Since I Promised My Round 1 Preferred Selection

Krangodnzr

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You saying you wouldn't draft Aaron Donald in the first? Reggie White? Donky Kong?
It's not the pick. It's the player.
Rather dude is a NT, DT, DE,OLB,CB,OT,TE,WR,OG,...whatever,...it don't matter if you get ten years of all pro play from him.
We had Larry,.... I didn't want him at that pick but I knew he was gonna be the pick because Denny was his godfather...
I harped on his **** route running all through his rookie contract and especially when it came time to renew. But Larry proved to be worth his draft slot.... lots of car salesmen got an extra year or two in the NFL because they had Larry to throw to..
On the other end we got Marco Wilson...4th round pick, premium position drafted with a non premium pick. Do we discount his play just because he was a 4th round pick? If he continues to develop, three years from now is anyone gonna claim he should get a smaller contract because he was only a fourth round pick? Maybe that's why Brady took all those small contracts with new England, because he was only a 6th round pick.

But speaking of pick value...maybe at 25 there is only one guy left that has a first round grade...and he is a OG.... so you would take the next edge guy instead even if he is rated third round?
Obviously some positions are harder to come by so when there's a guy there you take him.
But we shouldn't get hung up on positions... Obviously we need to replace Jones and get another starting quality corner. But we have other needs too, some more immediate than others... Og,oc, dt,de,olb,cb,wr,te,rb are all needs, some as immediate upgrades and others to replace guys who will be gone in a season or two
You're missing the point.

DL who are not pass rushers will never be worth a first round pick. Never.

The NFL is won by throwing the ball better and stopping the pass better. Unless your team is an absolute embarrassment stopping the run, you'll win if you can throw the ball better than your opponent.

That's why RBs, run stopping DTs, run down linebackers, and blocking TEs aren't worth high picks. You can routinely find good players later in the draft.

Derrick Brown has been a disappointment for the Panthers and it wasn't too hard to predict he would be, because he wasn't a great pass rusher in college.
 

MadCardDisease

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My niece goes to FSU so we watched a few games and this kid really stood out. Got to love his motor!
 

Stout

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You're missing the point.

DL who are not pass rushers will never be worth a first round pick. Never.

The NFL is won by throwing the ball better and stopping the pass better. Unless your team is an absolute embarrassment stopping the run, you'll win if you can throw the ball better than your opponent.

That's why RBs, run stopping DTs, run down linebackers, and blocking TEs aren't worth high picks. You can routinely find good players later in the draft.

Derrick Brown has been a disappointment for the Panthers and it wasn't too hard to predict he would be, because he wasn't a great pass rusher in college.
I don't fully agree with this, but cannot argue that it isn't a valid approach. I mean, I can always argue, but... :)
 

juza76

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I said you don’t draft guys that can’t play passing downs in the 1st round. I specifically noted that a couple of times on the first couple of pages. If you watched Cam Heyward, you would clearly know that he’s more than just only a run-stuffer. So yea, I did specifically say what kind of DT.

You don’t draft guys that are liabilities on passing downs in the first round.

Would u like walker from Georgia in round 1? He is 6'5 275 slimmed down from 290, he offers pass rushing skills
 

football karma

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on GA Jordan Davis: just because he is big doesnt mean he will be effective. Leki Fotu ought to be a great run defender, yet.........

seems like this draft has lots of CBs and lots of edge guys.

If i were the Cards GM: im trading back into round 2, and try to max out my picks between 33 and 96.
 

Matt L

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In the mix at 24 should be Olave and Jameson Williams. Williams is a top 7-10 talent with absolute game breaking speed.

I love Jameson Williams. I've seen mocks have him in the teens and I think that is way too late for him. If he's in the teens, I would trade up for him.
 

Russ Smith

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You're missing the point.

DL who are not pass rushers will never be worth a first round pick. Never.

The NFL is won by throwing the ball better and stopping the pass better. Unless your team is an absolute embarrassment stopping the run, you'll win if you can throw the ball better than your opponent.

That's why RBs, run stopping DTs, run down linebackers, and blocking TEs aren't worth high picks. You can routinely find good players later in the draft.

Derrick Brown has been a disappointment for the Panthers and it wasn't too hard to predict he would be, because he wasn't a great pass rusher in college.


Other teams can find good players later in the draft, if we could we wouldn't have had such a bad run defense the past 2 years.

There were other issues but IMO the primary reason our run defense fell apart was that JJ Watt was getting doubled and when he got hurt, that 2nd blocker instead of doubling Watt, was free to block someone else. Losing Watt gave the offenses an extra blocker and they killed us running all year. We literally had to change our LB's, bring up our safeties all of that because we couldn't stop the run. If run defenders are so unimportant why did all that happen to us this year?

We play in a division with 3 teams who historically are strong running teams.

if there's a good CB, WR, OL absolutely take them first. But in this draft there might not be, this is a weird draft we might not get a QB in the top 20 picks, it appears there's going to be runs on edge rushers and CB's and possibly WR's although even the WR's none of them are locks. You don't take the 8th best CB who's rated a 2nd rounder over the best DT in the first round and say it's because of pick value, if you do you picked by player need not BPA.
 

Russ Smith

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on GA Jordan Davis: just because he is big doesnt mean he will be effective. Leki Fotu ought to be a great run defender, yet.........

seems like this draft has lots of CBs and lots of edge guys.

If i were the Cards GM: im trading back into round 2, and try to max out my picks between 33 and 96.

OK but when did Fotu win the Bednarik award and teh Outland Trophy? Remember GA had the best defense in the country and Davis was winning awards on that defense. And if you saw the stats with him on the field and not on the field you would see his impact on their run defense was huge.

he's a far better prospect than Fotu, Fotu apparently ran a 5.15 40 at the combine. Davis ran a 4.82 at the Georgia workouts before this season I have no idea what he'll run now of course but he's much more athletic than Fotu.

We likely won't get a chance to pick him
 

Krangodnzr

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Other teams can find good players later in the draft, if we could we wouldn't have had such a bad run defense the past 2 years.

There were other issues but IMO the primary reason our run defense fell apart was that JJ Watt was getting doubled and when he got hurt, that 2nd blocker instead of doubling Watt, was free to block someone else. Losing Watt gave the offenses an extra blocker and they killed us running all year. We literally had to change our LB's, bring up our safeties all of that because we couldn't stop the run. If run defenders are so unimportant why did all that happen to us this year?

We play in a division with 3 teams who historically are strong running teams.

if there's a good CB, WR, OL absolutely take them first. But in this draft there might not be, this is a weird draft we might not get a QB in the top 20 picks, it appears there's going to be runs on edge rushers and CB's and possibly WR's although even the WR's none of them are locks. You don't take the 8th best CB who's rated a 2nd rounder over the best DT in the first round and say it's because of pick value, if you do you picked by player need not BPA.
I'm not against taking a DT, but I am against taking a run stopper in round one. It won't be the panacea people believe it will be.

Guys like Jordan Davis usually don't get big second contracts, and if they do, teams almost always regret it. You don't take players that play two downs high.
 

Krangodnzr

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OK but when did Fotu win the Bednarik award and teh Outland Trophy?
I think we've all watched enough football to know that these awards mean diddly poo.
Remember GA had the best defense in the country and Davis was winning awards on that defense. And if you saw the stats with him on the field and not on the field you would see his impact on their run defense was huge.
And sometimes guys who are surrounded by big time talent, fall flat on their face in the NFL. I think ignoring traits is a huge mistake. I remember people clamoring to take Derrick Brown and the knock on him right now is that he isn't a pass rusher or a difference maker. Smart teams don't take players that aren't difference makers in round one.
he's a far better prospect than Fotu, Fotu apparently ran a 5.15 40 at the combine. Davis ran a 4.82 at the Georgia workouts before this season I have no idea what he'll run now of course but he's much more athletic than Fotu.
I don't think how fast a NT runs the 40 matters much.
We likely won't get a chance to pick him
I hope we don't. I hope some other team makes that mistake.
 

Russ Smith

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lets face reality: all draft talk is limited to which linebacker Keim is taking: Nakobe Dean or Devin Lloyd

I actually like Dean, he's kind of what I think the Cards hoped Simmons would be. But we don't need him and he's a bit undersized
 

Russ Smith

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I think we've all watched enough football to know that these awards mean diddly poo.

And sometimes guys who are surrounded by big time talent, fall flat on their face in the NFL. I think ignoring traits is a huge mistake. I remember people clamoring to take Derrick Brown and the knock on him right now is that he isn't a pass rusher or a difference maker. Smart teams don't take players that aren't difference makers in round one.

I don't think how fast a NT runs the 40 matters much.

I hope we don't. I hope some other team makes that mistake.

40 time is a measure of athleticism , which is why NFL teams have players run it at the combine.

The awards have to go to someone and they went to a guy on the best defense in the country. If he wasn't any good they would have given them to someone else.

I had to google Derrick Brown I don't follow the Panthers. Fortunately Matt Rhule was pretty honest on why tehy benched him against Miami, "Sometimes when you're a young player and you're drafted high, you put a lot of pressure on yourself to get more sacks and have more production, then you get away from the fundamentals. When you realize that I'm going to have production if I stick to my fundamentals and get in a great stance and get my techniques...I think you saw a guy in Derrick that went out and did that. I'm very excited about Derrick Brown and his future but I put DaQuan [Jones] out there in the 3-technique this past game."

Literally saying in there the problem wasn't lack of sacks the problem was he thought he needed to get more sacks and as a result he wasn't doing his job as a run stuffer.

I keep saying this draft is different, there's no good QB's, there's no lock WR's so the guys we all cover, Edge, CB, OL they're all likely to get picked early and often this year. In a normal draft Jordan Davis might be a late first round early 2nd rounder, this isn't a normal draft
 

AZman5103

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Just FYI.. since your post I have seen Jermaine Johnson in mocks at 8, 12, and several in the later teens. We may have to move up for him
 

slanidrac16

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One thing is for certain. No matter who we draft Keim will claim it either it was the guy they targeted from day one or it is a player they had ranked much higher and he can’t believe he fell to us.
Another thing that is certain, no matter who Keim selects it will be the wrong guy.
 

juza76

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One thing is for certain. No matter who we draft Keim will claim it either it was the guy they targeted from day one or it is a player they had ranked much higher and he can’t believe he fell to us.
Another thing that is certain, no matter who Keim selects it will be the wrong guy.

What he has to do to increase his chances of making the right selection?
1)take days off at the draft weekend
2) picking the guys he likes less
3) hackering and spying other teams draft board?
 

slanidrac16

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What he has to do to increase his chances of making the right selection?
1)take days off at the draft weekend
2) picking the guys he likes less
3) hackering and spying other teams draft board?
He needs to pull a George Castanza.
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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We'll lose Jones through FA because his asking price will be steeper than his production & he ain't getting any younger. I'd love to have Reddick back at OLB, I think he signed with the Panthers for 1 year 8 million deal? Golden will start slipping in production in the next year or two so Jermaine Johnson might be a good pick at OLB? Now if we only had a DC who could figure out how to use Collins & Simmons lol? Jordan Davis from Georgia is a beast, I'm fine with him playing on 1st & 2nd running downs because we could use Phillips on 3rd down. May keep Phillips healthier with less snaps? There's many needs & many ways our draft can unfold. We need a true #1 CB also & #2 WR plus more depth at OG. The way our rush defense looked this season & the way the VJ scheme has historically performed against it, we could probably have an all pro DL & still suck at it. I'd like to have a DC that shuts the run down & at the very least is middle of the pack against the pass, is that asking for too much lol?
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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Jermaine Johnson olb Simmons ilb collins ilb hassan Reddick olb

Emmanuel ogbah de Larry Ogunjobi dt jj Watt dt/de

the young guys with a new dc will make the big leap

The front seven would be so much faster and powerful then before, hopefully we will not witness anymore bootleg from Stafford, cousins, Goff...

Still wondering how Jordan played 100% of the snaps, i hate slow ass linebacker
You hit the nail Square on the head there. Not only could VJ not stop that bootleg play against the Rams, he couldn't stop it against Goff in Detroit lol. Even after seeing it 100 times at least. The 49ers stopped that play exactly like I've said many times on how to do it. When Stafford is under center, send an occasional blitz off the edge to disrupt the timing, especially when you get the same look as the last time they ran it.
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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I'm just going to have to assume that you haven't read what I've been saying all season. My belief is it's more scheme than anything else. You'll see the Cardinals getting gashed by the run, but little old Vance doesn't change his scheme to fit what the offense is doing.
He's horrible at it. Dolphin & Bronco fans constantly complained about his rush defense, our DL with the exception of Watt can't shed blocks or require double teams which makes his scheme even worse.
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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This draft is deep on CBs. I’d think they might target a CB in round 2. I haven’t posted this before but when the Bucs won the Super Bowl many touted their versatile LBs. I think the Cards admired and tried to emulate that success, yielding Simmons & Collins. That strategy seems to be a failure. I‘m releasing Pugh. I see a couple of reasonably priced FA guards the Cards could target. They should re-sign Ertz & Conner. They should extend Humphries.
I'm not high on Pugh either, I also think we can replace him in FA. Maybe watch all the Rams games & see which guard even remotely had success at slowing Donald down? If that guy is a FA & checks all the boxes then sign him if possible? Let's face it, the Rams are the team to beat in our division & slowing Donald down gives Kyler a better chance at completing a pass without running for his life. I think Justin Murray will be fine at RG, hopefully his back gets healed? Maybe Josh Jones will pan out?
 
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