The 2019-2020 Around the NBA thread

Discussion in 'Phoenix Suns' started by Mainstreet, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. Finito

    Finito Registered

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    Not really that’s what we are talking about. I’m not talking about green and Durant moving forward why would I do that Durant isn’t there?

    I thought this was about me and him talking about who was more important to GS’s championship run Durant or Green silly me
     
  2. Finito

    Finito Registered

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    I agree he’s up there with the best role players of all time. Right guy right place.
     
  3. Raze

    Raze Suns fan since '89

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    Interesting discussion on Green and Co. So what do you guys think was the order of importance for all 4 on last year's team? To be even more specific, what do you guys think the share percentage breakdown is?

    My order of importance goes:

    1. Kevin Durant
    2. Klay Thompson
    3. Steph Curry
    4. Draymond Green

    My share percentage breakdown for value (100 total, every player is at least a 1):

    30 Durant
    20 Klay
    19 Steph
    18 Green
    13 to essentially the rest of the team.

    This was actually tough for me to do. I'm not mega confident on it. That said, I value defense about equal to offense, which is why I value Klay and Green so much. KD is easily 50% more than the value of the others, but I took a conservative estimation.
     
  4. Phrazbit

    Phrazbit Registered

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    They were like .500 when Curry didn’t play and they won virtually all their games without Durant. There is no way Durant was more important than Curry.

    I feel like finto is only arguing about who is more talented, and obviously Durant is a better player than Green. But Green does stuff that no one else does on that team and at an elite level. They won 73 games and a title without Durant, they didn’t need him at all.

    Durant is the better player to build a team around but the Warriors were already an all time great team and if Green is removed then a lot of what makes that team great is gone.
     
  5. Raze

    Raze Suns fan since '89

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    You could easily argue that the compilation of Steph/Klay/Green>Durant. However, there's just absolutely no way that you could argue that Steph or any other of those individuals is better than Durant. Even to the GS team.

    If you separated the 4 to 4 cruddy teams like NY, PHX, Memphis, and Cleveland: which player wins the most games? Answer: Whoever gets Durant. Durant makes any team an instant contender. The other three barely move the needle. Those three are the quintessential example of "the whole is greater than the parts".

    And to be more accurate about their first title, they were gifted it with the losses of Kyrie and Love (which was proven the following year). Lebron almost single handedly beat that 2016 GS team. Like Toronto this year, they still are the champs, but the title has more asterisks than majority of the other 72 titles in NBA history. (All Title have asterisks. Some are just bigger than others).
     
  6. Hoop Head

    Hoop Head Señor Caca Cabeza Contributor

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    I'd add to this that it was when Green was suspended for game 5 in the 2016 finals is when the Cavs were able to rally and turn that series around. Most basketball analysts and fans have mentioned that if Green doesn't get suspended in that series the Warriors would have closed it out. Instead he got suspended, the Cavs won game 5, making it 2-3 at the time, and they had momentum in their favor heading back to Cleveland for game 6, where they evened things up. The Cavs then won game 7 but there probably wouldn't have been a game 7 if Green didn't get suspended.
     
  7. Phrazbit

    Phrazbit Registered

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    But that isn't the question. You're arguing about Durant being a great player and it makes him more important... meanwhile the stats don't lie. They were WAAAAY worse when Curry went out and when Durant was out they were fine. You remove Green from the equation and now they've lost their best defender, their best rebounder and arguably their best playmaker.

    Durant was more important than Klay Thompson, I'll give you that, but I think if you remove EITHER, Curry or Green from those Warriors teams and Durant is still there that they don't win squadoosh.

    Furthermore... you're underrating Curry big time, saying he would barely move the needle is nuts. He's had a better career than Durant and will likely continue to do so.

    So... again, this isn't about "who is the most talented?", this is about the Warriors and we've actually SEEN the answer. The Warriors are an all-time great team WITHOUT Durant, but when Curry or Green have been removed from the equation they have struggled mightily.
     
  8. Raze

    Raze Suns fan since '89

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    In the last three years including playoffs they are:

    6-12 without Klay (.333)
    29-24 without Steph (.547)
    24-10 without Green (.706)
    35-13 without KD (.729)

    *I unofficially tallied them, they could be off.

    They are a far worse team without Klay, which everyone in the world seems to ignore. (I'm admittedly a bigger Klay fan than most.) Plus, you could see in the Finals that Steph just couldn't do it without Klay. He got a good taste of what this upcoming year is going to be like.

    They did quite a bit better than "squadoosh" without Green ;). But, I would also submit that Green's and Durant's numbers are weak due to the fact that they can somewhat compensate for the others loss due to their similar positions (which included Iggy), while Steph and Klay don't have a star sub behind them. This, of course, makes it impossible to see how valuable they really are as individuals to the whole.

    Maybe I should clarify my point: as a threesome they are great. However if you remove one of them they are ordinary.

    And we get to test this theory out. They are going into the season with JUST Steph and Green and we'll see how good they are. As is, I don't see them making the playoffs. (If they do, I WILL be very impressed)
     
  9. 95pro

    95pro Registered

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    They could stick another 3-5 starter in there and still win without Green. On the flip side the Raptors just proved how overrated he is. Without Klay or Durant, he did not elevate his game or anyone else, he actually looked worse out there.
     
  10. Carolinacacti

    Carolinacacti Registered

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    three more years and Golden State will be saying he is an expiring contract. How old will he be and what shape will he be in?
     
  11. Phrazbit

    Phrazbit Registered

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    Huh? He posted a triple double in game 6, if Golden State had won that series (and it was a damn close series) Green probably would have been finals MVP.
     
  12. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    Some great stuff on Gregg Popovich coaching Team USA.



    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27343815/what-gregg-popovich-doing-coaching-team-usa
     
  13. GatorAZ

    GatorAZ Formerly known as GatorHater

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    Speaking of that game 7-
    Green: 32 pts / 15 rbs / 9 ast / .955 TS%
    Curry: 17 pts / 5 rbs / 2 ast / .437 TS%
    Klay: 14 pts / 2 rbs / 2 ast / .412 TS%

    Dray actually went toe to toe with LBJ that night...
     
  14. Dr. Jones

    Dr. Jones Has No Time For Love

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    Close. I was willing to go to 20 or 22.5 per year for KO. It's not the max, but does protect his interests, our long term cap and his attitude for the long haul. You pay the 4th best guy on a title team about that much IMO. 2 or 3 at the max, the third maybe a bit under max, and the 4th...... roughly 20mil. That's where the NBA is right now IMO. I see Booker & Ayton as our max guys, we just have to hope they grow. One more Max FA, and then Oubre and a bunch of solid role guys.

    Draymond is a former defensive player of the year. One of the chief architects of their attitude and swag. And one of the scrappiest 4 (or 5) position defenders of the past decade. Plus, he is an above average passer and ball handler at his position as well.

    I do think they are getting a home-team discount on this deal though. Even though the last two years look rough IMO, Draymond could have probably gotten a bit more on the opening market.
     
  15. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    I guess former Sun Sebastian Telfair picked the wrong jurisdiction to carry a loaded handgun in his vehicle.


    https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...more-than-3-years-prison-gun-case/1996430001/
     

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