the "What Ended Season 2022?" thread

reebokalone2001

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Posts
1,146
Reaction score
1,363
Location
Mesa, Arizona
They guys on the radio were saying the Suns had a legit shot at landing Eric Gordon. I remember thinking at the time that would be huge if we could get him. If the Suns had? I think we are still playing and likely headed for our first title. The Suns didn't want to take on the salary thinking that Paul/Booker would be enough, and that Payne would come around.

UGH!
While that money was comfortably thrown to Shamet.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,836
Reaction score
53,520
yes, in regards to adding a piece, they're saying, "hindsight is 20/20" -- but the history was there and clear to see.

Booker had hamstring issues over multiple seasons, including last year's playoffs, Paul's health risks were similarly known and predictable and Payton and Shamet were consistently unproductive this season before the trade deadline

i remember ranting about Payne being a 3rd string pg -- a CP1 and we needed a CP2 level backup

Payne has moved down my Suns depth chart to 3rd point guard and still I'd want a 4th point guard that can play.

The reason the Suns need so many point guards is few can create their own shot.
 
OP
OP
1

1tinsoldier

Hall of Famer
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Posts
1,463
Reaction score
541
Location
AZ
the "All The Right Moves" clip in the Monty thread clearly outlines the defensive adjustments that Dallas made and adjustments that Monty didn't make -- which was key to Dallas' turn-around. They knew exactly what was working by game 7, and were able to double their blowout from game 6

but it wasn't just Dallas's defense. both games, we missed the good looks we got too, because they broke our spirit
 
OP
OP
1

1tinsoldier

Hall of Famer
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Posts
1,463
Reaction score
541
Location
AZ
a new puzzle piece (pure speculation) to the timeline that ended season 2022:
(as i posted in another thread but is most relevant here)

* after the game 6 blowout the Suns have a heated meeting. Someone (likely Paul) strongly suggested adjustments but Monty strongly suggested they, essentially, shut up and follow his plan, which is to continue to play the Suns ball that got them there -- that they just need to play better, not different. So, when Paul is asked by the media for his opinions, he simply says it's not life or death and i have nothing more to say. When game 7 starts bad, the player's doubts are confirmed and the death spiral begins.
 
OP
OP
1

1tinsoldier

Hall of Famer
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Posts
1,463
Reaction score
541
Location
AZ
and, as is relevant to what's going on in the the "Why..." and "Monty," "Monty and Paul don't like each other," and "Team is breaking up" threads, i have to say i believe it was and still is an OVER-REACTION on everyone's part, including ours.

relationships can't sustain an "everything is beautiful" mindset forever.
it probably ended so bad, because it couldn't keep being so good
-- in a locker room full of elite athlete's egos, strong opinions and body odor

i believe there was and still is an above average degree of love and respect among this group but it was put to the test at the worst time, the honeymoon ended, doubts surfaced, and someone stormed out and mentioned a divorce

but if it was a couple they'd be curled up on the couch with popcorn and Netflix next week. Ayton too. he's just a child who wants to run away from home right now because no one understands him.

but the hard reality is this family has a job to do, and one's too nice, one's too old, one's too young, one misses too many 3's in the first quarter, etc..

and probably for lack of just a few adjustments this week, there will have to be some hard adjustments this summer
 
OP
OP
1

1tinsoldier

Hall of Famer
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Posts
1,463
Reaction score
541
Location
AZ
(pure speculation)
* after the game 6 blowout the Suns have a heated meeting. Someone (likely Paul) strongly suggested adjustments but Monty strongly suggested they, essentially, shut up and follow his plan, which is to continue to play the Suns ball that got them there -- that they just need to play better, not different. So, when Paul is asked by the media for his opinions, he simply says it's not life or death and i have nothing more to say. When game 7 starts bad, the player's doubts are confirmed and the death spiral begins.
tying up 3 more loose ends...

1. another clue is Monty allegedly telling Ayton "you quit" during the game.
it's out of character for Monty to single out and call-out a player
unless
he felt Ayton was being spiteful after a locker-room disagreement about the game plan/execution

2. regarding Payne posting about the injuries to him, Paul, and Booker...
framing that kind of news like a rogue post is a convenient way for the team/their PR people to get the word out without officially making excuses. i do believe they probably had injuries that would have kept 2 of the 3 out during a regular season game. But, it is not uncommon for players to play in big playoff games with, perhaps, similar physical issues

3. the Warriors relatively easy dispatch of the Mavs is further indication of of an "internal issue" being a key part of our collapse
 

Superbone

Phoenix native; Lifelong Suns Fan
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Posts
6,093
Reaction score
3,115
Location
Phoenix, AZ
tying up 3 more loose ends...

1. another clue is Monty allegedly telling Ayton "you quit" during the game.
it's out of character for Monty to single out and call-out a player
unless
he felt Ayton was being spiteful after a locker-room disagreement about the game plan/execution

2. regarding Payne posting about the injuries to him, Paul, and Booker...
framing that kind of news like a rogue post is a convenient way for the team/their PR people to get the word out without officially making excuses. i do believe they probably had injuries that would have kept 2 of the 3 out during a regular season game. But, it is not uncommon for players to play in big playoff games with, perhaps, similar physical issues

3. the Warriors relatively easy dispatch of the Mavs is further indication of of an "internal issue" being a key part of our collapse
Regarding 2, I’ve been told that was a fake.
 

Superbone

Phoenix native; Lifelong Suns Fan
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Posts
6,093
Reaction score
3,115
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Found it. Apparently it was HaterMuse's creation:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 
OP
OP
1

1tinsoldier

Hall of Famer
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Posts
1,463
Reaction score
541
Location
AZ
yeah, i don't think Payne would say, "it's not a fair series." but i still think Paul's hand was an ongoing issue. Booker seemed to be moving well but given his hamstring history it could also have been an issue. I just wish the Suns would do the right thing and let the fans know what was up. I don't recall the details, but there was some reporting of health issues many months after our Finals exit.
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
26,877
Reaction score
8,176
Location
L.A. area
yeah, i don't think Payne would say, "it's not a fair series." but i still think Paul's hand was an ongoing issue. Booker seemed to be moving well but given his hamstring history it could also have been an issue. I just wish the Suns would do the right thing and let the fans know what was up. I don't recall the details, but there was some reporting of health issues many months after our Finals exit.
Lingering injury issues can't explain the difference between a team that won Game 5 handily and was blown off the court in both Games 6 and 7.
 
OP
OP
1

1tinsoldier

Hall of Famer
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Posts
1,463
Reaction score
541
Location
AZ
i get that Suns management would prefer to say no more about the "internal matter" because player problems might damage their trade position and talk of a coaching problem might damage them in several ways. but given the magnitude of the collapse, isn't it potentially more damaging to let fans and other teams and players speculate along the current trajectory?

the reality may be it was just a minor and inevitable letting off of some steam, at the worst possible moment

from a PR standpoint, i think they'd be better off communicating something
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
35,098
Reaction score
13,258
Location
Arizona
Whatever "internal" issue was obviously a factor, but I am a big believer in going into the playoffs with momentum. I think the Suns had none. They lost 4 of 6 games going into the playoffs and played similar looking basketball in the first two rounds never getting back to from the previous 9 game win streak form.
 
Last edited:

GatorAZ

feed hopkins
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Posts
24,645
Reaction score
16,969
Location
The Giant Toaster
Whatever "internal" issue was obviously a factor, but I am a big believer in going into the playoffs with momentum. I think the Suns had none. They lost 4 of 6 games going into the playoffs and played similar looking basketball in the first two rounds never getting back to from the previous 9 game win streak.
We went over this already. Nobody was complaining about momentum after scoring 250 points thru games two vs Dallas or blowing them out by 30 in game 5. They just got big heads and choked.
 
OP
OP
1

1tinsoldier

Hall of Famer
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Posts
1,463
Reaction score
541
Location
AZ
We went over this already. Nobody was complaining about momentum after scoring 250 points thru games two vs Dallas or blowing them out by 30 in game 5. They just got big heads and choked.

i agree with your points of perception.
the concensus was that everything was mostly rosy -- we were on our way to a championship with Paul as MVP -- then a week later the sky was falling with the Suns and Paul washed up

but "big heads" and "choked" needs clarification.
indeed, i think what set off the implosion was the Suns high expectations threatened by the sudden reality that the Mavs had broken their system

... along with the reality that Paul is 37, and Booker and Payne suck as primary ball handlers, and Monty is a player's coach but not a strategist. but those were issues the Suns had plenty of time to deal with before the playoffs began
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,255
Reaction score
15,359
I keep seeing comments that we fell apart the last week or so of the season and IMO that's just not accurate. I started talking about it more than a month before we mailed it in at season's end.

The problem was, we were still winning but we were no longer the team we had been. And that should have been clear to anyone watching this team every night. If it hadn't been for 4th quarter heroics mostly by CP3 we might have lost another dozen games or so after the all star break.

And maybe that's all this is, we had a false sense of invincibility because most nights we'd play uninspired basketball for 3 quarters yet we'd always pull out the victory. And then come the playoffs, for whatever reason, Chris was no longer capable of carrying us late in the games.

But whether it was injury or defensive adjustments or whatever, we got our butts kicked by a team that didn't have anywhere near the weapons we had.
 
Top