Rumor: Cards have made a trade

[BritCard]

He's not young CHEAP talent, and I'm talking about guys under the age of 25. Cost controlled draft picks, of which we have 3 confirmed starters from Keim's entire draft history. Kyler, Budda, and Kirk. That's it. No other locked in starters. It's insane.

You mean like Cooper, Buc, Reddick etc? Guys that contributed little that we are locked into paying?

I'll take the young, PROVEN, cheap guy.

Paying Diggs 11m is like paying Conklin 10. Bargain.

 

[Solar7]

You mean like Cooper, Buc, Reddick etc? Guys that contributed little that we are locked into paying?

I'll take the young, PROVEN, cheap guy.

Paying Diggs 11m is like paying Conklin 10. Bargain.

We're not locked into paying any of those guys.

Diggs is not "cheap." You can't pay 20 guys $10m each. Successful teams are not built exclusively through trades and free agency in the modern NFL. Please feel free to point out one great team in the league who is not there because of their strong drafting. There isn't one. Fail to draft well, fail to win.

 

[Ohcrap75]

This reminds me of a mini AP Trade thread. Funny this is also a Vikings player.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I would prefer Cooper to Diggs.

Note - this is mostly because of my strong desire not to give up our top #1 or #2 draft pick, not necessarily because I think Cooper is leaps and bounds better than Diggs.

If we do make a move for either Cooper or Diggs, I'll be really surprised by the aggressiveness. I wanted Cooper early in the offseason when I wasn't as aware of our depleted roster.

Interesting.

I’m not a big fan of Cooper. I think he’s a good, not great, wr who is likely going to be paid as a great wr to make him happy.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah, I'm also confused with this approach given the draft depth, but maybe Keim is actually invested in those OL guys/defensive guys and just knows we're not going to take Lamb pretty much no matter what.

The best place to bargain for a position is when there are multiple guys available on the trade market and a position rich draft. You’ve got all the leverage.

 

[Ohcrap75]

This is Awesome! Diggs on Family Feud

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[BritCard]

We're not locked into paying any of those guys.

Diggs is not "cheap." You can't pay 20 guys $10m each. Successful teams are not built exclusively through trades and free agency in the modern NFL. Please feel free to point out one great team in the league who is not there because of their strong drafting. There isn't one. Fail to draft well, fail to win.

We are locked into paying under performing rookies. Rookie deals are guaranteed. We have payed Reddick 13.5m for awful LB play. If we draft Lamb and he sucks, like a whole bunch of 1st round WRs, then we are locked into all that money.

Diggs is proven.

Here's a 1st for you. Diggs led all WRs in yards and TDs on passes over 20 yards. He's the deep threat we don't have that opens up the offense.

 

[Solar7]

The best place to bargain for a position is when there are multiple guys available on the trade market and a position rich draft. You’ve got all the leverage.

True, there's just a ton of guys who I think have a better upside and attitude than Diggs. Sure, there's value to having a top 20 WR, but I want a guy who could be top 10.

And not top ten in advanced analytics, or ranking based off of a bunch of subjective factors which WRs you'd want, but top ten in true production up against his peers.

 

[DVontel]

Your obsession with the tread on tires concept is baffling. I want a guy who has proven himself if I'm going to give up a bunch of assets and money. I don't want to hand him assets and money and then expect that he's going to turn around and do things he hasn't done before. That's it. I don't want an RB with 1,000 carries or anything, just show me one example you can be "the guy." Not the case for Drake, not the case for Diggs.

A bunch of assets? You mean a 2nd rounder that we would strongly hoped to be as good as Diggs?

I want to aim for players that I believe are entering their prime like a Diggs or Drake(not a super overpay). Hell, Chandler Jones was a gigantic example of one. Not players that shows cracks of getting out of their prime(like a Patrick Peterson for example). It seems like you’re more toward the latter. You don’t want to let go.

 

[iLLmatiC]

At least that had a player attached to it. This literally:

someone with some knowledge there’s a trade that might be brewing.



it cracks me up that it’s generated this much discussion.

Shows how desperate we are for Cardinals news.

 

[Solar7]

We are locked into paying under performing rookies. Rookie deals are guaranteed. We have payed Reddick 13.5m for awful LB play. If we draft Lamb and he sucks, like a whole bunch of 1st round WRs, then we are locked into all that money.

Diggs is proven.

Here's a 1st for you. Diggs led all WRs in yards and TDs on passes over 20 yards. He's the deep threat we don't have that opens up the offense.

No, they absolutely are not.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/05/16/nfl-rookie-contracts-fine-print

Though the CBA drastically reduced pay for top rookies, agents have extracted a measure of redemption with guarantees. Most first-round contracts are fully guaranteed for all four years. Second-round contracts are usually guaranteed for the first two years, although late in the round it appears only the first year is fully guaranteed, with a partial guarantee in 2018. Below the second round, only the signing bonus is guaranteed.

Diggs is proven to be an outside the top 15 WR. And nothing more. Could he get better? Sure. Who knows. But he is what he is.

 

[DVontel]

Julio.
Nuk.
Thomas.
Evans.
Hill.
Adams.
Odell.


Factoring their current scheme fit, production, & skillset I find it really hard of thinking who’s better than Diggs outside of those 7.

 

[BritCard]

No, they absolutely are not.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/05/16/nfl-rookie-contracts-fine-print

Though the CBA drastically reduced pay for top rookies, agents have extracted a measure of redemption with guarantees. Most first-round contracts are fully guaranteed for all four years. Second-round contracts are usually guaranteed for the first two years, although late in the round it appears only the first year is fully guaranteed, with a partial guarantee in 2018. Below the second round, only the signing bonus is guaranteed.

Diggs is proven to be an outside the top 15 WR. And nothing more. Could he get better? Sure. Who knows. But he is what he is.

We are clearly talking about Diggs as an alternative to a receiver at 8 which would be 18m+ fully guaranteed.

 

[Solar7]

A bunch of assets? You mean a 2nd rounder that we would strongly hoped to be as good as Diggs?

I want to aim for players that I believe are entering their prime like a Diggs or Drake(not a super overpay). Hell, Chandler Jones was a gigantic example of one. Not players that shows cracks of getting out of their prime(like a Patrick Peterson for example). It seems like you’re more toward the latter. You don’t want to let go.

A 2nd round pick doesn't cost $10 million per year. Stop sucking at drafting and this isn't an issue. Can't trade for and pay every single player. It doesn't work like that. This team isn't a Diggs away from a championship.

Chandler Jones was already proven with the Patriots. He was a Pro-Bowler. That's a poor comparison to Drake or Diggs.

 

[AZman5103]

No, they absolutely are not.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/05/16/nfl-rookie-contracts-fine-print

Though the CBA drastically reduced pay for top rookies, agents have extracted a measure of redemption with guarantees. Most first-round contracts are fully guaranteed for all four years. Second-round contracts are usually guaranteed for the first two years, although late in the round it appears only the first year is fully guaranteed, with a partial guarantee in 2018. Below the second round, only the signing bonus is guaranteed.

Diggs is proven to be an outside the top 15 WR. And nothing more. Could he get better? Sure. Who knows. But he is what he is.

He brought up Cooper, Buc, and Reddick....all 1st round picks. We paid them for 4 years.

We are all getting WAY ahead of ourselves. If this trade for Diggs is real and it was for a 3rd or lower....or a lower pick plus a player that is not in our long term plans...then it is a homerun no questions about it.

If it's for a 2nd...its questionable whether or not you would be able to draft a WR at #40 that could be as productive as Diggs...but I would think the chances are lower than 50/50 that the #40 picks develops to be as good/better than Diggs.

If it's for a 1st, it would be a bad deal...but I REALLY doubt we would be giving up a 1st with the amount of leverage we should have had in a trade like this.

 

[Solar7]

We are clearly talking about Diggs as an alternative to a receiver at 8 which would be 18m+ fully guaranteed.

No, we're not. We are not locked into picking a WR at 8, and we could take one in the 2nd round. Diggs could go for a 2nd round pick if he's even being traded at all. You're the one setting the market value at a top-ten pick for arbitrary reasons.

Julio.
Nuk.
Thomas.
Evans.
Hill.
Adams.
Odell.


Factoring their current scheme fit, production, & skillset I find it really hard of thinking who’s better than Diggs outside of those 7.

He's not even the best WR on his own team.

 

[DVontel]

No, we're not. We are not locked into picking a WR at 8, and we could take one in the 2nd round. Diggs could go for a 2nd round pick if he's even being traded at all. You're the one setting the market value at a top-ten pick for arbitrary reasons.


He's not even the best WR on his own team.

I used to think that until I actually watched him go against CB1s while Thielen took advantage of the CB2s most of the time.

 

[Solar7]

He brought up Cooper, Buc, and Reddick....all 1st round picks. We paid them for 4 years.

We are all getting WAY ahead of ourselves. If this trade for Diggs is real and it was for a 3rd or lower....or a lower pick plus a player that is not in our long term plans...then it is a homerun no questions about it.

If it's for a 2nd...its questionable whether or not you would be able to draft a WR at #40 that could be as productive as Diggs...but I would think the chances are lower than 50/50 that the #40 picks develops to be as good/better than Diggs.

If it's for a 1st, it would be a bad deal...but I REALLY doubt we would be giving up a 1st with the amount of leverage we should have had in a trade like this.

He brought up Cooper, Buc, and Reddick. We didn't pay Cooper's entire contract, we traded him, and NE paid a portion. Still, his statement was that all rookie deals are guaranteed, which they absolutely are not.

 

[Solar7]

I used to think that until I actually watched him go against CB1s while Thielen took advantage of the CB2s most of the time.

He still had an offense around him that had to account for another highly talented WR, and one of the best running backs in the NFL.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Turns out I was replying to cheese with this, but here it is. This is from January, so apologies for some things being out of date.

Hmm I don’t think that ends up being reasonable. You can I my use the first pick in one player and here you talk about it potentially being used for WR, OT, ILB.

so if i read right this is kinda what you’re proposing:
Conklin
Shipley (can’t sign anyone else worth $ with what you’ve got here)
Resign Humphries
Sign AJ Green
Sign judon/Beasley/Dupree/golden
Sign Shelby little
Sign armstead (dependent upon judon/etc)
Sign Collins

substitute 8th pick for one of above

I don’t see how that’s possible.

 

[slanidrac16]

Lol! If we could take a few select posters here and put it on a podcast it would be a riot!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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That’s funny.

 

[DVontel]

He still had an offense around him that had to account for another highly talented WR, and one of the best running backs in the NFL.

A run-dominant offense that doesn’t cater to his fullest potential. He doesn’t have the situation that Chris Godwin & Mike Evans are in(high octane passing attack) or a Tyreek Hill & Sammy Watkins.

Dude, you got account for the scheme players are in. You never do for some reason!


I’m usually against hypotheticals, but I guarantee if he would a career year by far if he got traded to us.


& holy hell, I just noticed you wanted AJ Green. What is with you & wanting these players that’s clearly out of their/heading out of their prime???

 

[RON_IN_OC]

unfortunately I don’t think Gronk has the legs to take it on the run anymore

He's signing with WWE.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Solar7]

Hmm I don’t think that ends up being reasonable. You can I my use the first pick in one player and here you talk about it potentially being used for WR, OT, ILB.

so if i read right this is kinda what you’re proposing:
Conklin
Shipley (can’t sign anyone else worth $ with what you’ve got here)
Resign Humphries
Sign AJ Green
Sign judon/Beasley/Dupree/golden
Sign Shelby little
Sign armstead (dependent upon judon/etc)
Sign Collins

substitute 8th pick for one of above

I don’t see how that’s possible.

Again, it's from January, so lots of this isn't possible anymore, but the point was to show you that there's lots of moves I wouldn't be mad about. Not that it's a surefire plan and exactly where I would go today.

I think Conklin would be a great signing, we already added Humphries, AJ Green is franchised so not an option, so now WR is probably ideally addressed at some point in the draft, Judon and Dupree are off the market, so Beasley or Golden are options, the 49ers just got a deal to keep negotiating with Arik Armstead or franchise him right before the start of FA, so he's off the table... Collins you can replace with any mid-tier ILB.

Ideally you're getting one higher-priced FA, and then building the DL with a good set of rotational guys that could still let you draft someone. Fill the OLB role, probably ILB as well.

You focus primarily on the gaping holes this roster has in terms of needing to sign 13 players (or so) to get to 53, and getting adequate NFL starters into each role before you worry about trading picks and signing huge contracts with guys who barely break into the top 20 at their positions.