The Chris Young thread

[Gaddabout]

A lot of people have been bagging on Young's swing, but I think his swing is mostly OK. His biggest problem is he's constantly looking for the fastball to drive, so when he gets late into a count and pitchers are throwing him junk, he gets way out in front of a pitch. You get out on front = pop up about 95 percent of the time. You can even get pop ups when you're late. He just can't square up the off-speed stuff because he doesn't know how to keep his hips from opening up early on them. It's a nuanced timing/rhythm issue, and one of pitch recognition, but one every major leaguer understands. It's how pitchers who don't throw hard or who have great variances in speed can have a career. The great ones will open up, reset, and the slam the off-speed stuff, but very few people on the planet have that kind of bat speed.

I don't think that's something that's easy to teach and if guys haven't learned it by the time they're Chris Young's age, they're unlikely to ever improve. I think Chris Young has become the player he's going to be: He's a see-it, hit-it kind of hitter. I don't see him ever being a guy who thinks much at the plate. Curious if any of you are satisfied with that.

 

[82CardsGrad]

A lot of people have been bagging on Young's swing, but I think his swing is mostly OK. His biggest problem is he's constantly looking for the fastball to drive, so when he gets late into a count and pitchers are throwing him junk, he gets way out in front of a pitch. You get out on front = pop up about 95 percent of the time. You can even get pop ups when you're late. He just can't square up the off-speed stuff because he doesn't know how to keep his hips from opening up early on them. It's a nuanced timing/rhythm issue, and one of pitch recognition, but one every major leaguer understands. It's how pitchers who don't throw hard or who have great variances in speed can have a career. The great ones will open up, reset, and the slam the off-speed stuff, but very few people on the planet have that kind of bat speed.

I don't think that's something that's easy to teach and if guys haven't learned it by the time they're Chris Young's age, they're unlikely to ever improve. I think Chris Young has become the player he's going to be: He's a see-it, hit-it kind of hitter. I don't see him ever being a guy who thinks much at the plate. Curious if any of you are satisfied with that.

You're kidding, right?

 

[JS22]

Above average fielder with top-notch range, can hit with power & drive in runs. I'm willing to accept a .240 / .260 average.

 

[BC867]

But Young is not a cleanup hitter, anymore than Montero and Drew have been.

I'd like to see a different batting order (preserving a basic righty-lefty pattern) of:

Bloomquist-3B -- our best leadoff hitter
Parra-LF -- although he delivers in the #8 spot, we need him near the top
Goldschmidt-1B -- he's shown intelligence at the plate. Give him protection
Upton-RF -- he's reached the point of MVP consideration. Bat him cleanup
Montero-C -- dependable heart of the batting order hitter
Young-CF -- take the pressure off him of trying to be the big bopper.
.................They say the ideal #6 hitter is fast, with power
Roberts-3B -- clutch hitter, good enough to make things happen no matter where
Johnson-2B -- take the top of the order pressure off him.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Above average fielder with top-notch range, can hit with power & drive in runs. I'm willing to accept a .240 / .260 average.

And this is once again, Exhibit A in the Young is the Perfect Trap Player case...

With career #'s of .241 batting average, .317 OBP and .758 OPS, along with his Top of the League strikeout and pop-up production, he is simply a black hole that has plagued this team for years now. He needs to be removed from the starting lineup. The sad part is he's signed thru 2013 and will make far more than he's worth next season and in 2013. Which means a trade will be very difficult to find. I would not at all be surprised to see him riding the pine for good after 2013, if not out of MLB altogether...

 

[82CardsGrad]

But Young is not a cleanup hitter, anymore than Montero and Drew have been.

I'd like to see a different batting order (preserving a basic righty-lefty pattern) of:

Bloomquist-3B -- our best leadoff hitter
Parra-LF -- although he delivers in the #8 spot, we need him near the top
Goldschmidt-1B -- he's shown intelligence at the plate. Give him protection
Upton-RF -- he's reached the point of MVP consideration. Bat him cleanup
Montero-C -- dependable heart of the batting order hitter
Young-CF -- take the pressure off him of trying to be the big bopper.
.................They say the ideal #6 hitter is fast, with power
Roberts-3B -- clutch hitter, good enough to make things happen no matter where
Johnson-2B -- take the top of the order pressure off him.

I can get behind that lineup... though, Upton really isn't a prototypical #4 hitter either. I think Goldy can be, but not yet...

 

[DWKB]

But Young is not a cleanup hitter, anymore than Montero and Drew have been.

I'd like to see a different batting order (preserving a basic righty-lefty pattern) of:

Bloomquist-3B -- our best leadoff hitter
Parra-LF -- although he delivers in the #8 spot, we need him near the top
Goldschmidt-1B -- he's shown intelligence at the plate. Give him protection
Upton-RF -- he's reached the point of MVP consideration. Bat him cleanup
Montero-C -- dependable heart of the batting order hitter
Young-CF -- take the pressure off him of trying to be the big bopper.
.................They say the ideal #6 hitter is fast, with power
Roberts-3B -- clutch hitter, good enough to make things happen no matter where
Johnson-2B -- take the top of the order pressure off him.

Who is "they"?

#1 High OBP first with speed and base stealing ability secondary
#2 Your best hitter period the end
#3 Your second best hitter
#4 High SLG and hiding low OBP here
#5 High SLG with higher OBP than #4, more likely to lead off innings than #4
#6-#9 Order rest by best left to worst left. Put speed at end of lineup all things being equal.

 

[BC867]

Who is "they"?

#1 High OBP first with speed and base stealing ability secondary
#2 Your best hitter period the end
#3 Your second best hitter
#4 High SLG and hiding low OBP here
#5 High SLG with higher OBP than #4, more likely to lead off innings than #4
#6-#9 Order rest by best left to worst left. Put speed at end of lineup all things being equal.

Who is "they"? You for one . . .

. . . when you said put speed at the end of the lineup. Young, Roberts and Johnson (6-8 in my proposed batting order) are all decent base stealers.

I have seen it written quite often over the years by knowledgeable sports writers that your number 6 hitter should ideally have the power to extend the middle of the batting order and the speed to begin the lower part of it. Young sure looks the part. If only he could fulfill it.

It is a lot more ambitious than hoping for "best left to worst" for the last 44% of your batting order (including the pitcher with 6-7-8).

 

[devilalum]

CY will never be a superstar but CF is definitely not at the top of the list of positions that need to be upgraded. You can't overstate the value of a good center fielder. CY makes a lot of routine catches that would be hits with anybody else on the current roster playing CF.

 

[Mulli]

CY will never be a superstar but CF is definitely not at the top of the list of positions that need to be upgraded. You can't overstate the value of a good center fielder. CY makes a lot of routine catches that would be hits with anybody else on the current roster playing CF.

Agree. CY's numbers aren't too different from Steve Finley. Not as good but close.

 

[BC867]

Agree. CY's numbers aren't too different from Steve Finley. Not as good but close.

It's interesting that you make that comparison. Great fielders in CF, who make it look easy.

And constantly looking straight up after swinging to see how high their popups went.

Young has not been one to carry a team when hot like Fins was, but just as easy an out the rest of the time.

 

[Mulli]

Chris Young's OPS is 8th amongst all CF in baseball. Not too shabby. His OBP is 11th. HRs are 5th. RBI are 7th. SB are 14th. Runs are 6th.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Chris Young's OPS is 8th amongst all CF in baseball. Not too shabby. His OBP is 11th. HRs are 5th. RBI are 7th. SB are 14th. Runs are 6th.

Huh?? The stats I see have him at:

19th in OBP.
15th in OPS.
7th in HR's.
14th in RBI.
18th in SB.

And:

23rd in batting average.
16th in Hits.
Ties for 10th in most K's.

 

[Mulli]

Huh?? The stats I see have him at:

19th in OBP.
15th in OPS.
7th in HR's.
14th in RBI.
18th in SB.

And:

23rd in batting average.
16th in Hits.
Ties for 10th in most K's.

Mulli tasking! I am thinking the batting average is not as important as the OBS and the production. Would you rather have Alex Rios for example.

 

[BC867]

Those stats are individual and point out mean (average) performances more than anything.

They do not tell how disappointing it is to see him hit harmless popups for non-productive outs when we send up our middle-of-the-batting-order.

The stats are meant to impress casual fans, rather than those of us who put our hearts into our hometown team.

 

[DWKB]

The stats are meant to impress casual fans, rather than those of us who put our hearts into our hometown team.

Do you know how demeaning this sounds to those in the industry who's professional job it is to assist teams in player evaluation?

What you're essentially saying is those who get paid real money to make baseball decisions aren't as involved or knowledgeable of the game as a wannabe manager on a message board.

 

[Black Jesus]

But Young is not a cleanup hitter, anymore than Montero and Drew have been.

I'd like to see a different batting order (preserving a basic righty-lefty pattern) of:

Bloomquist-3B -- our best leadoff hitter
Parra-LF -- although he delivers in the #8 spot, we need him near the top
Goldschmidt-1B -- he's shown intelligence at the plate. Give him protection
Upton-RF -- he's reached the point of MVP consideration. Bat him cleanup
Montero-C -- dependable heart of the batting order hitter
Young-CF -- take the pressure off him of trying to be the big bopper.
.................They say the ideal #6 hitter is fast, with power
Roberts-3B -- clutch hitter, good enough to make things happen no matter where
Johnson-2B -- take the top of the order pressure off him.

Goldie is not ready for the 3 hole.. 3 should be upton, 4 montero, 5 Goldie, 6 Roberts 7 Johnson, 8 CY.

 

[Dback Jon]

Yeah, he sucks...

 

[BC867]

CY's first homerun in 113 at-bats sure came at a good time.

Maybe this will start something good for him.

 

[Gaddabout]

Yeah, he gives us tacos

FTFY

 

[Jersey Girl]

Yeah, he sucks...

Get him off the team!!!

 

[DWKB]

CY's first homerun in 113 at-bats sure came at a good time.

Maybe this will start something good for him.

How do you not know that he's had an injured thumb since July that is obviously taking away from his power? He's been playing through serious pain because he's been asked to be an everyday player by his manager and can still play the best CF we have on this team. You know, like the opposite kind of thing a guy who doesn't care about this game or his team would do.

I would think that someone who puts their heart into their hometown team would at least be up on things like this to understand the whole picture.

 

[JS22]

How do you not know that he's had an injured thumb since July that is obviously taking away from his power? He's been playing through serious pain because he's been asked to be an everyday player by his manager and can still play the best CF we have on this team. You know, like the opposite kind of thing a guy who doesn't care about this game or his team would do.

I would think that someone who puts their heart into their hometown team would at least be up on things like this to understand the whole picture.

Some people are simply being overly critical of a team that is currently in 1st in their division. A team that many people thought would lose 90 games again.

Young is what he is. An average offensive player with some power. Excellent on the bases and a top-tier fielder in the OF. Not the strongest arm. But he gets to a lot of balls that most other CF's wouldn't get to.

 

[Mulli]

I just wonder what kind of record the Dbacks "should" have if they lived up to people's "expectations".

 

[Dback Jon]

Some people are simply being overly critical of a team that is currently in 1st in their division. A team that many people thought would lose 90 games again.

Young is what he is. An average offensive player with some power. Excellent on the bases and a top-tier fielder in the OF. Not the strongest arm. But he gets to a lot of balls that most other CF's wouldn't get to.

Exactly - he saves many, many runs