Thunder @ Suns Sunday game thread, 11-12-2023

Phrazbit

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These guys spend the entire off season playing pick up games and then come into the season already busted up.

It is really stupid, in my opinion.
 

nashman

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These guys spend the entire off season playing pick up games and then come into the season already busted up.

It is really stupid, in my opinion.
Book wasn’t busted up he injured himself in the first game, terrible luck but didn’t enter the season busted up. We lost because we were 2-21 in the 4th from the field that’s a freaking joke! Someone has got to make shots 2 FGs in a quarter just let that sink in!!!!
 

Phrazbit

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Book wasn’t busted up he injured himself in the first game, terrible luck but didn’t enter the season busted up. We lost because we were 2-21 in the 4th from the field that’s a freaking joke! Someone has got to make shots 2 FGs in a quarter just let that sink in!!!!

Wear and tear and fatigue make one more susceptible to injury.

I am not saying Booker got hurt because he doesn't allow himself an off season, or Beal either... or that Durant seems gassed in the second of games and we're only a few weeks in... but I don't think it helps.

These guys should use the off season to let their body recover. Stay in shape, sure, but they don't need to be busting their ass against other NBA guys in random gyms all summer... it's just asking for problems.
 

nashman

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Wear and tear and fatigue make one more susceptible to injury.

I am not saying Booker got hurt because he doesn't allow himself an off season, or Beal either... or that Durant seems gassed in the second of games and we're only a few weeks in... but I don't think it helps.

These guys should use the off season to let their body recover. Stay in shape, sure, but they don't need to be busting their ass against other NBA guys in random gyms all summer... it's just asking for problems.
Book has always done this that’s why he progresses every year as a player you have to work on your craft. Any basketball player can get hurt at any time it’s just bad luck usually. Now Beal and Durant I can somewhat agree but Durant is who he is also because he grinds and works in his game all the time. It sucks guys are hurt but we are losing because guys aren’t making shots in the 4th! I mean damn dude we made 2 FGs the entire 4th that’s unheard of BAD!
 

clyde2tw

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The same problem in the 4th qrt meltdowns: the other team scores with high efficiency meaning our defense is bad, and at same time our off. efficiency sucks despite not having Okogie in there.
Beal is apparently tired in the 2nd halves, the way he moved on court and many his shots hit just the front of the basket. But the way he dribble drives and the space created thereby indicates, that he is exactly what we need as the 3rd creator out there. We just need him fully healthy and teammates are accustomed to his styles.
Vogel has been experimenting with players and our injury situation sucks. I'm still patient to see whether we install better fitting O and D schemes to realize the roster potential optimally.
 

Sparky16

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Devin Booker will give the Suns more help at point guard, but this is definitely a weakness when Beal and Booker are both not playing. The Suns do not have a closer at the moment.

Nurkic is too slow footed but the Suns FO knew this when they made the Ayton trade.

If Frank Vogel should go, let's bundle James Jones as well.
I will give jones credit of not wanting Bridges in the deal for KD
 

Chaplin

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8-8….. This was the start to the Suns season when we last went to the finals…..

But… We had a point guard on that squad…
And yet, we still started 8-8. Can’t put the “turnaround” on the PG when we started with that record WITH that same point guard.
 

Proximo

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Book wasn’t busted up he injured himself in the first game, terrible luck but didn’t enter the season busted up. We lost because we were 2-21 in the 4th from the field that’s a freaking joke! Someone has got to make shots 2 FGs in a quarter just let that sink in!!!!
I agree, but I still maintain the majority of the shots we are putting up in the 4th quarters are not good shots.

Basically other teams are ramping up their defenses in the 4th and we seemingly aren't able to handle it effectively.
 

Proximo

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Just gotta keep thinking about the Bog 3, because the first time we saw them together in preseason they dominated. Gotta hold out hope that’s coming soon.
Well I do think Booker is the absolute key to our offense.

That said it's pretty pathetic we have to have him to have a chance to win against decent teams. It's really unacceptable actually.
 

Chaplin

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Well I do think Booker is the absolute key to our offense.

That said it's pretty pathetic we have to have him to have a chance to win against decent teams. It's really unacceptable actually.
Oh for sure. Problem is last night at least Beal was less than half the player because of his back and the role players are asked to be finishers and they can’t be. The only role player that can MAYBE do that is the inconsistent Eric Gordon and he wasn’t even playing last night!

Doesn’t help that there are no in game adjustments outside of a little alteration of the substitution pattern to get KD in at the start of the 4th. Still didn’t work.
 

BirdGangThing

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We have a 4th quarter problem - not a certain player problem - not a certain position problem

Many different players in the game during 4th quarters but results are the same - no defense and no offensive production

This team has to figure out how to close and it eventually will - especially with Book coming back

And I'm not gonna even touch the Vogel comments lol - if you guys wanna start calling for the coach's head already (and again) then go for it - knock yourselves out
 
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Mainstreet

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The Suns are the worst 4th quarter team in the NBA.

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Mainstreet

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Phoenix has too much talent to be losing these games.

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Mainstreet

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Bradley Beal aims to "be smart moving forward" apparently referring to his back.

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CardsSunsDbacks

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Phoenix has too much talent to be losing these games.

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There is just no excuse for this team's 4th quarter performance so far this year. Book or no Book.

Sure it will likely be better when Book get's back, but we need to do better right now.

I suppose it makes some sense that the 4th would be the quarter where lack of chemistry would be most evident as it tends to be the most contested and physical quarter of the game. :shrug:
 
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Mainstreet

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There is just no excuse for this team's 4th quarter performance so far this year. Book or no Book.

Sure it will likely be better when Book get's back, but we need to do better right now.

I suppose it makes some sense that the 4th would be the quarter where lack of chemistry would be most evident as it tends to be the most contested and physical quarter of the game. :shrug:

Only my opinion, but I think Kevin Durant tends to run out of gas in the 4th quarter and there is no one else to stabilize the team with Booker out. Maybe Bradley Beal can become this person, maybe not.

After two losses to the Spurs one has to ask, how much of it is coaching. It's not like the Suns don't have enough talent to win because they do. They do lack a rudder at point guard and Nurkic is looking slow against quick, athletic teams.
 

Hoop Head

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Only my opinion, but I think Kevin Durant tends to run out of gas in the 4th quarter and there is no one else to stabilize the team with Booker out. Maybe Bradley Beal can become this person, maybe not.

After two losses to the Spurs one has to ask, how much of it is coaching. It's not like the Suns don't have enough talent to win because they do. They do lack a rudder at point guard and Nurkic is looking slow against quick, athletic teams.

I think coaching is a problem but I don't solely blame Vogel. As I've said, Kevin Young's offense appears nonexistent. It's horrible ISO ball. We've won 2 of our 4 games by last minute layups by Nurkic on broken plays, essentially. So what sort of offensive guru is Young, exactly?

The defense is bad but I think part of that can be attributed to guys being so disheartened by being crushed in the 4th quarter. When you only make 2 FG's in the 4th quarter as a team, of course everyone is dejected and their confidence is shot. The 7 Seconds Or Less Suns were more enthusiastic on defense than this squad because at least they were in good spirits and had a plan as soon as they got control of the ball, run! Maybe this team should adopt something like that. I dont know.


As I've said, I'm not putting this on Vogel. The only guys I put blame on outside of the players are Kevin Young and James Jones. Young for the atrocious offense. I dont care if Booker isn't there. He should have sets for KD and Beal since Booker isn't expected to be playing 48 minutes a night. James Jones for the awful roster construction, again. He does not like or want PF's at all, he's avoided them every year he's been here. He also seems to think 2 SG's make a PG and that isn't the case, especially when we're talking about reserves. I know Ishbia is active as an owner but I also don't believe he's forced JJ to make certain moves and avoid certain types of players. Trading Cam Payne in salary dump was stupid, wasting a roster spot on Bol Bol was also dumb, and entering the season with 1 real Center in Nurkic, an undersized backup in Eubanks, and no other player who fits Vogel's style was as foolish as only have 1 PG on the roster, a throw in from the Beal trade in Goodwin, who is a 2nd year player. I like Goodwin a lot but without a true PG to mentor him I feel we're setting him to fail.
 

leclerc

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Eddie Johnson I think it was mentioned that they are planning to give Metu a chance. He will probably play in the front court, so hopefully he can contribute there.

I think we played better this game, but again, fourth quarter was not good. Improvement from Okogie and I think Goodwin had a pretty good game. Looking forward to the next one. We should win at least every third or fourth game, right? Right?

And Chet Holmgren is a nice player, but that beard does not do him any favors. Just because he can grow a beard does not mean he should.
 
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Mainstreet

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It's hard to identify with this team with so many new players. Hopefully this will change as the season progresses.

Devin Booker and Josh Okogie are the primary mainstays from last season. And Booker has only played two games thus far.

Kevin Durant was added near the trade deadline last season and Saban Lee (TW) is a limited contributor.

Damion Lee has been out this season with an injury.

The Suns even have a new owner and a new head coach. However, this is not meant to be an excuse. The Suns have had preseason and 10 regular season games to fix it.
 
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Mainstreet

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Eddie Johnson I think it was mentioned that they are planning to give Metu a chance. He will probably play in the front court, so hopefully he can contribute there.

I think we played better this game, but again, fourth quarter was not good. Improvement from Okogie and I think Goodwin had a pretty good game. Looking forward to the next one. We should win at least every third or fourth game, right? Right?

And Chet Holmgren is a nice player, but that beard does not do him any favors. Just because he can grow a beard does not mean he should.

The Suns are a sieve inside defensively, except for Drew Eubanks. I'd like for Metu to be the answer but I do not have any confidence this will be the answer.
 
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Mainstreet

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I think coaching is a problem but I don't solely blame Vogel. As I've said, Kevin Young's offense appears nonexistent. It's horrible ISO ball. We've won 2 of our 4 games by last minute layups by Nurkic on broken plays, essentially. So what sort of offensive guru is Young, exactly?

The defense is bad but I think part of that can be attributed to guys being so disheartened by being crushed in the 4th quarter. When you only make 2 FG's in the 4th quarter as a team, of course everyone is dejected and their confidence is shot. The 7 Seconds Or Less Suns were more enthusiastic on defense than this squad because at least they were in good spirits and had a plan as soon as they got control of the ball, run! Maybe this team should adopt something like that. I dont know.


As I've said, I'm not putting this on Vogel. The only guys I put blame on outside of the players are Kevin Young and James Jones. Young for the atrocious offense. I dont care if Booker isn't there. He should have sets for KD and Beal since Booker isn't expected to be playing 48 minutes a night. James Jones for the awful roster construction, again. He does not like or want PF's at all, he's avoided them every year he's been here. He also seems to think 2 SG's make a PG and that isn't the case, especially when we're talking about reserves. I know Ishbia is active as an owner but I also don't believe he's forced JJ to make certain moves and avoid certain types of players. Trading Cam Payne in salary dump was stupid, wasting a roster spot on Bol Bol was also dumb, and entering the season with 1 real Center in Nurkic, an undersized backup in Eubanks, and no other player who fits Vogel's style was as foolish as only have 1 PG on the roster, a throw in from the Beal trade in Goodwin, who is a 2nd year player. I like Goodwin a lot but without a true PG to mentor him I feel we're setting him to fail.

It's hard for me to separate James Jones from Kevin Young and Frank Vogel. They are all part of the problem.
 

GatorAZ

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If I remember correctly Nurse was the hot commodity this summer and he didn’t take the Suns job. Young was a “up-in-commer” yet he stayed for Vogel. Nurse’s team is among the best in the NBA. There was a reason why he was the number one coach and Vogel wasn’t.

I think Ishbia had a stipulation that any coach has to keep Kevin Young on staff and Nurse gave him the dueces. The Sixers are pretty much the same team they’ve been for a couple years minus the huge Harden distraction. I’m not surprised they look great.
 
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