The end is near....

[Crazy Canuck]

You know what's sad? This thread has gotten as many replies in a little over 5 days than the entire 2008-2009 season thread got in 7 MONTHS.

Here's the latest:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2009/05/06/sp-bettman-balsillie.html

PS: The commissioner stating that they don't dump out of cities is a joke. Tell that to Hartford, Quebec and Winnipeg.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I must not be part of the internal joke.

???

I responded in the body of your text.

 

[Ryanwb]

I would like to see hockey return to Canada. Outside the members of the original 6 there seems to be little historical significance for American teams

 

[bankybruce]

Shane Doan, one franchise, three cities. That would be funny.

 

[Dback Jon]

BTW - Gambo and Ash are talking about this right now.

And they agree, the location of the arena is a major detriment to the Coyote's ability to draw fans.

 

[bankybruce]

Here's a few things to keep in mind.

A) Gary Bettman was in Phoenix yesterday, ostensibly to put the finishing touches on an intent to purchase agreement from Chicago White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf, whose intention was to apparently keep the financially-troubled Coyotes in Glendale; which is also home to Reinsdorf's spring-training baseball facility that is located less than a mile away from the Coyotes' Jobing.com Arena). That offer was expected to materialize within the next few days.

B) Balsillie is only prepared to pay $212.5 million as long as the franchise is moved to southern Ontario.

This is not something Balsillie can achieve arbitrarily on his own.

C) It is believed widely that Jerry Moyes was not within his rights to file the bankruptcy claim and that he was not in control of the franchise; by virtue of the NHL monies forwarded to the team since October.

D... and this is the kicker...) The Coyotes have a 30 year lease at Glendale Arena, which is almost 100 percent iron clad. IIRC, the city has been paying the team's lease at the arena since it was opened in 2003.

Is it iron clad locked? No. However in order for the lease to be broken, the only way that lease can be broken under these provisions would be for the team's new owner to pay a 750 million dollar fee.

Point here is this: bet your ass that there's going to be a legal fight with the City of Glendale and the NHL vs. Jim Baisille if he chooses to further pursue this.

What's going to wind up happening is, they're going wind up telling him that the team is his only if he keeps it in Phoenix. Baisille will balk at that, mark my words. There's no way in hell that he's going to be able to afford to fight the league or even THINK of paying the fees of a drawn out case, on top of 750 million bucks to break the lease; and the fee he'd be paying to purchase the team. Sorry, Jimmy B's not going to pay over a billion dollars for the Coyotes.

End of the day, I'm telling you this now. I do think a team will be moved to Southern Ontario, but it's not going to be the Coyotes. Now the Islanders, who are playing in a dilapidated, outsourced hell hole, with an owner who's begging for an out?? That's an entirely different story.

I read last month that the lease could be broken at no cost if the team filed bankruptcy and then folded.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

???

I responded in the body of your text.

Saw it now. My apologies bud. I will respond to you momentarily.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

I read last month that the lease could be broken at no cost if the team filed bankruptcy and then folded.

You are correct Bruce, however folding the team isn't an option the NHL is exploring.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

This will certainly be part of the argument from league and others who may support this contention. A court, however, has recognized Mr. Moyes as owner an given him leave to declare bankruptcy. The NHL will no doubt appeal.

Yes sir, which will lead to a long, drawn out procedure that will cost Baisille a truck load of money and may wind up being more of a hassle than moving the Coyotes would be worth.

The lease, I would gather is between the Coyotes i.e. Moyes and the city. As such, they are merely secured creditors in a bankruptcy and, like others, will be receiving a settlement.

I got you. I'm not entirely sure of the specifics of the lease outside of what I posted before. I still can't see that kind of money being sunk in to the team. Jimmy B would be in the brickhouse so far over his head he'd never get out before he even got started with the team.

This scenario ignores Moyes bankruptcy proceeding, which if adjudicated in his favour allows him to accept the Basille offer, and begin the settlement process with creditors.

The NHL board can obviously insist that Basille keep the team in Phoenix, or at least deny him a transfer to his preferred location. He will then, no doubt, walk away. Moyes, who would then be forced to accept a lesser amount for the asset, will sue the league for preventing him from making the sale. Somewhat frivolous, but still a likely response.

This is exactly how I see it playing down. They've got an arena which was specifically built for the team not long ago. Plus, they're in a market which Gary Bettman thankfully wants to see succeed. Thirdly, the team has owners who are committed to keeping the team here in town.

It's an ugly situation, but it reminds me of the one the Penguins went through not long ago, difference being the Coyotes already have the new arena specifically built for them. I see the Yotes sticking around.

I'm inclined to believe that anyone who gets hold of the Coyotes will, in short order, be looking for a way out of town. Kansas city?

The only place I could see the team relocating to is Vegas, and even that's a long shot.

I think at the end of the day, the Coyotes stay in Phoenix. Too many signs are pointing towards it, this whole bankruptcy/sale offer crap notwithstanding.

There is little question that southern Ontario can handle having a second team. The Islander thought is an interesting one.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There is a LOT that goes into the lack of support for the Coyotes...

IMO, when they moved to Phoenix, they had Roenick, Kachuck, Havibooooolin, (I know I butched the spelling of their names, but you get the point), they had STARS... I remember going to the "white out" when I was like 15 with my dad, it was seriously one of the funnest times I have EVER had going to a live sporting event...

Now, I couldn't name more than 1 or 2 coyotes not named Shane Doan. They don't have actual star power, and are extremly medicore... They have not been an exciting team either to boot, which hurts them as well.

They also aren't doing deals like they use to... As an ASU student my Freshman and sophmore year, the Coyotes had a deal that the day of the game, an ASU student could purchase ANY availble lower bowl seat for 25.00. I sat on the glass A LOT that year, something I prolly would not ever get to do normally, they discontinued it, and lost a lot of support that way as well...

I DO NOT believe that location is a major factor in this, the fact is they haven't been here long enough, or won enough to develop a solid fan base... That being said I don't believe they will be leaving any time soon, due to the stadium, and contract with the city...

And mark my words, once the Coyotes turn the corner, and start winning, I will bet anything, the fans will come, hockey is too much fun live for them not to...

agree and disagree.

the fact that the team was pretty good and had stars like tkachuk and roenick made a big difference. getting the playoffs (even to get immediately bounced) made a big difference. and i agree with you . . . the white out was incredible. i did not grow up a hockey fan, but the white out was one of the coolest sporting events of my life.

the fact that the stadium is so far out, however, is definitely a factor. when i lived in phx i worked downtown (across from patriots park). at the end of the day i simply walked out of my building and across the street to the hockey game. for a non-hockey fan it was a joy to attend the game b/c it was so simple. i even had a partial year season package. pretty sure i wouldn't have it if i lived in phx now with the current location of the stadium.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Yes sir, which will lead to a long, drawn out procedure that will cost Baisille a truck load of money and may wind up being more of a hassle than moving the Coyotes would be worth.

It would be Mr. Moyes, not Basille who would have to defend the suit.

I got you. I'm not entirely sure of the specifics of the lease outside of what I posted before. I still can't see that kind of money being sunk in to the team. Jimmy B would be in the brickhouse so far over his head he'd never get out before he even got started with the team.

Again, the lease settlement would fall within the preferred creditors. It falls to Mr. Moyes to settle, not Basillie. Further, the bankruptcy judge has the power to terminate the lease.


This is exactly how I see it playing down. They've got an arena which was specifically built for the team not long ago. Plus, they're in a market which Gary Bettman thankfully wants to see succeed. Thirdly, the team has owners who are committed to keeping the team here in town.

At this point the team is bleeding $$$. Who is prepared to take this on?

It's an ugly situation, but it reminds me of the one the Penguins went through not long ago, difference being the Coyotes already have the new arena specifically built for them. I see the Yotes sticking around.

The other difference, and possibly the most consequential, is that the Penguins had dedicated fans.

The only place I could see the team relocating to is Vegas, and even that's a long shot.

Vegas has been mentioned, but KC has an arena and wants a team.
One possible scenario is the Islanders to KC and the Coyotes to Ontario.

I think at the end of the day, the Coyotes stay in Phoenix. Too many signs are pointing towards it, this whole bankruptcy/sale offer crap notwithstanding.

Have to disagree. All the critical signs I see indicate a departure. There is precisely one offer for the bankruptcy court to judge. It offers the best chance at this point of saving the enterprise and assuring that creditors receive some compensation.

There is little question that southern Ontario can handle having a second team. The Islander thought is an interesting one.

dffdht hjo;o;o;

 

[Gizmo Williams]

I definitely think there are alot of factors are at play with location being one of the major factors. It was not so much where it was but the infrastructure around the stadium.

Jobing.com was definitely built for the corporate ticket holders. I used to share season tickets in the upper deck at AWA and went to numerous games at Jobing.com. The upper deck at Jobing.com was so far removed from the game compared to AWA and other stadiums (The Can, Fleet Center,etc). You really did not feel like you were part of it. However, the location sucks for the corporate guys. Downtown it was convenient to grab a dinner and head over for a game. In Glendale the only dining option for the first few seasons was that Burger King. It was not convenient for wooing clients.

I

 

[Ryanwb]

Has there been one "Save the Coyotes campaign"? I haven't seen any... which is a telling sign.

 

[Hazzard29]

Has there been one "Save the Coyotes campaign"? I haven't seen any... which is a telling sign.

There is a petition going around on HFboards.com right now... which is probably pointless.

 

[AzCards21]

Has there been one "Save the Coyotes campaign"? I haven't seen any... which is a telling sign.

NASCAR or the Mercury would have more people trying to keep them here than the NHL could possibly hope for. Nobody cares.

 

[chickenhead]

End of the day, I'm telling you this now. I do think a team will be moved to Southern Ontario, but it's not going to be the Coyotes. Now the Islanders, who are playing in a dilapidated, outsourced hell hole, with an owner who's begging for an out?? That's an entirely different story.

As an aside, I finally went to my first game at Nassau last month, and I LOVED it. Obviously it's a dump and needs to be replaced, but it totally reminded me of seeing hockey over 20 years ago. I swear I thought I was at Veterans watching the NHL exhibition games they used to have there.

 

[Stronso]

The Islanders have a plan in place to renovate Nassau Coliseum as part of the Lighthouse Project. The city of Hempstead is causing them delays. Word is that Willets Point Queens (right next to the Mets new CitiField) might be the place for a new arena for the Isles. The Isles can then stay on Long Island and keep raking in the big bucks for their local cable contract with MSG

 

[Stronso]

My .02 cents:

Jerry Moyes can go F-himself. If the Coyotes do move I am becoming a Ranger fan and I will wish for the destruction of the old Yotes in every game

 

[sportznutt]

I love and respect all of you here, especially in the Cards' forum, but as a Hamiltonian, I'm praying that if the Coyotes get moved, it is to Hamilton.

 

[Compa]

My .02 cents:

Jerry Moyes can go F-himself. If the Coyotes do move I am becoming a Ranger fan and I will wish for the destruction of the old Yotes in every game

I've been reading/hearing a lot of Moyes hate recently, and I don't totally understand it. He's the one that has put his own money at risk, and while it is probably impossible to know how he will come out of this situation financially, I doubt he is happy about the situation. If not for Moyes, the Coyotes would already be gone. I could better understand some hate for Ellman, since I'm pretty sure he's the one that was really at the helm when the Coyotes went from respectable to irrelevant. But now that Ellman's out of the picture, all the hate goes to Moyes.

 

[chickenhead]

The Islanders have a plan in place to renovate Nassau Coliseum as part of the Lighthouse Project. The city of Hempstead is causing them delays. Word is that Willets Point Queens (right next to the Mets new CitiField) might be the place for a new arena for the Isles. The Isles can then stay on Long Island and keep raking in the big bucks for their local cable contract with MSG

That would be an improvement, IMO. Still near the Jamaica hub for LI residents, and more accessible for NYC residents. I had always thought they should have tried to get involved in Rattner's arena near Atlantic Terminal for the Nets but now it looks like the Nets may end up going to the Devils with hat in hand to play at the Rock.

Just read Dryden's "The Game" for the first time. Kind of eerie the way he discusses the Isles as such a strong team, and the Wings as just a terrible, doomed club (at the time).

 

[Crazy Canuck]

That would be an improvement, IMO. Still near the Jamaica hub for LI residents, and more accessible for NYC residents. I had always thought they should have tried to get involved in Rattner's arena near Atlantic Terminal for the Nets but now it looks like the Nets may end up going to the Devils with hat in hand to play at the Rock.

Just read Dryden's "The Game" for the first time. Kind of eerie the way he discusses the Isles as such a strong team, and the Wings as just a terrible, doomed club (at the time).

PS: Ken was in law school with me (McGill U.)

 

[chickenhead]

Nice! I went to McGill undergrad. But a few years later...I was there when a different Habs goalie got traded to Colorado.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Nice! I went to McGill undergrad. But a few years later...I was there when a different Habs goalie got traded to Colorado.

Ha, ha... more than a few years later and as an old Nordiques fan, I welcomed that trade. Ken is only person I know who was allowed to have an outside job and attend Law school full time.