The Cardinals "created a monster"

Chris_Sanders

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I am a big Kyler guy. I believe he is already what top 6 in franchise history for the Cards at QB. It's a low bar but it is what it is.

Still...

Either he has the worst PR ever where they can't display him doing team oriented things in a positive light

Or

It's not happening.

At this point despite my natural inclination to believe #1 I am beaten down by the evidence of #2.
 

daves

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No one is going to come out and say "My name is [Player X] and Kyler Murray doesn't do the work."

Now, what gets me is an anonymous player calling him a monster and hiding behind a reporter. If it's true and you want change, tell Kyler that he's become a monster and be the mentor he needs instead of a quote.
Isn't that pretty much exactly what Patrick Peterson did? He put his name behind the claim that Murray only cares about himself... and also brought up the study clause while talking about the expectation that Kyler has so much power from his new contract that he would make Kingsbury the scapegoat for his failings.

Sure, as Murray himself said, it would've been nice if Peterson had taken Murray aside while he was with the team, to mentor him, rather than sharing his thoughts on his podcast... But Peterson was gone from the team by the time Murray got the big contract.

And even if you don't like how Peterson aired his dirty laundry, it doesn't mean the laundry isn't dirty.

...dave
 
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daves

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For the millionth time, it can't happen. The team would take on $97.5 million in dead money.

The cap next year is $220 million, with about $198 of the $220 already accounted for!
I agree, and what you wrote here aligns with my understanding of how paid bonus money is allocated to the cap when a player is cut or traded.

What I don't understand is why OverTheCap says that if Murray is traded post June 1 of this year, the dead money cap hit for his bonus can be spread over the next 5 years at $13M per year for the next 4 and "only" $7.2M in 2027.

If this is true, a trade would still be a massive poop sandwich that's completely unrealistic until a new coach has at least a year to work with Murray. But it would, theoretically, be possible.

...dave
 
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You’re guessing. It might be true, but, again,maybe not.

Regardless, something’s not clicking on Offense. Everyone must work super hard to figure out what the problem is and fix it.

There needs to be a “willingness to do whatever it takes to win” attitude from top to bottom. Denial belongs on the back shelf with every one on the same page. The player (whether it be Kyler or some other dude) has to buy in 100%.

I get the feeling that most players, coaches & mgt are focused on protecting their own turf. Won’t work. Everyone has to zero in on what it takes to win and which players have to do what to get there.

The end.

How is it guessing?

You all do remember the Front Office put a minimum 4 hour per week study clause in his contract right?

Do you think they did that for fun? It was never there for Palmer, Kolb, Warner etc but they just thought "This totally isn't needed but lets put it in just for a laugh"?

And it was 4 hours! I mean, how little study do you have to be doing for the Org to think that the clause is necessary and that 4 hours is about as much as they can push you to do?

Then add in all the other leaks and quotes around it (as well as his play) that support that idea and explain how it's speculation.
 
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I am a big Kyler guy. I believe he is already what top 6 in franchise history for the Cards at QB. It's a low bar but it is what it is.

Still...

Either he has the worst PR ever where they can't display him doing team oriented things in a positive light

Or

It's not happening.

At this point despite my natural inclination to believe #1 I am beaten down by the evidence of #2.

This is very well said.

It's not only that there is a very negative narrative around Kyler it's that there is no counter narrative. There are no players saying he studies his ass off. There's no "Kyler is the last one to leave, he stays behind throwing with Rondale to get him up to speed" type stories.

In the 4 years he's been in Arizona there is only one "Kyler in the community" moment I recall and that was last offseason after it all kicked off about his contract they did an obviously very staged event where he handed a big cheque to someone and threw a few balls to kids. And there was a little bit around the mexico game where he flew some family out. That's 2 things in 4 years.

All the other players do tonnes of community stuff. You see it all the time on Cards socials. Visiting sicks kids, doing charity drives etc. Never Kyler.

He never does voluntary media. Never shows up on the Big Red Rage (or other) like other players do.

All the stuff that would relate him to fans and make them get behind him isn't there.
 

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Cards have to trade Kyler this offseason or lose all value for him ala Robert Griffin 3
I'm starting to think posters are being deliberately obtuse at this point in the offseason. You know by now that he's untradeable because of accelerated cap hit penalties. Why continue spewing utter nonsense?
 

cardpa

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Example of that is Geno Smith who got hurt(like Murray) and reportedly lost his job because he was such a hot head and not a hard worker. When he was on the verge of being unemployed he figured it out, changed and this year was PRAISED for his work ethic.
Problem is it took him 10 years to figure it out and now he's 32 years old.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Eh, when the guy himself says it, it's not just speculation.

In a story headlined “Inside the Mind of Kyler Murray,” the Arizona quarterback said he was blessed with the cognitive skills to see things on the field before they happen. “I'm not one of those guys that's going to sit there and kill myself watching film,” Murray told Ben Shpigel.

He's not lying - it's obvious through his lack of growth that he thinks that the process is beneath him, and he hasn't dedicated himself to film study as he should. If all the greats need to study film, why doesn't Kyler?
“Not one of those guys that’s going to sit there and kill myself” does not equal “bare minimum.” The world is not black and white. There re spectrums. I don’t think he studies enough, but hyperbole doesn’t help in these conversations.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I mean, its evident. Anyone thinking otherwise is fooling themselves.

(and no people. Gym work doesn't count. Loads of people do that for free for themselves)
This is a faulty argument. You conduct film study of kyler just to justify your arguments on a sports talk board for free, so I guess film study doesn’t count either.
 

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“Not one of those guys that’s going to sit there and kill myself” does not equal “bare minimum.” The world is not black and white. There re spectrums. I don’t think he studies enough, but hyperbole doesn’t help in these conversations.
Where in my post was anything about a bare minimum?
 

cardpa

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People develop at different rates. It's that simple.

Ok, do you believe that Kingsbury was working well with Kyler? I don't.

It's not an excuse, it's an analysis of the situation. Good, bad, or indifferent, the Cardinals are tied to Murray for at least a couple more years. Kliff wasn't working well with Kyler. The proof is on the field. The proof was how often Murray missed open receivers. Kliffs job is to teach and develop Murray, and that wasn't happening enough.

I don't think Kyler is lazy. Look at his physique! The kid does work...he's just not working at what will really make him great. It takes the right motivator to get that out of him. I know this  because of my 18 years in the United States Army. Every person is motivated differently and it will take a different person to unlock Murray.
I don't think people are referring to his physical stature when they state he's lazy. I think they are referring to his indifference to working on the mental aspects of the game as well as the technical aspects and by technical I mean learning how to go through progressions, footwork, etc. Being a gym rat is one thing, being a complete NFL QB is quite another. If you need to be constantly shoving your foot up his arse to get him to work on things that will make him better, it will be a never ending battle.

I'm not convinced Murray will ever commit to the level of preparation necessary in order to achieve the status of top 10 QB in the NFL.
 

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Out of curiosity how many hours of film would you guys expect Kyler to watch in a normal game week? Please also note that there are dozens of hours every week that he like the rest of the team has to practice, weight train, stretch, rehab, eat, sleep, etc. just to maintain minimum physical requirements to play an NFL game.

Film study is mostly handled by the coaches FWIW. Some independent study is required for greatness and Kyler should've known this going in that Kliff and co. were not going to be the best at this but film study mostly on the coaches who then relay what they believe is the proper information to the players. I would argue and Hard Knocks basically confirms it that the coaching staff we had in place were terrible communicators in that regard and one would assume minimal info really stuck.
 

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Out of curiosity how many hours of film would you guys expect Kyler to watch in a normal game week? Please also note that there are dozens of hours every week that he like the rest of the team has to practice, weight train, stretch, rehab, eat, sleep, etc. just to maintain minimum physical requirements to play an NFL game.

Film study is mostly handled by the coaches FWIW. Some independent study is required for greatness and Kyler should've known this going in that Kliff and co. were not going to be the best at this but film study mostly on the coaches who then relay what they believe is the proper information to the players. I would argue and Hard Knocks basically confirms it that the coaching staff we had in place were terrible communicators in that regard and one would assume minimal info really stuck.
Many QB's are already looking at next week's opponent and studying film on their flight home from a road game. I'm pretty sure I had heard where guys like Brady and Warner already had ideas for a gameplan by Monday. I'm guessing that's not the case with KM.
 

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Out of curiosity how many hours of film would you guys expect Kyler to watch in a normal game week? Please also note that there are dozens of hours every week that he like the rest of the team has to practice, weight train, stretch, rehab, eat, sleep, etc. just to maintain minimum physical requirements to play an NFL game.

Film study is mostly handled by the coaches FWIW. Some independent study is required for greatness and Kyler should've known this going in that Kliff and co. were not going to be the best at this but film study mostly on the coaches who then relay what they believe is the proper information to the players. I would argue and Hard Knocks basically confirms it that the coaching staff we had in place were terrible communicators in that regard and one would assume minimal info really stuck.
I would think that 10-12 hours of film study on a normal game week, outside of team meetings, is what you'd expect from an engaged player. That's 2 hours a day, even if you take a full day off.

Hard Knocks showed Colt studying in an empty hotel conference room the night before the San Francisco game. You have to decide how much work you want and need to do to maximize your ability to contribute to the team. Kyler has decided that it's the study he does with his team at the facility. I think he's in the extreme minority on that among his NFL peers.

My guess is that he feels like he's been in the extreme minority among his peers his entire life, so it shouldn't matter that he's also built different here. I also doubt that anyone has really taught Kyler how to watch and study film like a pro aside from maybe Colt. If Colt came out and said, "I go over to Kyler's twice a week and we go over last week's game and the next week's opponent," it would mean a lot.

Was it Patrick Peterson who said that he didn't really learn to study film until another veteran came in? Was it Antonio Cromartie? And then the DBs would get together to have a film party? Did I hallucinate this?
 
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Out of curiosity how many hours of film would you guys expect Kyler to watch in a normal game week? Please also note that there are dozens of hours every week that he like the rest of the team has to practice, weight train, stretch, rehab, eat, sleep, etc. just to maintain minimum physical requirements to play an NFL game.

Film study is mostly handled by the coaches FWIW. Some independent study is required for greatness and Kyler should've known this going in that Kliff and co. were not going to be the best at this but film study mostly on the coaches who then relay what they believe is the proper information to the players. I would argue and Hard Knocks basically confirms it that the coaching staff we had in place were terrible communicators in that regard and one would assume minimal info really stuck.

It's far different for a QB. An Edge rusher might only watch the tackles he's going up against and vice versa for tackles.

A QB has to watch a whole defense under all the different situations that might occur in a game and there's no way that can be done in the limited time available at practice.

The best guys are watching 20 hours of film or studying game plans per week in their own time. The minimum is 12-14. Certainly far more than the 4 hour "independent study" the Cards put in his contract. There are QB's around the league who do 4 hours a day in their own time.

Here's a week in the life of Carson Palmer. You think Kyler is doing anything close to this? And Palmer has a family. Kyler has all the time in the world.

 

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It's far different for a QB. An Edge rusher might only watch the tackles he's going up against and vice versa for tackles.

A QB has to watch a whole defense under all the different situations that might occur in a game and there's no way that can be done in the limited time available at practice.

The best guys are watching 20 hours of film or studying game plans per week in their own time. The minimum is 12-14. Certainly far more than the 4 hour "independent study" the Cards put in his contract. There are QB's around the league who do 4 hours a day in their own time.

Here's a week in the life of Carson Palmer. You think Kyler is doing anything close to this? And Palmer has a family. Kyler has all the time in the world.

Man...ain't nobody got time to watch film when you're trying to rank up on COD. Those game points don't come out of thin air!
 

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It's far different for a QB. An Edge rusher might only watch the tackles he's going up against and vice versa for tackles.

A QB has to watch a whole defense under all the different situations that might occur in a game and there's no way that can be done in the limited time available at practice.

The best guys are watching 20 hours of film or studying game plans per week in their own time. The minimum is 12-14. Certainly far more than the 4 hour "independent study" the Cards put in his contract. There are QB's around the league who do 4 hours a day in their own time.

Here's a week in the life of Carson Palmer. You think Kyler is doing anything close to this? And Palmer has a family. Kyler has all the time in the world.

To be fair, I'd be shocked if Kliff's playbook is as complicated as Bruce's was. It makes sense if the gameplans were simplified, also.

I think part of the reason that Kliff's teams collapsed year after year is that he only had 25 plays scribbled in his playbook in crayon, and pro defenses can get that figured out pretty easily.
 

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It's far different for a QB. An Edge rusher might only watch the tackles he's going up against and vice versa for tackles.

A QB has to watch a whole defense under all the different situations that might occur in a game and there's no way that can be done in the limited time available at practice.

The best guys are watching 20 hours of film or studying game plans per week in their own time. The minimum is 12-14. Certainly far more than the 4 hour "independent study" the Cards put in his contract. There are QB's around the league who do 4 hours a day in their own time.

Here's a week in the life of Carson Palmer. You think Kyler is doing anything close to this? And Palmer has a family. Kyler has all the time in the world.

This is highly inaccurate. Twenty hours a week when the average NFL play takes about 8-10 seconds?

Plus it’s garbage in/garbage out. If the right things aren’t coming across his screen it doesn’t matter how many hours Kyler watches film.

You guys have seen too many movie/ or something.
 
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This is highly inaccurate. Twenty hours a week when the average NFL play takes about 8-10 seconds?

Plus it’s garbage in/garbage out. If the right things aren’t coming across his screen it doesn’t matter how many hours Kyler watches film.

You guys have seen too many movie/ or something.

tHis Is hIgHlY iNnAcUrAte


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Whatever the number is it's categorically not enough. We will know it's enough when he understands what defenses are doing, which he doesn't.

When he does, that will be enough. Whether it's 5 hours or 20 hours.
 
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To be fair, I'd be shocked if Kliff's playbook is as complicated as Bruce's was. It makes sense if the gameplans were simplified, also.

I think part of the reason that Kliff's teams collapsed year after year is that he only had 25 plays scribbled in his playbook in crayon, and pro defenses can get that figured out pretty easily.

Fair

Which only makes the obvious lack of film study of opponents worse. As he has more time to do it.
 

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