the "What Ended Season 2022?" thread

big al

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The examples you give demonstrate the Suns are willing to pay players when they feel they are worth a large contract. They opened their pockets much wider than I thought. It makes one question whether they had a legitimate reason for not giving Ayton the max or reaching an agreement for something slightly less.

I do think Cam Johnson will be paid less than Mikal Bridges and I wouldn't disagree with that.
We know something is there to cause the Suns to hesitate on giving Ayton a Max. Luka absolutely does come to play, so does Trae Young , & Ja Morant does also. These young players all come to work. Cam Johnson has shown a sense of urgency to play well also but of course not to the level of the three mention prior.
 
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Yuma

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We know something is there to cause the Suns to hesitate on giving Ayton a Max. Luka absolutely does come to play, so does Trae Young , & Ja Morant does also. These young players all come to work. Cam has shown a sense of urgency to play well also but of course not to the level of the three mention prior.
Luka was getting around Ayton. We almost need Cam to become a better defender. Someone has to guard the Lukas, greek freaks, tatums, of the NBA.
 

Mainstreet

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We know something is there to cause the Suns to hesitate on giving Ayton a Max. Luka absolutely does come to play, so does Trae Young , & Ja Morant does also. These young players all come to work. Cam has shown a sense of urgency to play well also but of course not to the level of the three mention prior.

I really don't know for sure. Maybe developing young players and patience is not the Suns strong point since they gave up on Stix too.
 

big al

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I really don't know for sure. Maybe developing young players and patience is not the Suns strong point since they gave up on Stix too.
I believe you are right mainstreet. The Suns always want a polished really to go player from day 1 after drafting such player. Developing is not something the Suns care to do but player's obligation is to have some drive, determination and willingness to improve coming in because this is The Big Time. Some teams like the Spurs, Warriors, Celtics and a few other NBA teams will nurture, train and develop their prospects if they have potential..
 
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big al

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As I understand it, there was no formal negotiation because Ayton's camp wanted a max extension and it was never on the table real or not.
Ayton & his agent just wasn't going to be a negotiating partner with the Suns in salary contract negotiation. They wanted all or nothing. But does Ayton know good Negotiating involves compromising by all parties to get to a win- win situation? I guess not. More Ayton immaturity. Still hope it plays out well for all however.
 

Mainstreet

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Ayton & his agent just wasn't going to be a negotiating partner with the Suns in salary contract negotiation. They wanted all or nothing. But does Ayton know good Negotiating involves compromising by all parties to get to a win- win situation? I guess not. More Ayton immaturity. Still hope it plays out well for all however.

I would think Ayton's camp has a strategy for free agency even though the Suns can offer him $5 million more than another team on a four year contract.

Maybe the Suns already know he wants a sign and trade.
 

big al

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That's awful...it means they were choosing to play "hero ball."

Personally, I would like to never hear another word about what a great motivator Monty Williams is, because it obviously counts for nothing in practical results. In fact, no: it arguably counts for negative results, considering that the end result of Williams' great motivational speaking skill was his starting backcourt waving off their teammates to play hero ball. These two don't need a motivational speaker, they need a drill sergeant. Probably.

You can say it motivated a 64-18 season (or 65-17, whichever it was), but who cares about the regular season? Other Suns teams that won fewer regular-season games achieved better playoff results. We've seen high 50- and low 60-win seasons before.

As for motivational speaking: if that is all coach can do, he can take his motivational speaking and live in a van down by the river.
It's so much we don't know & probably never will. The Suns seemed to have some serious problems internally.

I really hate to see a coach so completely nice that he causes chaos, a run over me type coach because of lack of respect, a coach that favors some players, and one who can't adjust during the games, a coach who can't make the team focus as a team but rather 12 individuals and it is looking like we might have that in Monty. As nice guys finish last if they don't have discipline & a backbone.

Again this is just speculation. We don't know everything that really happen.
That's awful...it means they were choosing to play "hero ball."

Personally, I would like to never hear another word about what a great motivator Monty Williams is, because it obviously counts for nothing in practical results. In fact, no: it arguably counts for negative results, considering that the end result of Williams' great motivational speaking skill was his starting backcourt waving off their teammates to play hero ball. These two don't need a motivational speaker, they need a drill sergeant. Probably.

You can say it motivated a 64-18 season (or 65-17, whichever it was), but who cares about the regular season? Other Suns teams that won fewer regular-season games achieved better playoff results. We've seen high 50- and low 60-win seasons before.

As for motivational speaking: if that is all coach can do, he can take his motivational speaking and live in a van down by the river.
 
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big al

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That's awful...it means they were choosing to play "hero ball."

Personally, I would like to never hear another word about what a great motivator Monty Williams is, because it obviously counts for nothing in practical results. In fact, no: it arguably counts for negative results, considering that the end result of Williams' great motivational speaking skill was his starting backcourt waving off their teammates to play hero ball. These two don't need a motivational speaker, they need a drill sergeant. Probably.

You can say it motivated a 64-18 season (or 65-17, whichever it was), but who cares about the regular season? Other Suns teams that won fewer regular-season games achieved better playoff results. We've seen high 50- and low 60-win seasons before.

As for motivational speaking: if that is all coach can do, he can take his motivational speaking and live in a van down by the river.

I would think Ayton's camp has a strategy for free agency even though the Suns can offer him $5 million more than another team on a four year contract.

Maybe the Suns already know he wants a sign and trade.
We see soon how it all plays out.
 

Muggz

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Luka was getting around Ayton. We almost need Cam to become a better defender. Someone has to guard the Lukas, greek freaks, tatums, of the NBA.
It's almost like we're missing a position? PF I cant figure it out? PF
If there was only a certain type of player PF, you know just a little bigger than Cam and Chowder PF
that could guard someone that size.
Its a conundrum.
 

Finito

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It's almost like we're missing a position? PF I cant figure it out? PF
If there was only a certain type of player PF, you know just a little bigger than Cam and Chowder PF
that could guard someone that size.
Its a conundrum.

Crowder was pretty damn good in the first 4 games and then just a disaster in the next 3.

He’s just so up and down. It’s like if his shots not falling nothing is working for him.
 

angelofthesouth

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Crowder was pretty damn good in the first 4 games and then just a disaster in the next 3.

He’s just so up and down. It’s like if his shots not falling nothing is working for him.
This would be some justification for moving Crowder to the bench. That's what the team has to do anyway if they want to start a better rebounder at forward. What else would you do, move Mikal Bridges?

By the way, rebounding is one of the reasons one might not want to move DeAndre Ayton. Unlike the Suns' last notable homegrown big guy, Amare Stoudemire (not that he was really a center, regardless of whatever games Mike D'Antoni played), DeAndre Ayton is a fairly good rebounder. Without him, a bad rebounding team would be a much worse rebounding team.
 

Finito

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This would be some justification for moving Crowder to the bench. That's what the team has to do anyway if they want to start a better rebounder at forward. What else would you do, move Mikal Bridges?

By the way, rebounding is one of the reasons one might not want to move DeAndre Ayton. Unlike the Suns' last notable homegrown big guy, Amare Stoudemire (not that he was really a center, regardless of whatever games Mike D'Antoni played), DeAndre Ayton is a fairly good rebounder. Without him, a bad rebounding team would be a much worse rebounding team.

Crowder is by far our weakest link in the starting 5. Keep Ayton or move Ayton we desperately need an upgrade at the 4.

It’s going to be tricky. I seen a Capela and Collins for Ayton deal and I’d do that in a heart beat.
 

angelofthesouth

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Well, isn't it said that Crowder is a strong defender? It's not so much that he's a weak link as: who else are you going to replace at starting forward? Or, for a trade of starters besides Ayton, you wouldn't trade any of the other starters except Crowder. If someone wanted Booker, Paul or Bridges, too bad.

The starters are so locked in that for any trade, I would have to make the bench players available. The rebounding and size are so poor that if someone demanded Cameron Johnson in exchange for a big forward who rebounded and defended well, I might reluctantly take the offer.
 
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big al

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Crowder is by far our weakest link in the starting 5. Keep Ayton or move Ayton we desperately need an upgrade at the 4.

It’s going to be tricky. I seen a Capela and Collins for Ayton deal and I’d do that in a heart beat.
Finito. But would the salaries numbers work? Throw in Dario, Shamet and Cam Payne and then Altanta slams the phone on the Suns.
 

Hoop Head

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Finito. But would the salaries numbers work? Throw in Dario, Shamet and Cam Payne and then Altanta slams the phone on the Suns.

The salary for Collins and Capela for Ayton doesn't work. However it can be 2 deals, one S&T swapping Ayton and Capela. Then a second deal to get Collins. That could be Saric, Cam J, and Payne.

Atlanta is in luxury tax territory and getting Saric's expiring would help. Both Cam's have small deals next season but they desperately need a backup for Trae, Payne might be able to fill that role. Cam J is the main reason they do it. He's the talent and they can work an extension for him.

Some pieces can be swapped as well. We can do Craie instead of either Cam and Crowder in place of Saric.
 

big al

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The salary for Collins and Capela for Ayton doesn't work. However it can be 2 deals, one S&T swapping Ayton and Capela. Then a second deal to get Collins. That could be Saric, Cam J, and Payne.

Atlanta is in luxury tax territory and getting Saric's expiring would help. Both Cam's have small deals next season but they desperately need a backup for Trae, Payne might be able to fill that role. Cam J is the main reason they do it. He's the talent and they can work an extension for him.

Some pieces can be swapped as well. We can do Craig instead of either Craig and Crowder in place of Saric.
Ok thanks. l like them getting Cam Payne instead Cam Johnson because we would be taking Capella 47% free throw percentage. Think about that
 

Finito

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Bickley now saying several suns including Paul were sick may or may not have been Covid
 

Hoop Head

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Ok thanks. l like them getting Cam Payne instead Cam Johnson because we would be taking Capella 47% free throw percentage. Think about that

I think too much is made of Capela's poor FT%. Sure, it sucks but he's done ok with it. He averaged 0.1 fewer FT attempts a game than Ayton last year, 2.3 a game. He's never averaged 4 or more attempts a game in his 8 years in the league. He's not a primary offensive option so he's not targeted much, if at all.

No one worried about playing Biz and McGee in fhe 4th quarter last season, if they did they weren't vocal about it here. Biz is a career 56.4% FT shooter, 53.5% for the season, and Javale a career 60.5% FT shooter, although he shot a 69.9% on the season. Both have started in approximately half the games they've played in their careers, having played in 10 and 13 seasons respectively.

The Suns offense doesn't dump the ball into the Center unless there is an easy basket so teams really can't employ Hack-a-Shaq type strategies.
 

angelofthesouth

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Bickley now saying several suns including Paul were sick may or may not have been Covid
If true, the only thing I could blame them for is failing to communicate that valid excuse.

Come on, fellows, couldn't you just have come out right away and explained you were sick? Everyone would have excused you--we don't blame players for getting sick. Instead, you gave us some bland speechifying excuses that were so insulting we paid no further attention to them; and it left us so bereft of answers that we disseminated stupid stories about the Suns taking bribes from organized crime. Worse, we became fairly certain that this happened because Suns players were fighting amongst themselves.
 

Finito

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If true, the only thing I could blame them for is: Come on, fellows, couldn't you just have come out right away and explained you were sick? Everyone would have excused you--we don't blame players for getting sick. Instead, you gave us some bland speechifying excuses that were so insulting we paid no further attention to them; and it left us so bereft of answers that we disseminated stupid stories about the Suns taking bribes from organized crime. Worse, we became fairly certain that this happened because Suns players were fighting amongst themselves.

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Here’s the clip.
 

Mainstreet

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It's all conjecture until we hear it from someone who actually knows.

A friend of a friend of a friend stuff doesn't cut it.
 

FB94

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Mavs figured the suns out. Paul turned 67 errr 37 and hit the wall, plus we just don’t have consistency in the three point shot. Dallas seemed like they had 10 guys who could come in a hit threes at will. Our defense was awful as well. We came out of the locker room for game 7 crapping diamonds.
 

Finito

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I think too much is made of Capela's poor FT%. Sure, it sucks but he's done ok with it. He averaged 0.1 fewer FT attempts a game than Ayton last year, 2.3 a game. He's never averaged 4 or more attempts a game in his 8 years in the league. He's not a primary offensive option so he's not targeted much, if at all.

No one worried about playing Biz and McGee in fhe 4th quarter last season, if they did they weren't vocal about it here. Biz is a career 56.4% FT shooter, 53.5% for the season, and Javale a career 60.5% FT shooter, although he shot a 69.9% on the season. Both have started in approximately half the games they've played in their careers, having played in 10 and 13 seasons respectively.

The Suns offense doesn't dump the ball into the Center unless there is an easy basket so teams really can't employ Hack-a-Shaq type strategies.

It’s different with Biz and McGee both those guys can fill in but it’s clear they aren’t starters.

You can’t start Capela, Crowder and Bridges that’s just not enough offense. I like Capela but that’s a downgrade at center so if I downgrade center then I would like to upgrade PF.
 

cheesebeef

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If true, the only thing I could blame them for is failing to communicate that valid excuse.

Come on, fellows, couldn't you just have come out right away and explained you were sick? Everyone would have excused you--we don't blame players for getting sick. Instead, you gave us some bland speechifying excuses that were so insulting we paid no further attention to them; and it left us so bereft of answers that we disseminated stupid stories about the Suns taking bribes from organized crime. Worse, we became fairly certain that this happened because Suns players were fighting amongst themselves.
Pretty sure you were the only one guilty of that.
 

Mainstreet

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It’s different with Biz and McGee both those guys can fill in but it’s clear they aren’t starters.

You can’t start Capela, Crowder and Bridges that’s just not enough offense. I like Capela but that’s a downgrade at center so if I downgrade center then I would like to upgrade PF.

If the Suns should trade Ayton they might be best served by adding a forward that can create his own shot.
 
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