Suns updates and discussion for the 2019-20 season

[BC867]

right? Feels like the overwhelming majority of us were all aboard the Booker train, just marveling at how EASY he was making domination look.

I can never remember Book just being able to get his shot anywhere he wanted, any time he wanted, getting to the hole and even dunking more than he ever has.

dude was straight FIRE for eight games.

It was Devin's first real opportunity to shine on the big stage. And, boy, did he.

I don't consider his being named an All Star injury replacement to be the same.

Book has the intangibles to be a super star. The Suns owe it to him to add on
role players, rise in the standings over a full season and be recognized for it.

 

[Chaplin]

Appears to have started here, https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/posts/4256535/
with WhyAlwaysMe, GatorAZ, and BC all chiming in there. I knew that would be easy to find since I remember replying to the stats that were posted. That's not the only spot I saw it but at least gives you a place to start looking. I'm not going to dig for more right now because there's been a ton of activity in the last few days.

Except nobody on that thread was calling for those guys to be voted MVP over Booker.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Except nobody on that thread was calling for those guys to be voted MVP over Booker.

I'm not going to put any effort into finding it but I recall someone disagreeing with the idea Booker should win MVP and insisting that Lillard was a lock for it. I suspect it was in a game thread.

 

[Ronin]

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[Chaplin]

I'm not going to put any effort into finding it but I recall someone disagreeing with the idea Booker should win MVP and insisting that Lillard was a lock for it. I suspect it was in a game thread.

And AGAIN, Booker vs Lillard wasn’t what was being discussed. It was Booker vs anyone else other than Lillard.

 

[AzStevenCal]

And AGAIN, Booker vs Lillard wasn’t what was being discussed. It was Booker vs anyone else other than Lillard.

Sorry, I wasn't paying close enough attention apparently.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It was Devin's first real opportunity to shine on the big stage. And, boy, did he.

I don't consider his being named an All Star injury replacement to be the same.

Book has the intangibles to be a super star. The Suns owe it to him to add on
role players, rise in the standings over a full season and be recognized for it.

I’ve hoped for book to be a star, but I have to admit I was in the “have to see it consistently when it matters” line of thinking. The bubble performance dispels all lingering doubt I may have had. Due to not having next level athleticism he’ll likely never be the highest of the high tiers, but that’s okay. He’s definitely a legit star. Should be a perennial all star from here on out imo.

 

[cwamjn]

I’ve hoped for book to be a star, but I have to admit I was in the “have to see it consistently when it matters” line of thinking. The bubble performance dispels all lingering doubt I may have had. Due to not having next level athleticism he’ll likely never be the highest of the high tiers, but that’s okay. He’s definitely a legit star. Should be a perennial all star from here on out imo.

I'm probably drinking too much kool aid, but he could be an mvp dark horse candidate. If Suns grab a top 4 rise in the west I could make the case.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm probably drinking too much kool aid, but he could be an mvp dark horse candidate. If Suns grab a top 4 rise in the west I could make the case.

I could see him being a candidate but likely never winning it.

 

[Chaplin]

I could see him being a candidate but likely never winning it.

That's really easy to say, but you don't know what the circumstances would be if we did somehow become top 4.

I just don't understand where "likely never winning it" comes from. Especially since this is all speculation at best.

 

[GatorAZ]

That's really easy to say, but you don't know what the circumstances would be if we did somehow become top 4.

I just don't understand where "likely never winning it" comes from. Especially since this is all speculation at best.

Giannis and Jokic are entering their prime, Luka is 21, Harden and Lilliard aren’t going anywhere... Why is it hard not thinking he’ll win one?

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm probably drinking too much kool aid, but he could be an mvp dark horse candidate. If Suns grab a top 4 rise in the west I could make the case.

I think he could win it but he would need to take his scoring to the next level, into that Harden 35+ ppg level, to be considered and the Suns will need to finish at the top of the conference. Since 1980 there has only been 1 player to win MVP whose team didn't finish with a top 3 record in their conference. That was Westbrook in 2016-17. Only MJ in 86-87 won it while the Bulls finished 3rd in the East. Every other winner's team finished top 2. That was Westbrook in 2016-17. Here's a link to more info on that, I think it's quite interesting. They actually predicted Westbrook wouldn't win it that season but we know how that turned out.

I can see Booker becoming a top 5 candidate without much change other than the Suns record but the MVP race is almost always between 2 or 3 guys so finishing 5th is nice but doesn't mean a whole lot. However that might also help him make 1st or 2nd team All-NBA.

He might get there if he could score 30+ while joining the 50/40/90 club, which he was part of for the first 25 games of the season but he was only scoring 24.8 at that time. Link to view all of his stats at that point on BB-Ref but I've also posted some below.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Chaplin]

Giannis and Jokic are entering their prime, Luka is 21, Harden and Lilliard aren’t going anywhere... Why is it hard not thinking he’ll win one?

If in some fantasy world the suns finish above all of them are you telling me there is no way in that scenario that Booker won’t win it? Luka is good but the mavs are far from a contender. You can say that about Harden and Lillard as well. Booker is very close to being as good as any of those guys.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's really easy to say, but you don't know what the circumstances would be if we did somehow become top 4.

I just don't understand where "likely never winning it" comes from. Especially since this is all speculation at best.

Well, that’s my opinion. I think you need to be close to otherworldly in some manner to win it and I don’t think book can get there. I don’t see him joining this group:

• LeBron James (2012-13)

• Stephen Curry (2015-16)

• Kevin Durant (2013-14)

• LeBron James (2009-10)

• Russell Westbrook (2016-17)

• Stephen Curry (2014-15)

• LeBron James (2011-12)

• Giannis Antetokounmpo (2018-19)

• James Harden (2017-18)

• Derrick Rose (2010-11

 

[Chaplin]

Well, that’s my opinion. I think you need to be close to otherworldly in some manner to win it and I don’t think book can get there. I don’t see him joining this group:

• LeBron James (2012-13)

• Stephen Curry (2015-16)

• Kevin Durant (2013-14)

• LeBron James (2009-10)

• Russell Westbrook (2016-17)

• Stephen Curry (2014-15)

• LeBron James (2011-12)

• Giannis Antetokounmpo (2018-19)

• James Harden (2017-18)

• Derrick Rose (2010-11

Steve Nash did it twice in a row. I'm not saying Devin Booker is Steve Nash, but he can easily be close, especially if his team is in a good position. It's about Most VALUABLE Player, not BEST player, although the meaning of that award gets muddy.

I bet many people said the exact same thing you are saying about Booker before Curry and Harden won it.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well, that’s my opinion. I think you need to be close to otherworldly in some manner to win it and I don’t think book can get there. I don’t see him joining this group:

• LeBron James (2012-13)

• Stephen Curry (2015-16)

• Kevin Durant (2013-14)

• LeBron James (2009-10)

• Russell Westbrook (2016-17)

• Stephen Curry (2014-15)

• LeBron James (2011-12)

• Giannis Antetokounmpo (2018-19)

• James Harden (2017-18)

• Derrick Rose (2010-11

For what it is worth, of the above mentioned players, only Lebron and Kevin Durant scored more points per game at age 23.


http://bkref.com/tiny/ehBhG

http://bkref.com/tiny/db3z7

I do think Devin Booker is capable of winning the MVP if the Suns surround him with the right players.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Steve Nash did it twice in a row. I'm not saying Devin Booker is Steve Nash, but he can easily be close, especially if his team is in a good position. It's about Most VALUABLE Player, not BEST player, although the meaning of that award gets muddy.

I bet many people said the exact same thing you are saying about Booker before Curry and Harden won it.

Steve Nash was a transcendent player (not athlete, but player). His passing was insane. I don’t think book is that. He doesn’t have “insane” in his quiver. And curry was insane three point shooter. Again I don’t think book has “insane” in him. That’s not a knock on book. I think he’s going to have multiple all-nba honors when all is said and done. Just not an MVP. Would love to be proven wrong.

 

[BC867]

Steve Nash was a transcendent player (not athlete, but player). His passing was insane. I don’t think book is that. He doesn’t have “insane” in his quiver. And curry was insane three point shooter. Again I don’t think book has “insane” in him. That’s not a knock on book. I think he’s going to have multiple all-nba honors when all is said and done. Just not an MVP. Would love to be proven wrong.

For Book to be an MVP, he would have to be surrounded
by a balanced, functional team.

The leader of the most valuable team in the league.

When is the last time the Suns have had a balanced
team, challenging to win it all?

It is the age-old story about what constitutes an MVP.

The best player? No, the one who leads his team to
post-seasons. And that is more in the hands of the
General Manager and Head Coach.

 

[Mainstreet]

Steve Nash was a transcendent player (not athlete, but player). His passing was insane. I don’t think book is that. He doesn’t have “insane” in his quiver. And curry was insane three point shooter. Again I don’t think book has “insane” in him. That’s not a knock on book. I think he’s going to have multiple all-nba honors when all is said and done. Just not an MVP. Would love to be proven wrong.

Nash was an excellent player in Dallas but his career didn't take the next step until he returned to Phoenix at age 30.

Booker may never be an MVP but it's not hard to see putting up better stats by that age.

 

[Chaplin]

Steve Nash was a transcendent player (not athlete, but player). His passing was insane. I don’t think book is that. He doesn’t have “insane” in his quiver. And curry was insane three point shooter. Again I don’t think book has “insane” in him. That’s not a knock on book. I think he’s going to have multiple all-nba honors when all is said and done. Just not an MVP. Would love to be proven wrong.

There have been plenty of “insane” whatever that didn’t win the award. I like Derrick Rose but what was he so much better than Devin Booker at? James Harden is a scoring machine, but I’d choose Booker over him every time based on stuff other than scoring.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Booker just needs to lead the Suns to 60 wins and he will win MVP.

the Derrick Rose special.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There have been plenty of “insane” whatever that didn’t win the award. I like Derrick Rose but what was he so much better than Devin Booker at? James Harden is a scoring machine, but I’d choose Booker over him every time based on stuff other than scoring.

the year Rose won the MVP, he was at the same age Booker is now, a good defender, ran an entire offense himself, scoring 25 pig and dishing 8 dimes, while leading a pretty pedestrian team to 61 wins and getting them to the ECF. Book’s not the defender or distributor, hasn’t shown the ability to run a good offense on his own or make the playoffs yet.

and I think you’d be in a huge minority of people taking Devon over Harden. Again, Harden doesn’t just score at will and at a historic rate, he runs the entire offense and has been doingso from the moment he got on the Rockets, having taken the team to the playoffs by the same age that Book is now and almost singlehandedly took a weak Rockets team to the WCF when his second best player was Dwight Howard’s soon to be rotting corpse.

Book has to at least be such a dominant offensive force in every way that drives his team to the playoffs before he can be mentioned in the same breath as Rose and Harden were and are in their primes. This year was a good step but I think it will be tough to match those guys’ playmaking ability for others and that is what elevates them over him in the long run... for me anyway.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Booker just needs to lead the Suns to 60 wins and he will win MVP.

the Derrick Rose special.

he’s got to at least lead them to the playoffs once... or even .500... before I would start talking about this.

 

[Chaplin]

the year Rose won the MVP, he was at the same age Booker is now, a good defender, ran an entire offense himself, scoring 25 pig and dishing 8 dimes, while leading a pretty pedestrian team to 61 wins and getting them to the ECF. Book’s not the defender or distributor, hasn’t shown the ability to run a good offense on his own or make the playoffs yet.

and I think you’d be in a huge minority of people taking Devon over Harden. Again, Harden doesn’t just score at will and at a historic rate, he runs the entire offense and has been doingso from the moment he got on the Rockets, having taken the team to the playoffs by the same age that Book is now and almost singlehandedly took a weak Rockets team to the WCF when his second best player was Dwight Howard’s soon to be rotting corpse.

Book has to at least be such a dominant offensive force in every way that drives his team to the playoffs before he can be mentioned in the same breath as Rose and Harden were and are in their primes. This year was a good step but I think it will be tough to match those guys’ playmaking ability for others and that is what elevates them over him in the long run... for me anyway.

Ok I’m not 100% convinced but you make good points.

I just think so early in his career it is short sighted to automatically assume Booker won’t ever win an MVP. It’s safe to say Ricky Rubio will never win MVP, but there is no definitive reason in my eyes to say that Devin will never do it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ok I’m not 100% convinced but you make good points.

I just think so early in his career it is short sighted to automatically assume Booker won’t ever win an MVP. It’s safe to say Ricky Rubio will never win MVP, but there is no definitive reason in my eyes to say that Devin will never do it.

we saw three SUPERSTAR streaks from Book this year. The opening of the season without DeAndre, another ridiculous scoring run around I think around January and then doing EVERYTHING at peak level during the bubble. If he somehow puts up and entire season combining levels of those three runs, not only will the team win more games than they lose, that kind of season would be not just superstar but MVP worthy. I still have my doubts, but I had doubts Book could get to superstar status and I think he made a really solid case for that in the future this year.

I’d love to see handles get better which would make him more dangerous run in a team and that IS possible. I think about Kawhi his first three years and now and that guy’s handles have become totally sick and allows him to dominate in every way on offense. If Devon does that, makes him unstoppable at getting to the hole, that would push him closer toward MVP like play.