The Cardinals "created a monster"

football karma

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i tend to share Chris Sanders POV --

I think Kyler's problem is a combination of immaturity with a head coach he didn't respect.

I had two teenagers who were the "smart but mediocre grades because they didn't study" types. Then at some point things changed when they decided for themselves that to get what they wanted, they needed to study more.

Mike B can fix the HC part -- Kyler needs to decide the rest.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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You are speculating that something has changed without any evidence it has.
No. I get what DCR is saying that all of you are missing. He is NOT saying something has changed. He is saying something may have changed because it’s been some time since his quote and none of us know whether it did or not. And many here are arguing that nothing has changed but only have circumstantial evidence of that fact, no new quotes.

While I tend to believe nothing has changed, I get DCR’s point.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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i tend to share Chris Sanders POV --

I think Kyler's problem is a combination of immaturity with a head coach he didn't respect.

I had two teenagers who were the "smart but mediocre grades because they didn't study" types. Then at some point things changed when they decided for themselves that to get what they wanted, they needed to study more.

Mike B can fix the HC part -- Kyler needs to decide the rest.
This is accurate, although it was more than coach he didn’t respect. Said coach was mostly inept and not qualified nor capable of teaching anyone anything.

Kyler of course has some growing up to do. The notion though that had Kyler locks himself into a film room last two years then he’d magically become Pat Mahomes is insane. Garbage in/garbage out.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Yeah. I am confused as well with how he is saying this is speculation.
I mean as of the current date he’s not wrong. It is speculation that it’s still an issue. It’s highly likely speculation, but still technically speculation.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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True. I do remember Kliff specifically saying before the Rams playoff game last year that Kyler had worked so hard getting ready for that game if he didn't play well it wouldn't be due to lack of preparation. But that's the closest anybody came and of course that game didn't exactly go well for Kyler.
Good point Russ. It may be the only evidence that serves as a counterpoint, but it certainly is such.
 

dreamcastrocks

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No. I get what DCR is saying that all of you are missing. He is NOT saying something has changed. He is saying something may have changed because it’s been some time since his quote and none of us know whether it did or not. And many here are arguing that nothing has changed but only have circumstantial evidence of that fact, no new quotes.

While I tend to believe nothing has changed, I get DCR’s point.
Thank you. I can even admit that it may even be likely that he hasn't changed.

I just think the correlation between 'Kyler sucked this year, he must not be studying.' is a leap I'm not quite willing to go to yet. Especially since not including Kyler, (and everything that happened with him) this was the most dysfunctional year the Cardinals have ever had. With that said, I would have trusted this a lot more if the source wasn't anonymous.
 

football karma

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This is accurate, although it was more than coach he didn’t respect. Said coach was mostly inept and not qualified nor capable of teaching anyone anything.

Kyler of course has some growing up to do. The notion though that had Kyler locks himself into a film room last two years then he’d magically become Pat Mahomes is insane. Garbage in/garbage out.
Mao: given your semi-insider access to info: Is the bolded above what you think, or, what you have heard from sources? just curious
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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This is very well said.

It's not only that there is a very negative narrative around Kyler it's that there is no counter narrative. There are no players saying he studies his ass off. There's no "Kyler is the last one to leave, he stays behind throwing with Rondale to get him up to speed" type stories.

In the 4 years he's been in Arizona there is only one "Kyler in the community" moment I recall and that was last offseason after it all kicked off about his contract they did an obviously very staged event where he handed a big cheque to someone and threw a few balls to kids. And there was a little bit around the mexico game where he flew some family out. That's 2 things in 4 years.

All the other players do tonnes of community stuff. You see it all the time on Cards socials. Visiting sicks kids, doing charity drives etc. Never Kyler.

He never does voluntary media. Never shows up on the Big Red Rage (or other) like other players do.

All the stuff that would relate him to fans and make them get behind him isn't there.
Except Russ and Mao just gave us three counter examples.

There’s also the scenario where that kids jersey was stolen and kyler came through for him.

Your hate makes you blind.
 

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True. I do remember Kliff specifically saying before the Rams playoff game last year that Kyler had worked so hard getting ready for that game if he didn't play well it wouldn't be due to lack of preparation. But that's the closest anybody came and of course that game didn't exactly go well for Kyler.
I also remember Kliff saying he expected Kyler to play his best game ever vs the Rams in the playoffs. Oof.

As I've said film is just easy the answer.

FWIW, the only two times Kyler looked confused in 2021 was the Lions game and Rams playoff game. However, the other game he struggled were from not knowing how to move within the pocket under pressure.

This season he looked more confused. Part of me thinks it was him tuning out on the system and sort of doing his own thing. Hunting big plays, not trusting progressions, etc.
 

daves

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Out of curiosity how many hours of film would you guys expect Kyler to watch in a normal game week?
A while back, The Athletic had an article about a day on the love of BACKUP QB John Wofford, which I excepted here.

Looks as though he puts in about 3-4 hours a day of study and preparation (e.g. reviewing notes, making voice memos of play calls, reviewing them, and straight up independent film study) above and beyond the normal team-organized events and film sessions.

...dave
 
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football karma

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This season he looked more confused.
if you want to see how bad it was: go look up a 2020 game (meaning -- Im not cherry picking when they were 10-2 last year)

even in his not-so-good games: he looks so much more free and easy in his drops and throws
 

Brian in Mesa

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With Kyler it is often about the optics.

Who wears a shirt with this message on it to an impromptu press conference just after signing a deal for nearly a quarter of a billion dollars and what message does it send to viewers/fans?

You must be registered for see images attach
 

kerouac9

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As I've said film is just easy the answer.
FWIW, I'm using "film" and "study" as a shorthand for engagement outside of the workplace. That Palmer article is a great example of all the kinds of collaborative work that goes into building the game plan.

I don't think Kyler does (almost) any of that stuff.
 

kerouac9

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With Kyler it is often about the optics.

Who wears a shirt with this message on it to an impromptu press conference just after signing a deal for nearly a quarter of a billion dollars and what message does it send to viewers/fans?

You must be registered for see images attach
I'm pretty sure that's the press conference when the Study Clause was either uncovered or removed. It's either an epic self-own or him calling out the H8ers
 

dreamcastrocks

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With Kyler it is often about the optics.

Who wears a shirt with this message on it to an impromptu press conference just after signing a deal for nearly a quarter of a billion dollars and what message does it send to viewers/fans?

You must be registered for see images attach
Exactly. Calling him out for things that have absolutely nothing to do with his play on the field. Kyler can't win with some people for love nor money.
 

football karma

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if you want to see how bad it was: go look up a 2020 game (meaning -- Im not cherry picking when they were 10-2 last year)

even in his not-so-good games: he looks so much more free and easy in his drops and throws
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picked at kinda random. This was the OT win vs SEA in 2020 (the Simmons pick game)

again: K1 wasnt perfect -- but this was vs a team that loved 2 high safeties. K1 is calm in the pocket, lots of throws from the pocket to 2nd and 3rd reads. His arm looks way better as well
 

SoonerLou

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xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

picked at kinda random. This was the OT win vs SEA in 2020 (the Simmons pick game)

again: K1 wasnt perfect -- but this was vs a team that loved 2 high safeties. K1 is calm in the pocket, lots of throws from the pocket to 2nd and 3rd reads. His arm looks way better as well
Forgot about him having arm fatigue in camp. I really hope this season was a blip in terms of downfield accuracy. Speed and the long ball were his two biggest strengths now he's gotta get get it back.

Look at it like Russell Westbrook. If he cant finish in transition/around the rim it magnifies the rest of his flaws. He needs it.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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With Kyler it is often about the optics.

Who wears a shirt with this message on it to an impromptu press conference just after signing a deal for nearly a quarter of a billion dollars and what message does it send to viewers/fans?

You must be registered for see images attach
Yeah his self awareness is terrible.
 

oaken1

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Ok, can someone else try and explain to me what dreamcast is "actually" saying because I have no idea?
when I was a kid I knew this guy in school. If he didnt like what was being said his fall back was, " well you dont know"... when the evidence was pushed he went to, "well, you didnt see it, you aint GOD, so you dont know"

This is clearly DCR's position. He may even be that kid from way back.

I would counter with,... the internet is anonymous. One of these posters could be the Janitor at the Cards facility,..or Kylers girlfriend... you just dont know,...but we may actually be getting first hand information here.
 

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