Theory on Murray

Devilmaycare

Chief Brah Officer
Moderator
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Posts
6,389
Reaction score
9,025
Location
Scottsdale
Disagree. Kyler, while not endearing himself to anyone has proven he can play in the NFL...none of the guys in the draft have.

Plus he is still under 30. Tenured coaches feeling some heat would much rather bet on a known commodity than gamble on an unproven rookie.

Some really great QB prospects have flamed out simply because the game didn't slow down for them when they got to the pros

Exactly, Kyler is a known quantity and can show he can play with varying levels of success. When you're talking 4, 5, and 6th QBs taken you're in Josh Rosen quality if you're lucky. I'm not the biggest Kyler fan but I'd take him over anything but the top 2.
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
16,792
Reaction score
13,483
Location
Modesto, California
Exactly, Kyler is a known quantity and can show he can play with varying levels of success. When you're talking 4, 5, and 6th QBs taken you're in Josh Rosen quality if you're lucky. I'm not the biggest Kyler fan but I'd take him over anything but the top 2.
right?? so if a team at say...pick 12 or 15 needs a QB... they can trade 2 firsts and 2 seconds..maybe more... to move into the top 2 picks... or drop a few picks on Kyler and not have to wonder if he can play pro ball.... I think Kyler has decent value but he will still be cheaper than trading for the first pick...and the Cardinals already paid his bonus so his contract isnt terrible.
 

Garthshort

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Posts
9,204
Reaction score
5,234
Location
Scarsdale, NY
Kyler just turned 26... Williams 22 and Maye 21.

One season eating a legendary cap hit would suck...but if this past draft works out we wouldn't be too far behind with a QB on a rookie deal.
Mobile quarterbacks rarely have long careers...

So, we don't take the hit and we get maybe another 5 or 6 years with a guy who still hasn't proven he is the one.
Or, we take the hit ...draft Maye...and give a fresh guy a chance to prove he is the one.... But have him for likely 15 years if he is.

By my math, there has to be a perfect storm for Kyler to remain . I'm neither for nor against but it would be dishonest to say I have faith or trust in a guy whose crowning achievement was one half of an MVP season in which he routinely left plays on the field.
Wasn't Kyler the Offensive Rookie of the Year?
 

football karma

Happy in the pretense of knowledge
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
14,957
Reaction score
13,401
I think he was...with 5 wins...IMO the run at MVP was more of an accomplishment.
youtube dropped a 2021 first half Kyler cut up into my feed --

many of the throws he makes are remarkable -- and for all the emphasis on his scrambling ability, many of those remarkable throws were from inside the pocket
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,969
Reaction score
35,878
Location
Colorado
I concur....I will say, though, that even Mayfield (healthy) had some success in this offense and I think it's been mentioned that Kyler is probably a few notches above him...so that may bode well for Murray to get right with this offense.
Baker had success with a top offensive line and Nick Chubb. Also a very talented defense. And an offensive HC who came from being an OC. Asking Kyler to do very little isn't really a great way to showcase his skills.
 

TheCardFan

Things have changed.
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
12,069
Reaction score
14,674
Location
Charlotte
Baker had success with a top offensive line and Nick Chubb. Also a very talented defense. And an offensive HC who came from being an OC. Asking Kyler to do very little isn't really a great way to showcase his skills.

Keep in mind, Baker wasn't getting top 5 QB money. Tough to build a strong OL and defense with that contract (based on starting where we are today).

That Browns offense with Mayfield was the definition of mid.

In their first 4 years in the NFL (minus the rushing stats), Mayfield wasn't that far off of Murray's stat line.
Mayfield threw more TD's and the same yards (also threw more INT's).
 

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
12,252
Reaction score
9,949
Everything you hear from this group is they value process over results. Kingsbury valued results and trusted the players to find the process to get them there.

Kyler’s fundamentals in the drop back and footwork are kind of a mess. He’s not a timing passer. It sure seems like Petzing runs a timing offense.
How can you know what Kyler is capable of, when his only pro coach was Kingsbury?

I am not going to judge him till I see how he plays under this staff.
 

Goldfield

Formally known as BEERZ
Joined
Sep 13, 2002
Posts
10,412
Reaction score
2,077
Location
ASFN
I think our questions will be answered either way in a new offense. I am a believer that what all the analysts and even some players came out and said - the offense became more and more predictable as time went on. DBs could press bc they knew the same players were going to line up in the same spot and run 1 of 3 routes. They also knew it was a swinging gate of an offensive line so there wouldn’t be time to throw much of a deep ball.. let alone an accurate one. Hard to improve if the defense can predict what you are doing more and more as time goes on..

Now if Kyler sucks in a changed offense? We will 100% know he was equally the problem.

I am very curious to find out. I don’t know the answers. I do know he has all the skills in the world to be great. We will see.
I agree with this. We should find out this year unless they don’t play him at all.
 
Last edited:

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,969
Reaction score
35,878
Location
Colorado
How can you know what Kyler is capable of, when his only pro coach was Kingsbury?

I am not going to judge him till I see how he plays under this staff.
You mean the HC who orchestrated top 10 offense in years two of 4 seasons? A HC who was able to facilitate a top 22 NFL offense in the year he got fired and Kyler only played 11 games? And that was with a roster that most on this board thought was so bad it warranted tanking because it was so non-competitive.

Kliff's offense really wasn't THE problem. It was very productive.
 

DaHilg

Hall of Famer
Joined
May 12, 2021
Posts
1,306
Reaction score
1,820
Location
Boston
You mean the HC who orchestrated top 10 offense in years two of 4 seasons? A HC who was able to facilitate a top 22 NFL offense in the year he got fired and Kyler only played 11 games? And that was with a roster that most on this board thought was so bad it warranted tanking because it was so non-competitive.

Kliff's offense really wasn't THE problem. It was very productive.
This might be the most delusional take on this board.. Kliffys offense was the problem. Empty stats between the 20’s doesn’t mean much. I don’t think we need rehash the plethora of points in how ridiculously awful his scheme was/is for the NFL.

Are you poolside with Kliffy and Kiem with this take ? Bc it sure doesn’t make a lick of sense else-wise.
 

CardNots

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Posts
4,029
Reaction score
3,670
Location
Jenks, Oklahoma
I agree with this. We should find out this year unless they don’t play him at all.
When Kyler is activated to practice with the team the coaches will know what they have in Kyler. That is when they will determine the plan going forward. If Kyler doesn’t perform we will not see him this year is my guess. Under these circumstances why would you play him lessening his worth? They will say he isn’t physically back.
 

DaHilg

Hall of Famer
Joined
May 12, 2021
Posts
1,306
Reaction score
1,820
Location
Boston
I can’t imagine them denoting him as Team Captain with zero expectations of him playing this year… and thus not next year.
 

RON_IN_OC

https://www.ronevansrealty.com
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Posts
25,982
Reaction score
33,025
Location
BirdGangThing
This might be the most delusional take on this board.. Kliffys offense was the problem. Empty stats between the 20’s doesn’t mean much. I don’t think we need rehash the plethora of points in how ridiculously awful his scheme was/is for the NFL.

Are you poolside with Kliffy and Kiem with this take ? Bc it sure doesn’t make a lick of sense else-wise.
Kliff's offense wasn't really the problem...Kliff's gameday management/mismanagement was the problem. The biggest reason for empty stats between the 20's was more due to the offense would get rolling down the field and then would shoot itself in the foot with a penalty, bad sack, bad play communication, etc.
 

JohnnyCakes

Alpha Male
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Posts
3,740
Reaction score
2,819
Location
Phoenix
You mean the HC who orchestrated top 10 offense in years two of 4 seasons? A HC who was able to facilitate a top 22 NFL offense in the year he got fired and Kyler only played 11 games? And that was with a roster that most on this board thought was so bad it warranted tanking because it was so non-competitive.

Kliff's offense really wasn't THE problem. It was very productive.
Cant wait to tell my grand children that I was able to say I witnessed Kliff Kingsbury's vaunted #22 Offense in person.

#ThoseWereTheDays
 

DaHilg

Hall of Famer
Joined
May 12, 2021
Posts
1,306
Reaction score
1,820
Location
Boston
Kliff's offense wasn't really the problem...Kliff's gameday management/mismanagement was the problem. The biggest reason for empty stats between the 20's was more due to the offense would get rolling down the field and then would shoot itself in the foot with a penalty, bad sack, bad play communication, etc.
No it was 100% the problem…just stop it. Why are you all still defending Kliffy ???? If those stats were actually meaningful he’d still be in the NFL coaching somewhere today as an individual that HAD no desire to rejoin the college ranks
 
Last edited:

RON_IN_OC

https://www.ronevansrealty.com
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Posts
25,982
Reaction score
33,025
Location
BirdGangThing
No it was 100% the problem…just stop it. Why are you all still defending Kliffy ???? If those stats were actually meaningful he’d still be in the NFL coaching somewhere today as an indivisible that HAD no desire to rejoin the college ranks
You must be registered for see images attach
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,433
Reaction score
27,650
Location
Gilbert, AZ
How can you know what Kyler is capable of, when his only pro coach was Kingsbury?

I am not going to judge him till I see how he plays under this staff.
Old mechanics die hard—ask Tim Tebow. Could be this staff is so settled in their fundamental requirements they won’t bother with Kyler despite nice talk now.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
35,674
Reaction score
32,702
Location
Orange County, CA
Old mechanics die hard—ask Tim Tebow. Could be this staff is so settled in their fundamental requirements they won’t bother with Kyler despite nice talk now.
I think the Cardinals are hedging their bets, but they also want to see if Kyler is the guy. I don't think they have their mind made up either way based on the current talk from the team. It could just be talk, but there are benefits to seeing what Kyler can do in this offense first.
 

urs

All Star
Joined
Sep 15, 2021
Posts
865
Reaction score
2,030
Location
Carefree
You mean the HC who orchestrated top 10 offense in years two of 4 seasons? A HC who was able to facilitate a top 22 NFL offense in the year he got fired and Kyler only played 11 games? And that was with a roster that most on this board thought was so bad it warranted tanking because it was so non-competitive.

Kliff's offense really wasn't THE problem. It was very productive.
In the time it took you to type this Kliff dialed up 2 more WR screens behind the LOS
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,969
Reaction score
35,878
Location
Colorado
Kliff's offense wasn't really the problem...Kliff's gameday management/mismanagement was the problem. The biggest reason for empty stats between the 20's was more due to the offense would get rolling down the field and then would shoot itself in the foot with a penalty, bad sack, bad play communication, etc.
I agree.
 
Top