Waiting to trade Crowder

Mainstreet

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I am more thinking about what hole they want to fill. Not much point in getting say Kuzma if Cam is back.

I personally think another ball handler is our biggest need.

I agree, another ball handler that can shoot is the Suns biggest need. I think another power forward is their second biggest need.

There is no reason the Suns can't fill both needs.

The Suns have Crowder and Saric to trade and an open roster spot as well perhaps for a buyout.
 

Covert Rain

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To say Craig's resurgence has been huge in terms of making up for Crowder is an understatement. It actually helps the Suns not to make a rash move with Crowder.

Per-36 minute comparison:
Torrey Craig (2022-23): 11.8 PPG 7.6 RPG 2.3 APG 1.2 BPG 48/39/77 shooting splits
Jae Crowder (2021-22): 12.1 PPG 6.8 RPG 2.4 APG 0.6 BPG 39/34/78 shooting splits
 

JCSunsfan

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I agree, another ball handler that can shoot is the Suns biggest need. I think another power forward is their second biggest need.

There is no reason the Suns can't fill both needs.

The Suns have Crowder and Saric to trade and an open roster spot as well perhaps for a buyout.
Looking really honestly. The Suns biggest need is another star player. I am not sure we can count on CP3 to be a star player anymore. That leaves Book as a #1 player and Ayton as a #3 player. They need a third star who is better than Ayton. Could that be a player on the roster? I suppose, but I just don't see Mikal as a #2 player in a championship level three star situation. He is one of those highly valuable role players that is essential. If they really want to contend, they need a star level player. That will require rolling the dice on giving up a lot of future for a KD or taking a huge risk on a star that is injury prone like AD.
 

Proximo

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Looking really honestly. The Suns biggest need is another star player. I am not sure we can count on CP3 to be a star player anymore. That leaves Book as a #1 player and Ayton as a #3 player. They need a third star who is better than Ayton. Could that be a player on the roster? I suppose, but I just don't see Mikal as a #2 player in a championship level three star situation. He is one of those highly valuable role players that is essential. If they really want to contend, they need a star level player. That will require rolling the dice on giving up a lot of future for a KD or taking a huge risk on a star that is injury prone like AD.
Call me crazy, but I think Ayton can be that #2 guy. If Markannan can suddenly get way better, so can he.
 

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Looking really honestly. The Suns biggest need is another star player. I am not sure we can count on CP3 to be a star player anymore. That leaves Book as a #1 player and Ayton as a #3 player. They need a third star who is better than Ayton. Could that be a player on the roster? I suppose, but I just don't see Mikal as a #2 player in a championship level three star situation. He is one of those highly valuable role players that is essential. If they really want to contend, they need a star level player. That will require rolling the dice on giving up a lot of future for a KD or taking a huge risk on a star that is injury prone like AD.

Unfortunately, star players are hard to find unless the Suns find another aging one like Chris Paul.

I look at the team in terms of pillars.

Right now those players are Booker, Bridges and Ayton. I haven't discounted Chris Paul as one of those pillars this season, although a lot will depend upon his health. Cam Johnson could become one as well.

I don't want to be redundant, but the Suns current needs are another playmaker/shooter and a power forward. IMO, they need not be stars.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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You don't do a deal that gives the defending champs life. I don't mind trading within the conference or division if we are not contending, but not with a team we could meet in the playoffs.
I would do it for kuminga
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Looking really honestly. The Suns biggest need is another star player. I am not sure we can count on CP3 to be a star player anymore. That leaves Book as a #1 player and Ayton as a #3 player. They need a third star who is better than Ayton. Could that be a player on the roster? I suppose, but I just don't see Mikal as a #2 player in a championship level three star situation. He is one of those highly valuable role players that is essential. If they really want to contend, they need a star level player. That will require rolling the dice on giving up a lot of future for a KD or taking a huge risk on a star that is injury prone like AD.
I agree. It’s someone who has the ability the get their own shot with regularity. We really have no player with on ball speed. Someone that when the offense breaks down - or finds themselves facing a defense they can’t solve (Dallas) - that can break down the defense no matter how it’s being played. If Ayton had handles or could consistently pin defenders and make clean catches in the post and draw contact he could be that like an old school inside-out alternative. But he does none of those things consistently. Book is the only one that comes close. And even he can be somewhat stymied if the defense concentrates on him and deploys a long superior athlete on him and he’s not hitting his midrange. And no one else on the team has consistent enough handles/speed/moves to break down a defense single-handedly. No one else is capable of playing hero ball but book (Paul could, to a degree, but depending on that seems done). Someone mentioned Malik monk. He’d be a great heater off the bench in that role.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Call me crazy, but I think Ayton can be that #2 guy. If Markannan can suddenly get way better, so can he.
I think markenaan has more skills. He came into the league being capable of shooting the three and putting the ball on the floor. It’s year five and Ayton really isn’t a threat to do either of those.

That said, Ayton could be the guy if (a) he could successfully pin defenders on his back and catch passes inside; and (b) draw fouls. Unfortunately, although he’s improved on (a), he’s still not very good at either.
 

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Looking really honestly. The Suns biggest need is another star player. I am not sure we can count on CP3 to be a star player anymore. That leaves Book as a #1 player and Ayton as a #3 player. They need a third star who is better than Ayton. Could that be a player on the roster? I suppose, but I just don't see Mikal as a #2 player in a championship level three star situation. He is one of those highly valuable role players that is essential. If they really want to contend, they need a star level player. That will require rolling the dice on giving up a lot of future for a KD or taking a huge risk on a star that is injury prone like AD.

Last like 6.games Ayton is a legit number 2 and possibly a 1. The Nets are going to regret not taking Ayton when they sell KD for pennies
 

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I think markenaan has more skills. He came into the league being capable of shooting the three and putting the ball on the floor. It’s year five and Ayton really isn’t a threat to do either of those.

That said, Ayton could be the guy if (a) he could successfully pin defenders on his back and catch passes inside; and (b) draw fouls. Unfortunately, although he’s improved on (a), he’s still not very good at either.

Aytons issues aren't skill based it's effort. I love Markannen and he isn't in the league of Ayton from a natural skill set
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Aytons issues aren't skill based it's effort. I love Markannen and he isn't in the league of Ayton from a natural skill set
I think you’re confusing physical traits with skills. Physical traits you either have or not. Skills you develop. That’s not to say Ayton doesn’t possess skills, he does. His midrange jumper and hook are absolutely deadly. But he is reliant on people getting him the ball and effectively making himself available for those shots. He really can’t take anyone, even lumbering centers, off the dribble consistently. He still isn’t automatic sealing a defender and receiving a pass into the post (but as i said earlier he improved both those traits). And his three ball really isn’t a weapon any defender needs worry about.

Embiid doesn’t have an issue sealing and receiving passes. He can take a defender off the dribble. It’s what makes him a superstar. Markennan can do both too, but with much less strength. But he’s usually being guarded by smaller players, so it plays to his versatility.

I’m not saying Ayton couldn’t be a #2. I’m saying to be a true, high level #2 he would still have to either further hone his seal and receive and create contact or develop handles. He’s capable of both, but both require work and determination.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Markannen is shooting 52% when his career average is 45%.

That's crazy
I think that’s either ridiculous amounts of offseason practice or he’s being deployed differently in the offense to better suit his skills. I’m leaning the latter.
 

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I think you’re confusing physical traits with skills. Physical traits you either have or not. Skills you develop. That’s not to say Ayton doesn’t possess skills, he does. His midrange jumper and hook are absolutely deadly. But he is reliant on people getting him the ball and effectively making himself available for those shots. He really can’t take anyone, even lumbering centers, off the dribble consistently. He still isn’t automatic sealing a defender and receiving a pass into the post (but as i said earlier he improved both those traits). And his three ball really isn’t a weapon any defender needs worry about.

Embiid doesn’t have an issue sealing and receiving passes. He can take a defender off the dribble. It’s what makes him a superstar. Markennan can do both too, but with much less strength. But he’s usually being guarded by smaller players, so it plays to his versatility.

I’m not saying Ayton couldn’t be a #2. I’m saying to be a true, high level #2 he would still have to either further hone his seal and receive and create contact or develop handles. He’s capable of both, but both require work and determination.

Yes I am absolutely merging skill with talent. You are correct here
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Yes I am absolutely merging skill with talent. You are correct here
No doubt Ayton has talent in spades. Greek freak level? No. But he could easily be the equivalent of a baby embiid if he developed his skills. He won’t be as massive as embiid, but I think he’s be more explosive. Ooooohhh what he could be.
 

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No doubt Ayton has talent in spades. Greek freak level? No. But he could easily be the equivalent of a baby embiid if he developed his skills. He won’t be as massive as embiid, but I think he’s be more explosive. Ooooohhh what he could be.
Thing is that he has these skills. But the ball does not flow to him. Embiid is the #1 option the Phillies offense. Ayton is not even in the top three of the Suns offense. Ayton does not demand the ball, the coach does not game plan it, and other player are launching threes with Ayton clearly ready to operate inside. IfAyton is even going to be a 2or 3 option, a whole lot is going to have to change- but it's not his skills.
 

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Markannen is shooting 52% when his career average is 45%.

That's crazy

He’s this years Julius Randle IMO. He’s a good player but let’s see how he does as a top option when the book gets out on him and he starts to become the focal point of defenses.

I would love to have him he’s the perfect 4 for us.
 

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Thing is that he has these skills. But the ball does not flow to him. Embiid is the #1 option the Phillies offense. Ayton is not even in the top three of the Suns offense. Ayton does not demand the ball, the coach does not game plan it, and other player are launching threes with Ayton clearly ready to operate inside. IfAyton is even going to be a 2or 3 option, a whole lot is going to have to change- but it's not his skills.

I think you’re both right. Ouchie saying Ayton isn’t good at sealing his man is true, now he’s light years better at it than he was his first year but still not as good as we would like.

You’re also right Monty has no interest in running the offense through him and we all know making adjustments isn’t really Monty’s thing.
 

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In the above video, James Jones is so calm when it comes to talking about Jae Crowder. Yeah, like we are paying him but the Suns need to find the right fit before they trade him.

I admire this quality, but at the same time it frustrates me a bit because he never tips his hand.

I wouldn't want to play poker with Jones.
 

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