Stoudemire: 'I want to be that guy'

[nowagimp]

However, I can see changes coming before the February trading deadline if the ship is not righted.

A scary proposition with Kerr/Sarver doing the dealing and getting raked over the coals by more experienced NBA managers. the suns could be doomed to the lottery for a decade and perhaps without lottery picks.

 

[Mainstreet]

A scary proposition with Kerr/Sarver doing the dealing and getting raked over the coals by more experienced NBA managers. the suns could be doomed to the lottery for a decade and perhaps without lottery picks.

Yep. Sarver needs to sell the team or hire a new GM. I don't know where Porter should be coaching but definitely not in Phoenix. I'm actually feeling sorry for Porter. IMO, he is in way over his head. I do fear there may be some major changes before the February deadline with Kerr making them. Very scary indeed.

I do not see Sarver or Kerr admitting they are wrong about anything. I do not remember ever feeling this desperate about the Suns except before JC bought the team. I thought they might be on there way out of the valley back then.

 

[SirStefan32]

At the end of the season, if this team is no better off......Amare will have nobody to blame but himself.

I am sure he will find a way to blame somebody else.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Amare is a great talent. IMO the guy has improved ever year. Having said that...Amare can't put is name up there with those other guys regardless of "how hard he works" unless it shows on the floor.

He needs to be more consistant rebounding. He needs to continue to improve on defense. The problem I see with Amare right now is that he wants the NAME TAG that says "go to guy" regardless if he is actually consistant enough to be that guy yet.

I'm not seeing improvement much improvement at all in Amare this year, and I'm really not seeing it at the defensive end and in rebounding. His rebounding numbers are actually DOWN with more minutes. even in games wthout Shaq playing he's not getting double digit rebounds. that's pathetic. and it's not like we're outrebounding our opponents so we couldn't use more help on the boards.

his passing has gotten a little better, but I haven't seen much of anything else from him improvement wise.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm not seeing improvement much improvement at all in Amare this year, and I'm really not seeing it at the defensive end and in rebounding. His rebounding numbers are actually DOWN with more minutes. even in games wthout Shaq playing he's not getting double digit rebounds. that's pathetic. and it's not like we're outrebounding our opponents so we couldn't use more help on the boards.

his passing has gotten a little better, but I haven't seen much of anything else from him improvement wise.

True but he is 25th in the rebounding in the NBA. 18th Amungst all forwards. 13th in the NBA amungst players playing both PF/Center. #3 in the NBA amungst player just at the PF position.

Hardly horrible. Amare's problem is that he gets games in which he will grab 18 then 5 the next.

Our Opposing Per at the PF position last season was 23.2 at the PF position and 21.3 at the Center position. This year at the PF it's 11.9 per with Amare logging most minutes at PF and 12.3 at Center. A big factor is Shaq but Amare plays a bunch of minutes with Shaq off the floor. Some of that has to be better production from Amare on the defensive end which says improvement to me so I have to give him some credit there.

I don't think Amare's problem is ability...it's consistency.

 

[cly2tw]

True but he is 25th in the rebounding in the NBA. 18th Amungst all forwards. 13th in the NBA amungst players playing both PF/Center. #3 in the NBA amungst player just at the PF position.

Hardly horrible. Amare's problem is that he gets games in which he will grab 18 then 5 the next.

Our Opposing Per at the PF position last season was 23.2 at the PF position and 21.3 at the Center position. This year at the PF it's 11.9 per with Amare logging most minutes at PF and 12.3 at Center. A big factor is Shaq but Amare plays a bunch of minutes with Shaq off the floor. Some of that has to be better production from Amare on the defensive end which says improvement to me so I have to give him some credit there.

I don't think Amare's problem is ability...it's consistency.

Thanks for the PER numbers. That's what I see in the games. Our main problem comes from opponents perimeter players having a lot of space to do their damages. And we aren't good at help D and Amare loses rebounding position too easily after rotating to help.

 

[devilalum]

If Amare doesn't "get it" pretty soon he may become the next Derrick Coleman.

He was a great scorer when he had Nash setting him up on the pick and roll but he can't score with his back to the basket, he's an average rebounder and he can't play defense.

Why again should he even be mentioned with great players like Duncan? Why is it something with this guy every year? If you want to be the franchise player act like it.


Take it.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

True but he is 25th in the rebounding in the NBA. 18th Amungst all forwards. 13th in the NBA amungst players playing both PF/Center. #3 in the NBA amungst player just at the PF position.

Hardly horrible. Amare's problem is that he gets games in which he will grab 18 then 5 the next.

Our Opposing Per at the PF position last season was 23.2 at the PF position and 21.3 at the Center position. This year at the PF it's 11.9 per with Amare logging most minutes at PF and 12.3 at Center. A big factor is Shaq but Amare plays a bunch of minutes with Shaq off the floor. Some of that has to be better production from Amare on the defensive end which says improvement to me so I have to give him some credit there.

I don't think Amare's problem is ability...it's consistency.

he is not number 3 in the nba at the power forward position. recheck ur stats

 

[Cheesebeef]

True but he is 25th in the rebounding in the NBA.

the guy's got too much physical ability to be ranked anywhere near 25th in rebounding. His rebounding numbers are average at best and have declined from last year with more minutes.

18th Amungst all forwards. 13th in the NBA amungst players playing both PF/Center. #3 in the NBA amungst player just at the PF position.

Hardly horrible. Amare's problem is that he gets games in which he will grab 18 then 5 the next.

who said anything about horrible? I just said I didn't see improvement. As to the "problem of getting 18 one night and 5 the next, actually, he's more than likely to get you 18 one night and then 5 the next... FIVE GAMES. Double digit rebounds in only 6 of 17 games. That's pathetic.

Our Opposing Per at the PF position last season was 23.2 at the PF position and 21.3 at the Center position. This year at the PF it's 11.9 per with Amare logging most minutes at PF and 12.3 at Center. A big factor is Shaq but Amare plays a bunch of minutes with Shaq off the floor. Some of that has to be better production from Amare on the defensive end which says improvement to me so I have to give him some credit there.

but you also have to take into consideration that at a slower pace, ALL of our defensive numbers are going to be better. Also, I wonder what the difference is as far as guard play since that seems to be the area that every team decides to kill us this year.

I don't think Amare's problem is ability...it's consistency.

and therein lies the reason I don't see improvement. He's always had the ability but NEVER the consistency. I could go back a year from now and pull up a post of yours that probably says the same thing about Amare, except he'd actually be higher up in the numbers you posted above re: rebounding.

 

[Andrew]

Amare pretty much is that guy, they go to Shaq early and often so he can develop as soon as possible...

 

[nowagimp]

but you also have to take into consideration that at a slower pace, ALL of our defensive numbers are going to be better. Also, I wonder what the difference is as far as guard play since that seems to be the area that every team decides to kill us this year.

Yep the porter defense packs the lane forces to the baselines, but doesnt defend the 3 pt shot well, too busy trying to prevent fouls on the bigs. THe incredible thing is how penetrating guards get inside to finish anyway with all those big bodies on defense. I swear, KG>shaq plus amare plus diaw at defending the paint. Everyone knows that house and Ray allen dont defend well, and yet KG controlls the paint even when their man gets in the lane area.

 

[Covert Rain]

he is not number 3 in the nba at the power forward position. recheck ur stats

Just did. Actually it depends on where you look it up and what they have Amare listed as. Some have him as PF others PF/Center. He is actually listed as high as #3 and as low as #11 (using pure PF). Point still sticks. #11 would still make him the top 3rd in the NBA in rebounding at the PF spot.

the guy's got too much physical ability to be ranked anywhere near 25th in rebounding. His rebounding numbers are average at best and have declined from last year with more minutes.

Hes is down 1 rebound per game. I think that is not surprising considering Shaq and not unexpected. You want to say he should average more per game.....great. If I use Pure PF stats from ESPN there are only 10 other PF in the league that rebound better then Amare. 3 more rebounds per game seperate him from the best in the league right now (T. Murphy 10.9).

who said anything about horrible? I just said I didn't see improvement. As to the "problem of getting 18 one night and 5 the next, actually, he's more than likely to get you 18 one night and then 5 the next... FIVE GAMES. Double digit rebounds in only 6 of 17 games. That's pathetic.

And I didn't disagree with you but averaging only 3 less then the league leader at PF doesn't exactly say pathetic either.

but you also have to take into consideration that at a slower pace, ALL of our defensive numbers are going to be better. Also, I wonder what the difference is as far as guard play since that seems to be the area that every team decides to kill us this year.

2007-2008 (Opponents Per)
PG - 17.6 points per game
SG - 14.2 points per game
SF - 17.3 points per game
PF - 16.4 points per game
C - 19.7 points per game

2008-2009 (Opponents Per)
PG - 18.7 points per game (+1.1)
SG - 19.7 points per game (+5.5)
SF - 16.3 points per game (-1.0)
PF - 15.1 points per game (-1.3)
C - 15.9 pont per game (-3.8)

So, it appears we have improved defensively at every position but PG and SG (with SG being the biggest drop off from last year).

and therein lies the reason I don't see improvement. He's always had the ability but NEVER the consistency. I could go back a year from now and pull up a post of yours that probably says the same thing about Amare, except he'd actually be higher up in the numbers you posted above re: rebounding.

I have never called Amare consistant and would challenge you to find a post that says that. Again, his rebounding has not fallen off the face of the earth and is an acceptable drop considering Shaq's #'s. He is not a great rebounder but he is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be unless you consider 3 off the top spot bad and one off his pace from last year bad. I have always felt Amare has underachieved (and been inconsistent) in rebounding but have never felt he was pathetic.

It appears he is making marginal strides on his defense. So, if he can get his rebounding numbers up or at least up to where they were last year...it would be an improvement.

 

[cobbler]

Just did. Actually it depends on where you look it up and what they have Amare listed as. Some have him as PF others PF/Center. He is actually listed as high as #3 and as low as #11 (using pure PF). Point still sticks. #11 would still make him the top 3rd in the NBA in rebounding at the PF spot.

I think you are a bit off on this one..

NBA.com has him at #25 overall (all positions included) and #13 for SF/PF (carmelo and gerald wallace both outrebound him from the SF position)

ESPN.com has him listed at #25 overall and #11 for PF.
I coundn't find anywhere where he is listed at #3. (unless maybe there is a site that has a players with microfracture surgery catagory)

True but he is 25th in the rebounding in the NBA. 18th Amungst all forwards. 13th in the NBA amungst players playing both PF/Center. #3 in the NBA amungst player just at the PF position.

Point does NOT stick... You implied he was #3 at the PF position which is not the same as saying he's in the top 3rd. And for someone complaining he should be the go to guy, I'm thinking top 3rd in any catagory just doesn't make the grade.

 

[DeAnna]

Paul Coro was on the radio this morning talking about this. I thought it was odd that Amare mentioned Dwight Howard in that group with LeBron, etc. In years past, DH always wanted to be like Amare; now the tables have turned ... wow. DH is obviously the better defender/rebounder but Amare has a better offensive game. So (they said) it's pretty much up to him to be all that he can be.

They pretty much agreed that Amare is becoming very high maintenance and always complaining; they wouldn't be surprised if there are trade rumors in the off season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Just did. Actually it depends on where you look it up and what they have Amare listed as. Some have him as PF others PF/Center. He is actually listed as high as #3 and as low as #11 (using pure PF). Point still sticks. #11 would still make him the top 3rd in the NBA in rebounding at the PF spot.

Hes is down 1 rebound per game. I think that is not surprising considering Shaq and not unexpected.

i'm sorry, but Shaq being there should only free him up to be a better rebounder and make us a better rebounding club than we were last year with Shaq. Fact is, we're a worse rebounding club than we were last year with Shaq as we had a +4 margin after the trade and now we're at dead even. There's boards to be gotten and Amare's not getting them.

You want to say he should average more per game.....great. If I use Pure PF stats from ESPN there are only 10 other PF in the league that rebound better then Amare.

you say there's only 10 other PF in the game... as if that shows Amare's pretty good. That says to me he's pfretty average considering how mediocre everyone behind him is, not to mention less athletically gifted.

3 more rebounds per game seperate him from the best in the league right now (T. Murphy 10.9).

And I didn't disagree with you but averaging only 3 less then the league leader at PF doesn't exactly say pathetic either.

3 rebounds is wide chasm when looking at stats in the NBA, especially considering Amare's gifts athletically compared to a guy like Troy Murphy. And 3 is a pretty wide gap in the NBA as far as stats go. It's like saying a PG who dishes 8 dimes a game isn't that far off from Nash who averaged 11.5 back in the day. Or a player who averages 5 turnovers a game isn't that far off from the guy who averages only 2.

2007-2008 (Opponents Per)
PG - 17.6 points per game
SG - 14.2 points per game
SF - 17.3 points per game
PF - 16.4 points per game
C - 19.7 points per game

2008-2009 (Opponents Per)
PG - 18.7 points per game (+1.1)
SG - 19.7 points per game (+5.5)
SF - 16.3 points per game (-1.0)
PF - 15.1 points per game (-1.3)
C - 15.9 pont per game (-3.8)

So, it appears we have improved defensively at every position but PG and SG (with SG being the biggest drop off from last year).




I have never called Amare consistant and would challenge you to find a post that says that.

uh, where did I say you did?

Again, his rebounding has not fallen off the face of the earth

uh, where did anyone say it did? I've just said it's fallen back.

and is an acceptable drop considering Shaq's #'s.

here's the problem with this "acceptable drop" - his numbers have been down from when he was even playing with Shaq last year... even though he's getting more minutes both on the floor with Shaq and without him. Shaq's numbers/minutes have only gone down, while Amare's minutes have gone up and his rebounding numbers have gone down. How there can be an acceptable drop in that scenario doesn't make any sense to me.

He is not a great rebounder but he is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be unless you consider 3 off the top spot bad and one off his pace from last year bad.

being a run of the mill rebounding PF when you have as much talent as Amare has is what makes him a bad rebounder. It's not just the numbers, it's the fact that because of his natural abilities, he should be doing MORE and he isn't. There's no way he should be an average rebounder.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Paul Coro was on the radio this morning talking about this. I thought it was odd that Amare mentioned Dwight Howard in that group with LeBron, etc. In years past, DH always wanted to be like Amare; now the tables have turned ... wow. DH is obviously the better defender/rebounder but Amare has a better offensive game. So (they said) it's pretty much up to him to be all that he can be.

They pretty much agreed that Amare is becoming very high maintenance and always complaining; they wouldn't be surprised if there are trade rumors in the off season.

I also think Amare's wagging his tongue about "I don't care where I play" yada, yada because he wants to be in the conversation with Wade, Bosh and Bron. He's an attention ***** and wasn't getting any so he made loud and clear (multiple times) that he was a FA as well to get that attention.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think you are a bit off on this one..

NBA.com has him at #25 overall (all positions included) and #13 for SF/PF (carmelo and gerald wallace both outrebound him from the SF position)

ESPN.com has him listed at #25 overall and #11 for PF.
I coundn't find anywhere where he is listed at #3. (unless maybe there is a site that has a players with microfracture surgery catagory)



Point does NOT stick... You implied he was #3 at the PF position which is not the same as saying he's in the top 3rd. And for someone complaining he should be the go to guy, I'm thinking top 3rd in any catagory just doesn't make the grade.

I see what I did on that one. Yahoo had him listed as PF/C and then I had looked up just PF and only had seen 2 others with a higher rebound per game total. Amare was not listed as PF on that site. In fact, how they grouped them together was kind of strange. My bad.

Points still sticks. Top 3rd of the NBA is not crappy was my point. Any time you can say your in the top 3rd of anything is not ordinary IMO. I get that people think he has underachieved and should be top 10. I don't disagree. But he is #11 and not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. I have a bigger problem as stated before with his consistency. I would rather have Amare get 8 or 9 per night then get 18 rebounds one night then 5 for the next 2. That to me is the problem.

 

[cly2tw]

Paul Coro was on the radio this morning talking about this. I thought it was odd that Amare mentioned Dwight Howard in that group with LeBron, etc. In years past, DH always wanted to be like Amare; now the tables have turned ... wow. DH is obviously the better defender/rebounder but Amare has a better offensive game. So (they said) it's pretty much up to him to be all that he can be.

They pretty much agreed that Amare is becoming very high maintenance and always complaining; they wouldn't be surprised if there are trade rumors in the off season.

DHoward has been FEATURED on his team for the past 5 years, during which the team allowed him to do all kind of mistakes and tried to develop him into a complete and dominant player at C. They got rewarded.

In contrast, Suns team featured Nash and allowed Amare only play the role that fit his natural talents. The team gained great regular season success and we have a dispointed supposed franchise player at hand after that.

Joe Johnson, DirkN developed into much better, in fact dominant, players after separation with Nash. I don't believe they'd have done that with Nash making everything so easy for them. That's a fact.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I really need to talk to Amare about being his new Publicist so I can work on his image without him looking like a child.

You cant get two techs in a game then continue to whine about not being the man. Its counter productive.

 

[Covert Rain]

The interesting thing about this entire topic??? I just noticed this.....Amare leads the team in shot attempts.

Attempts
Amare - 237
Nash - 166
Shaq - 157
Raja - 154
Barnes - 120

I think Amare is already the go to man on this team. It's not even close. Amare wants to be the first choice evidently and wants to be #1 in the pecking order.

 

[Black Jesus]

The interesting thing about this entire topic??? I just noticed this.....Amare leads the team in shot attempts.

Attempts
Amare - 237
Nash - 166
Shaq - 157
Raja - 154
Barnes - 120

I think Amare is already the go to man on this team. It's not even close. Amare wants to be the first choice evidently and wants to be #1 in the pecking order.

Those numbers are decieving. Nash has missed two games, Shaq has missed 2 games, Barnes has missed 5 games, Barbosa has attemtped 122 and has missed 5 games.

Attempts per game look like this...
Suns
Amare- 13.2
Nash-10.4
Shaq- 9.8 (Was ejected early one game too, sat in foul trouble another)
Barbosa- 9.4
Barnes- 9.2
Bell- 8.6
Hill- 7
Diaw- 6.4

Let Look at some other teams and players...
Celtics
Garnett- 14.2
Pierce- 13
Allen- 12.8
Rondo- 7.5 No other player above 7, big three gettng their looks

Random Players
Joe Johnson- 18.2
LeBron James- 20
Chris Bosh- 17.6
Carmelo- 16.4
Kobe- 19.5
OJ Mayo adn Gay- 17.8
Al Jefferson- 18
Wade- 20.7
David West- 16.1
Boozer- 15
Durant- 18
Roy- 16
Adrigdge- 15


I think for our team to be successful, Barnes needs to lose some looks, Hill needs to lose some looks, Barbosa and Bell need to lose some looks... Keeping around 75 shot attempts for those guys...

Amare- 16
Shaq- 13
Nash-12
Barbosa- 7.5
Barnes- 7.5
Diaw-7
Hill- 6
Bell-6

Shaq Amare and Nash Need more looks for this team to be successful. No more Barbosa chuckups, Barnes stupid shots, Bell midrange, or Hill 3pt shots.

Those wasted shots should be turned into Nash-Amare pick and roll and Shaq post ups. That is what our team is best at. Bell should be a kickout option exclusively, Barnes should be our scrappy player, and Diaw should continue what he is doing. Hill should come in and slash for a few minutes at a time.

Most importantly I think this team doesn't have the right personal. Get rid of Barbosa and Bell and get a SG that fits the system better.

 

[cly2tw]

The interesting thing about this entire topic??? I just noticed this.....Amare leads the team in shot attempts.

Attempts
Amare - 237
Nash - 166
Shaq - 157
Raja - 154
Barnes - 120

I think Amare is already the go to man on this team. It's not even close. Amare wants to be the first choice evidently and wants to be #1 in the pecking order.

Per min? I believe Shaq leads the per min. shot attempts stats and Barnes might have about the same with Amare too.

 

[nowagimp]

The interesting thing about this entire topic??? I just noticed this.....Amare leads the team in shot attempts.

Attempts
Amare - 237
Nash - 166
Shaq - 157
Raja - 154
Barnes - 120

I think Amare is already the go to man on this team. It's not even close. Amare wants to be the first choice evidently and wants to be #1 in the pecking order.

But if amare is NOt the FEATURED player in the suns offense, how can he lead the suns in shot attempts?

 

[cly2tw]

Those numbers are decieving. Nash has missed two games, Shaq has missed 2 games, Barnes has missed 5 games, Barbosa has attemtped 122 and has missed 5 games.

...

I think for our team to be successful, Barnes needs to lose some looks, Hill needs to lose some looks, Barbosa and Bell need to lose some looks... Keeping around 75 shot attempts for those guys...

Amare- 16
Shaq- 13
Nash-12
Barbosa- 7.5
Barnes- 7.5
Diaw-7
Hill- 6
Bell-6

Shaq Amare and Nash Need more looks for this team to be successful. No more Barbosa chuckups, Barnes stupid shots, Bell midrange, or Hill 3pt shots.

Those wasted shots should be turned into Nash-Amare pick and roll and Shaq post ups. That is what our team is best at. Bell should be a kickout option exclusively, Barnes should be our scrappy player, and Diaw should continue what he is doing. Hill should come in and slash for a few minutes at a time.

Most importantly I think this team doesn't have the right personal. Get rid of Barbosa and Bell and get a SG that fits the system better.

Agree. Nash should shoot more set shots with his perfect shooting form. Amare just needs more touches. Periods. His decision making with the ball has improved greatly this season.

 

[cly2tw]

But if amare is NOt the FEATURED player in the suns offense, how can he lead the suns in shot attempts?

He played way too many minutes, maybe? And more games than anyone as Black Jesus noted?

PS: the per min shot attempts

Barbosa, 0.45
Shaq, 0.352
Amare, 0.347
Barnes, 0.31
Nash, 0.307

Who is the FEATURED guy now?