Tied 1-1, Mavs fan asks, Is This Series Really Even?

[M3Man]

Since you were all so nice to me last time I started a thread here, I thought I'd try another.

The Suns got the split they wanted in Dallas. Now all they have to do is hold serve. Confidence on this board is sky high. But so is mine. Here's why.

The Mavs played a horribile game 1, gave up 70 plus points in the paint, and still should have won. You'll credit the undeniable greatness of Steve Nash. I just remind you that it took 4 turnovers in the last 2 minutes, 3 of them totally unforced, to open the window Stevie sneaked through. Playing close to their best, PHX hasn't really outplayed the Mavs yet.

Our defense is just beginning to figure out the Suns. It is impossible to simulate the speed and style of PHX in practice. But in 5 or 7 games, we don't have to, so it gets easier. In game 1, Marion was able to sneak out for several dunks. Not in game 2, as the Mavs learned the lesson of getting back in just 1 game. In 2003, when Nash led the Mavs to the WCF, we started the season with 14 straight wins. Nobody could cope. But as the season went on, and we played teams the 3rd and 4th times, they started to figure it out.

Speed. Most teams PHX plays can't keep up, even if they know how, because they lack the speed. Not so with Dallas. In game 1, the Suns ran wild, but they didn't run away. Man for man, Dallas can match your speed. In game 2, Dallas used that speed to get back on D. The layup line in the paint disappeared, as did the easy assists for 3's. Even if a Sun gets open, theres a Mav lunging towards him. Theres a huge difference between wide open, and open but rushed. This series will depend on PHX 3 point shooting. We hear there is magic in the walls of your arena, that makes the shots go in. There'd better be.

Depth. Responding to my previous post, some said in the playoffs it doesn't matter because everyone just shortens their bench. Not the Mavs. Depth gives Avery many options, and he's not afraid to use them. He can put a quick defender on Nash 1 series and a long one on the next. Damp too slow, Van Horn too bad? Lets try Diop. If the Suns figure that out, we can still go small with Dirk still the tallest guy on the court. Howard goes down, we still have his twin, Daniels, who has yet to contribute. The Mavs still have Terry, Stackhouse, Daniels and Van Horn who have yet to get hot. Against San Antonio, each one had at least 1 big offensive game. Its like Russsian roulette. You never know where the killer shot is coming from. ANd we haven't even had to uncork Adrian Griffin as a defensive stopper yet. I expect Avery to try to exploit PHX lack of a bench by having Dirk keep pounding on Marion, and having his point guards force Nash off a million hard picks to tire them both out.

Diop. If he can stay on the court, PHX is in big trouble. I saw an entire team intimidated by the 4th quarter, and why not. In Diop's appearance in the 1st quarter, he blocked TT and Barbosa, defended Marion on the pick and roll and inspired a 14-0 run. He also defended Nash and Diaw into jumpers so ugly, it looked like Van Horn shot them. He did all that in 6 minutes, when he also got 5 rbnds and a dunk. He looked like Hakeem without the offense. It will be interesting to see how D'Antoni adjusts. But the presence of the shot blocker gives all the perimeter players freedom to defend more aggressively. I noticed in game 2, Thomas hit 4 threes, the rest of the team, only 6. If Marion and Barbosa don't get easy drives for layups, they better hit those 3's. At the end of game 2, when Steve drove the lane, Diop just towered over him. He got to the rim, but passed out to Barbosa. Clang. Game over. Just imagine if he'd been in at the end of game 1.

Dirk v Marion. I told you guys Dirk spent all season working on abusing small forwards. I told you after Bowen, Marion would seem like a vacation. OK. we still lost game 1, so thats my only I told you so. Dirk hasn't even tried a 3. I think the game plan includes making Marion work on every possession. Hard to leak out for easy dunks when a 7 footer is backing you down.

Fear. PHX is one scary team. The offense is awesome. Defenses can't afford to take off even a part of a play. The Mavs saw at the end of game 1 what happens if they relax. PHX saw at the end of game 2 what happen if they don't. They will play every game with that fear. Fortunalty, Johnson's whole approach on defense is to demand players don't take plays off. I doubt if you guys have seen many teams get back on D as well as the Mavs did in game 2. That was not a fluke. That is now Mavs Basketball.

Home court. Had it. Lost it. So what. Never had it against San Antonio. Beat the champs twice in their house, including game 7 in overtime. Don't expect the Mavs to wilt under pressure. Better hope for more 3 point magic. That's what scares me the most.

Coaching. I assume D'Antoni was joking when he said Diop scored 4, and had no impact. If not, get him a Tivo, so he can watch Suns fleeing the paint like fleas off a freshly sprayed dog. The Mavs played Suns ball and should have won game 1. They adjusted and played Mavs ball and won game 2. D'Antoni must find a way to run Diop off the court. As he did against the Spurs, Avery has shown great creativity with his adjustments. Starting Van Horn was a disaster. His matdor defense put the Mavs in a 12-5 hole. Then Avery adjusts with Diop and goes on the 14-0 run. After game, 1, I guess D'Antoni didn't think he needed to make any adjustments. Maybe he still doesn't. I hope so, but you can't be coach of the year like that. I expect something great from him and the Suns. But I also expect the Mavs to be able to handle it.


I have too much respect for the Suns offense to actually feel confident. But I feel very good about our chances.

You guys did a fine job of telling me why I was wrong before. Lets see what you got now.

 

[Gorilla]

The way you feel about game 1, I feel about game 2. The Suns were without Raja Bell, Leandro Barbosa had a game to forget and still we were a shot or two at the end to take this game away.

You guys pride on the way your coach makes adjustments, we have the same confidence in Coach D that he will have his troops ready for game 3. Plus this team has something no coach can teach...... a lot of heart!!

GO SUNS!!

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Since you were all so nice to me last time I started a thread here, I thought I'd try another.

The Suns got the split they wanted in Dallas. Now all they have to do is hold serve. Confidence on this board is sky high. But so is mine. Here's why.

The Mavs played a horribile game 1, gave up 70 plus points in the paint, and still should have won. You'll credit the undeniable greatness of Steve Nash. I just remind you that it took 4 turnovers in the last 2 minutes, 3 of them totally unforced, to open the window Stevie sneaked through. Playing close to their best, PHX hasn't really outplayed the Mavs yet.

Our defense is just beginning to figure out the Suns. It is impossible to simulate the speed and style of PHX in practice. But in 5 or 7 games, we don't have to, so it gets easier. In game 1, Marion was able to sneak out for several dunks. Not in game 2, as the Mavs learned the lesson of getting back in just 1 game. In 2003, when Nash led the Mavs to the WCF, we started the season with 14 straight wins. Nobody could cope. But as the season went on, and we played teams the 3rd and 4th times, they started to figure it out.

Speed. Most teams PHX plays can't keep up, even if they know how, because they lack the speed. Not so with Dallas. In game 1, the Suns ran wild, but they didn't run away. Man for man, Dallas can match your speed. In game 2, Dallas used that speed to get back on D. The layup line in the paint disappeared, as did the easy assists for 3's. Even if a Sun gets open, theres a Mav lunging towards him. Theres a huge difference between wide open, and open but rushed. This series will depend on PHX 3 point shooting. We hear there is magic in the walls of your arena, that makes the shots go in. There'd better be.

Depth. Responding to my previous post, some said in the playoffs it doesn't matter because everyone just shortens their bench. Not the Mavs. Depth gives Avery many options, and he's not afraid to use them. He can put a quick defender on Nash 1 series and a long one on the next. Damp too slow, Van Horn too bad? Lets try Diop. If the Suns figure that out, we can still go small with Dirk still the tallest guy on the court. Howard goes down, we still have his twin, Daniels, who has yet to contribute. The Mavs still have Terry, Stackhouse, Daniels and Van Horn who have yet to get hot. Against San Antonio, each one had at least 1 big offensive game. Its like Russsian roulette. You never know where the killer shot is coming from. ANd we haven't even had to uncork Adrian Griffin as a defensive stopper yet. I expect Avery to try to exploit PHX lack of a bench by having Dirk keep pounding on Marion, and having his point guards force Nash off a million hard picks to tire them both out.

Diop. If he can stay on the court, PHX is in big trouble. I saw an entire team intimidated by the 4th quarter, and why not. In Diop's appearance in the 1st quarter, he blocked TT and Barbosa, defended Marion on the pick and roll and inspired a 14-0 run. He also defended Nash and Diaw into jumpers so ugly, it looked like Van Horn shot them. He did all that in 6 minutes, when he also got 5 rbnds and a dunk. He looked like Hakeem without the offense. It will be interesting to see how D'Antoni adjusts. But the presence of the shot blocker gives all the perimeter players freedom to defend more aggressively. I noticed in game 2, Thomas hit 4 threes, the rest of the team, only 6. If Marion and Barbosa don't get easy drives for layups, they better hit those 3's. At the end of game 2, when Steve drove the lane, Diop just towered over him. He got to the rim, but passed out to Barbosa. Clang. Game over. Just imagine if he'd been in at the end of game 1.

Dirk v Marion. I told you guys Dirk spent all season working on abusing small forwards. I told you after Bowen, Marion would seem like a vacation. OK. we still lost game 1, so thats my only I told you so. Dirk hasn't even tried a 3. I think the game plan includes making Marion work on every possession. Hard to leak out for easy dunks when a 7 footer is backing you down.

Fear. PHX is one scary team. The offense is awesome. Defenses can't afford to take off even a part of a play. The Mavs saw at the end of game 1 what happens if they relax. PHX saw at the end of game 2 what happen if they don't. They will play every game with that fear. Fortunalty, Johnson's whole approach on defense is to demand players don't take plays off. I doubt if you guys have seen many teams get back on D as well as the Mavs did in game 2. That was not a fluke. That is now Mavs Basketball.

Home court. Had it. Lost it. So what. Never had it against San Antonio. Beat the champs twice in their house, including game 7 in overtime. Don't expect the Mavs to wilt under pressure. Better hope for more 3 point magic. That's what scares me the most.

Coaching. I assume D'Antoni was joking when he said Diop scored 4, and had no impact. If not, get him a Tivo, so he can watch Suns fleeing the paint like fleas off a freshly sprayed dog. The Mavs played Suns ball and should have won game 1. They adjusted and played Mavs ball and won game 2. D'Antoni must find a way to run Diop off the court. As he did against the Spurs, Avery has shown great creativity with his adjustments. Starting Van Horn was a disaster. His matdor defense put the Mavs in a 12-5 hole. Then Avery adjusts with Diop and goes on the 14-0 run. After game, 1, I guess D'Antoni didn't think he needed to make any adjustments. Maybe he still doesn't. I hope so, but you can't be coach of the year like that. I expect something great from him and the Suns. But I also expect the Mavs to be able to handle it.


I have too much respect for the Suns offense to actually feel confident. But I feel very good about our chances.

You guys did a fine job of telling me why I was wrong before. Lets see what you got now.

You should feel very good but not too confident this series is going 7 games the refs will make sure of it.

 

[JAndrews]

this is a funny post, geez are u sure your a mavs fan. Going by what you've typed the suns shouldn't even show the next 4 games. COME ON, your team is not the best team, first, you cant match up man to man, (eg. Boris Diaw) second your team does not have the speed you claim, third stackhouse vanhorn who are they? terry where was he?the suns missed baskets not due to the mavs D but missed shots. Open i may add. the suns played very well in game 2 without probably their best 3 point shooter. LB did not play well, however house is getting his shot back and JJ is playing aggressive. Your over confident and i certainly hope the mavs are thinking the same for the next 4 games. the mavs could have very well lost that game if not for missed shots by the suns.
suns win in 6 due to having home court.

 

[elindholm]

The way you feel about game 1, I feel about game 2.

Right, exactly. I thought that Dallas was the better team in Game 1 and Phoenix was the better team in Game 2. So a split seems about right, even though the results ended up being backward.

As for other points:

Speed. I'd say the Mavericks are nearly as fast. The Suns' advantage is that their players can all shoot well, although they haven't shown that particularly well so far. Van Horn and Stackhouse are the kind of players that will have one or two good games in a series and otherwise stink it up.

Depth. The Suns used seven players last game and the Mavericks used eight. "Depth" doesn't count if some of your players (like Dampier) never get off the banch. If you want to call it "flexibility" instead, fine. The Suns will be at equal strength if Bell and Kurt Thomas return, but if not, this is an advantage for Dallas.

Diop. He played well, but I'm not sure how much of an intimidator he was. James Jones had six blocks, and I didn't exactly see the Mavericks cowering in fear in his presence.

Nowitzki vs. Marion. Nowitkzi is a better player. The Suns don't need to win this matchup; they only need it to be close. So far, it is.

Fear. "I doubt if you guys have seen many teams get back on D as well as the Mavs did in game 2." This is laughable. The Lakers and Clippers both did a better job of defending the Suns early in those series. Phoenix missed a ton of open shots in Game 2 and still scored 98 points. The real "fear factor" will show up at the end of the series. Dallas looked absolutely terrified trying to close out the Spurs, and tried every possible way to cough it up. Nowitzki finally came up tough at the end of Game 7, but if not for that, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Home court. The Suns lost it in both of their earlier series, so evidently it's not critical to them either. Perhaps you caught Game 6 against the Lakers, or Game 3 against the Clippers?

Coaching. You seem fixated on the delusion that Diop was causing the Suns to miss open three-pointers. I don't understand that at all. The Suns outscored Dallas in the paint in Game 2. The Mavericks can do a better job of denying the Suns open looks, I'm sure, but having Diop guard the basket probably isn't a key element of the strategy.

With Bell out, Dallas is a better team. If the Suns can make it to 2-2 and get Bell back for Game 5, it's anyone's game. Otherwise it will be an uphill battle.

 

[jbeecham]

M3Man: The Mavs played a horribile game 1, gave up 70 plus points in the paint, and still should have won. You'll credit the undeniable greatness of Steve Nash. I just remind you that it took 4 turnovers in the last 2 minutes, 3 of them totally unforced, to open the window Stevie sneaked through. Playing close to their best, PHX hasn't really outplayed the Mavs yet.

Everyone keeps saying that Dallas outplayed us yet we still won game 1, which is crap. Sure they had a lead at the end, but we had a lead the almost the whole game. We shot a higher fg%, shot better from 3 (although bad for us 33%), took more fts 29-23 (which amazingly changed drastically in game 2 despite having as many points in the paint as Dallas we got outshot 36 to 11 in fts.....the deciding factor in game 2), we had almost double the assists of the mavs 24 to 13, had less turnovers and more blocks.

Our defense is just beginning to figure out the Suns. It is impossible to simulate the speed and style of PHX in practice. But in 5 or 7 games, we don't have to, so it gets easier. In game 1, Marion was able to sneak out for several dunks. Not in game 2, as the Mavs learned the lesson of getting back in just 1 game.

You have to hope you're starting to figure us out, but I haven't seen the Mavs playing their vaunted new and improved defense yet. In fact the TNT analysts were laughing about neither team playing any defense at all. Maybe all of the talk Dallas does about it playing defense are what got them all of the calls in game 2.

Speed. Most teams PHX plays can't keep up, even if they know how, because they lack the speed. Not so with Dallas. In game 1, the Suns ran wild, but they didn't run away. Man for man, Dallas can match your speed. In game 2, Dallas used that speed to get back on D. The layup line in the paint disappeared, as did the easy assists for 3's. Even if a Sun gets open, theres a Mav lunging towards him. Theres a huge difference between wide open, and open but rushed. This series will depend on PHX 3 point shooting. We hear there is magic in the walls of your arena, that makes the shots go in. There'd better be.

Every team has figured out how to stop our breakaway dunks, they stop trying to get offensive rebounds.....that was Dallas's big adjustment and it's the same thing every team has done. It had nothing to do with Dallas's speed, they had 4 guys run back on defense as every shot went up. The only guy going for offensive rebounds was Diop and he got a few by going over the back of Suns players of pushing them under the basket from behind. Oh and we still had 21 fast break points in game 2.

Depth. Responding to my previous post, some said in the playoffs it doesn't matter because everyone just shortens their bench. Not the Mavs. Depth gives Avery many options, and he's not afraid to use them. He can put a quick defender on Nash 1 series and a long one on the next. Damp too slow, Van Horn too bad? Lets try Diop. If the Suns figure that out, we can still go small with Dirk still the tallest guy on the court. Howard goes down, we still have his twin, Daniels, who has yet to contribute. The Mavs still have Terry, Stackhouse, Daniels and Van Horn who have yet to get hot. Against San Antonio, each one had at least 1 big offensive game. Its like Russsian roulette. You never know where the killer shot is coming from. ANd we haven't even had to uncork Adrian Griffin as a defensive stopper yet. I expect Avery to try to exploit PHX lack of a bench by having Dirk keep pounding on Marion, and having his point guards force Nash off a million hard picks to tire them both out.

Dallas played 9 guys in the game, but only 6 for good minutes......doesn't seem like their using their depth. KVH played 15 min but was fairly ineffective, as was Griffin. Daniels wasn't in the game long enough to have an impact, but I agree that he could be effective in this series. Normally playing the Suns is like Russian Roulette as well because Nash & Marion get thier points and someone else always comes us big (Tim Thomas or Leandro or Bell or Diaw and usually their all in double digits) and also House & James Jones can come in and give us 10-20 points.

Diop. If he can stay on the court, PHX is in big trouble. I saw an entire team intimidated by the 4th quarter, and why not. In Diop's appearance in the 1st quarter, he blocked TT and Barbosa, defended Marion on the pick and roll and inspired a 14-0 run. He also defended Nash and Diaw into jumpers so ugly, it looked like Van Horn shot them. He did all that in 6 minutes, when he also got 5 rbnds and a dunk. He looked like Hakeem without the offense. It will be interesting to see how D'Antoni adjusts. But the presence of the shot blocker gives all the perimeter players freedom to defend more aggressively. I noticed in game 2, Thomas hit 4 threes, the rest of the team, only 6. If Marion and Barbosa don't get easy drives for layups, they better hit those 3's. At the end of game 2, when Steve drove the lane, Diop just towered over him. He got to the rim, but passed out to Barbosa. Clang. Game over. Just imagine if he'd been in at the end of game 1.

Diop was effective because the refs let him be. If they called him for over the back fouls/loose ball fouls, illegal screens and defensive 3 seconds then he would've been out of the game. Lets go back to 36fts to 11fts for the Suns and 24 fouls against the Suns to 12 fouls against Dallas.....the deciding factor in the game.

Dirk v Marion. I told you guys Dirk spent all season working on abusing small forwards. I told you after Bowen, Marion would seem like a vacation. OK. we still lost game 1, so thats my only I told you so. Dirk hasn't even tried a 3. I think the game plan includes making Marion work on every possession. Hard to leak out for easy dunks when a 7 footer is backing you down.

Marion's still playing him well and if Dirk wasn't allowed to travel on every post move and shuffle his feet as he catches the ball (which Marion was called for travelling for doing) then Marion's defense would be even more effective.

Fear. PHX is one scary team. The offense is awesome. Defenses can't afford to take off even a part of a play. The Mavs saw at the end of game 1 what happens if they relax. PHX saw at the end of game 2 what happen if they don't. They will play every game with that fear. Fortunalty, Johnson's whole approach on defense is to demand players don't take plays off. I doubt if you guys have seen many teams get back on D as well as the Mavs did in game 2. That was not a fluke. That is now Mavs Basketball.

We're without Bell, everyone's playing more minutes. We got our 3pt shooting going with 10-23 3ptrs (without Bell). Like I stated before, every team has gotten back on the Suns to slow down fast break attempts by not going for offensive rebounds, yet we still had 21 fast break points. If the Suns had gotten more calls and shot 24 ft's instead of 11 then the mavs would be down 0-2.

 

[M3Man]

After our series against SA, I had to quit playing blame the refs. One game we got 20 more FT's, the next we got 20 less than the Spurs. The Mavs always plan to get into the bonus. Thats why Dirk and Terry and Howard attck the basket so relentlessly. I''ll give you a few Dirk superstar shuffle calls, but on DiopI disagree. He's a no name, no respect from the refs guy, but also a very athletic shotblocker. Its not over the back when you're 5 inches taller.The ball just gets to your hands before the little guy can get to it.

If the Mavs hold the Suns to 21 fast break points every game I would be extremely happy.

Raja's return would help a huge amount, because this series will likely come down to 3 point shooting, and without him there to make the extra pass to, its a lot easier to cover.I kno its tough losing a key guy, but look at the Mavs. We just got Van Horn back after breaking his hand. He's played so bad, irs been like having an extra Suns playr in the game, so its really a wash.

What the Mavs have learned is its about getting stops when you need them, specifically at the end of the 4th quarter. TT and Barbosa had some very makable 3's, Marion had a makable layup. But all could see the Defense flying at them, and they missed. Because they looked open, it doesn't look like good D. But its what the Spurs have been doing for 5 years. Stay close until the 4th quarter, then get a few extra stops. Even when you are beat, keep hustling, something good will come from it.

 

[Ryanwb]

You like oriental girls?

http://www.sggirls.com/?action=profileview&username=m3man

 

[az1965]

Ryan - you stalker!


Good find, man!!

 

[SirStefan32]

Hey M3Man,

First of all, let me say I think they should hqave left your original thread in the Suns forum. You are probably the most civilized and articulate fan of another team that I've ever seen on this board (along with LSM).

Now, let me say that I am impressed with your team, especially Howard and coach Johnson. Little General has outcoached Mike D'Antoni so badly that it's embarassing.

You guys are playing smart basketball. You slow the game down, dictate the tempo (last night Suns had 4 fastbreak points) you are running when you get a chance to. I am impressed.

Diop is a major factor. He doesn't need to block shots to impact the game. I remember 4 times Suns ran into him and threw a bad shot (Nash once, Barbosa once and Diaw twice) I am surprised that coach D hasn't figured out how to counter Diop.

Having said all that, Phoenix was outplayed twice and they had a chance to win both games they lost. How they manage to stay close when they are getting outplayed is beyond me. If I were a Mav's fan, I'd be happy and optimistic, but very very careful. Phoenix is one dangerous team. They played like crap, yet if it wasn't for Tim's turnover and a crappy call (ball not hitting the rim) they would have been in a position to win the game.

One thing is for sure- great series, and I look forward to game 4.

Stefan