIS ONE HEART BEAT!!!

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    Well said. Nobody is arguing that the team isn't better - last year was an unmitigated disaster, and it would be almost impossible to be worse.

    That said - what's the goal and what's the vision? The end result of all these machinations is a really bad team, with Booker/Ayton/Bridges really the only pieces of consequence. We maxed out our cap, traded away all our assets, and for what? Fighting our asses off for 30 wins and what?

    There's no reason to think we'll be anything other than a bottom 5 team this year, and all our acquisitions have pretty much ensured we'll remain irrelevant, with little upside on the roster.

    James Jones showed nothing as a GM in an interim role (other than gifting his buddy Tyson Chandler, and accidentally trading for Oubre), and a universally panned offseason is certainly not encouraging.

    McD and his rebuilds were a disaster, but at least they gave some hope.
     
  11. CardsSunsDbacks

    CardsSunsDbacks ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    All of our core pieces are young, still developing and on the roster for multiple more years and we are set up to have a lot of cap space next off season as well. We still have all of our own first round picks.

    I fail to see this absolutely hopeless position that you are speaking of. We have a young developing roster with a ton of upside and a lot of cap flexibility moving forward. All of that is while also having put together a much deeper and more balanced roster with a legit starting PG to boot.
     
  12. 1Sun

    1Sun Banned

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    For me, it's about what we netted in exchange for what we gave up, what we could (and should) have netted instead, and how James Jones implemented that process.
     
  13. 1Sun

    1Sun Banned

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    As they noted on two different shows on KTAR today, the Suns are in grave danger of having money next summer and nobody on whom to spend it. This was the summer to acquire talent, not next summer (especially since we no longer have anything of value to trade in exchange for talent, should we decide to go the trade route and absorb the talent into our cap space).
     
  14. 1tinsoldier

    1tinsoldier Registered

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    also, the "hindsight", "no one could have predicted" defense doesn't suffice either

    a few here would insist i'm no genius but in addition to multiple posts of me suggesting selling Warren and Jackson high, i several times suggested extending the contracts of Holmes and Oubre (relatively low) mid-season when they had demonstrated they were high energy, defensive minded players.

    1tin for GM 2020
     
  15. CardsSunsDbacks

    CardsSunsDbacks ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    Except there is more value to cap space than just signing free agents. Such as making trades where you take back much more salary than you send out. Cap space is only a bad thing if you both have nowhere to spend it and decide to use it unwisely just for the sake of using it.
     

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