Roster ideas and rumors for Suns

[1Sun]

John Gambadoro thinks a trade for Thad Young is unlikely.

I think there are plenty of minutes for Young if the Suns added him. Torrey Craig averaged 18 minutes a game with Phoenix.

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Cam should not play a single minute at the 4 as long as he is at only 210 pounds. He should primarily back up Bridges at the 3 and even play spot minutes at the 2.

The Bucks (and the Lakers before Davis got hurt) provided a road map in the Finals for the rest of the league to attack this Suns roster (go big up front and bowl over Jae and Cam while tiring Ayton and/or getting him into foul trouble). Just adding a back-up for Ayton doesn't counter that obvious game plan sufficiently. As the roster currently stands, the only way the Suns will be able to win games is for the guards and wings (including Cam and Jae) to shoot lights out from the outside.

 

[Mainstreet]

Exploring the idea of acquiring Thad Young without a trade.

Perhaps he would take less money in a buyout with the Spurs if the Suns would pay him more money on this end.

The Suns still have $4.5 million of the MLE remaining.

 

[1Sun]

Exploring the idea of acquiring Thad Young without a trade.

Perhaps he would take less money in a buyout with the Spurs if the Suns would pay him more money on this end.

The Suns still have $4.5 million of the MLE remaining.

And why exactly would the Spurs do that? I am pretty sure that the Spurs aren't in the mood just to help the Suns without getting anything in return.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Spurs aren't going anywhere this season and saving millions of dollars can be a motivator.

 

[1Sun]

The Spurs aren't going anywhere this season and saving millions of dollars can be a motivator.

Unlike certain other owners, the Spurs' moves aren't motivated by that...

 

[Mainstreet]

What is really interesting is to read through the comments after Gambo's tweet. He thinks Young wouldn't even get 20 minutes a game for the Suns.

I'd ask him how about 18 minutes which is what Craig averaged.

 

[Finito]

The Spurs aren't going anywhere this season and saving millions of dollars can be a motivator.

isn’t he a free agent at the end of the year anyway?

he’s also a good player so why would they just give him away

 

[Mainstreet]

isn’t he a free agent at the end of the year anyway?

he’s also a good player so why would they just give him away

This is the question. If the Suns are interested in Thad Young but are unlikely to trade for him the only other way they can acquire him for the 2021-22 season is if the Spurs bought him and waived him.

If the Spurs were to do this the only motivator I can see (if it were to happen) is to save money.

The rumor is Thad Young wants to play for the Suns. Would he accept less money to play for Phoenix?

If Young were to accept less money in a buyout, the Suns could help make up the difference as they have $4.5 million left of the MLE.

 

[Finito]

This is the question. If the Suns are interested in Thad Young but are unlikely to trade for him the only other way they can acquire him for the 2021-22 season is if the Spurs bought him and waived him.

If the Spurs were to do this the only motivator I can see (if it were to happen) is to save money.

The rumor is Thad Young wants to play for the Suns. Would he accept less money to play for Phoenix?

If Young were to accept less money in a buyout, the Suns could help make up the difference as they have $4.5 million left of the MLE.

thats a lot of “ifs”

SA isn’t going to buy him out. He doesn’t really make a lot of money, he’s in his last year, he’s a good player and there not really in a bad money situation

 

[Mainstreet]

thats a lot of “ifs”

SA isn’t going to buy him out. He doesn’t really make a lot of money, he’s in his last year, he’s a good player and there not really in a bad money situation

It is a lot of "ifs."

Yet Shams Charania and Flex From Jersey have mentioned the Suns interest in Thad Young. Maybe it's all about negotiation or the Suns move on.

 

[1Sun]

It is a lot of "ifs."

Yet Shams Charania and Flex From Jersey have mentioned the Suns interest in Thad Young. Maybe it's all about negotiation or the Suns move on.

They should have signed a back-up option already, in any event. Even if the totally unlikely buyout happens, they could always cut a minimum salary guy like Kaminsky or Nader or apply for the Disabled Player Exception (which they could then use on Young) if they need the extra roster spot. And if they have to trade for Young, they are going to have the extra roster spot to fill anyway.

 

[AzStevenCal]

They should have signed a back-up option already, in any event. Even if the totally unlikely buyout happens, they could always cut a minimum salary guy like Kaminsky or Nader or apply for the Disabled Player Exception (which they could then use on Young) if they need the extra roster spot. And if they have to trade for Young, they are going to have the extra roster spot to fill anyway.

You just described a mess AFAIC. Who are we going to get that is good enough to beat out Cameron Johnson and is available and is interested and is in our price range and is okay knowing we are likely to move him to the number 3 spot when we get Young? First off, despite your never ending crusade against Cameron, there aren't a lot of available forwards that can beat out Cameron for the backup spot, forget about all the rest of it.

And you seem awfully cavalier about team chemistry. Good players want minutes, minutes we don't have much of. Making a plan that will include jettisoning Kaminsky and/or Nader because we found a guy that might help us a tiny bit sounds very McD-like. He turned over rosters like his life depended on it and while his poor choices are what primarily doomed us, we also suffered from a complete lack of familiarity between players and coaches because of that decade of turnover.

 

[Covert Rain]

The Suns are interested in several players and the Spurs let team know a long time ago that they were shopping Young. The Suns are interested in player X but may or may not get him is not "insider" news.

 

[1Sun]

You just described a mess AFAIC. Who are we going to get that is good enough to beat out Cameron Johnson and is available and is interested and is in our price range and is okay knowing we are likely to move him to the number 3 spot when we get Young? First off, despite your never ending crusade against Cameron, there aren't a lot of available forwards that can beat out Cameron for the backup spot, forget about all the rest of it.

And you seem awfully cavalier about team chemistry. Good players want minutes, minutes we don't have much of. Making a plan that will include jettisoning Kaminsky and/or Nader because we found a guy that might help us a tiny bit sounds very McD-like. He turned over rosters like his life depended on it and while his poor choices are what primarily doomed us, we also suffered from a complete lack of familiarity between players and coaches because of that decade of turnover.

You're missing my point. At the 4, literally ANY actual NBA power forward (and no, Jalen Smith doesn't count, as he has proved he is not an NBA player, at least not yet) is better than the 6'8", 210 pound, slender, frail Cameron Johnson.

Forcing Cam to play that badly out of position hurts both the team (as we saw in the Lakers and Bucks series in the playoffs, and even in the Clippers series to a certain extent) AND Cam (who doesn't get to play his natural position at the wing). AND it hurts whomever is playing Center, leaving him on an island by himself inside to fight for rebounds and try to protect the paint. AND it puts more strain on CP3 and Booker to carry the team, leaving them gassed and susceptible to injury as the season progresses. This team absolutely HAS to find a way to get some semblance of an inside game (on both ends of the court) out of something other than the Center position if it wants any hope of success against the improved and healthy competition in the West this season. Otherwise, the team will have to shoot at least at a 55% clip from 2 and 45% from 3 to win 50 games.

Cam should be playing 20 minutes or so per game at the 3 primarily and at the 2 secondarily. Unless he can put on 10-20 pounds and KEEP it on (which he couldn't do after the bubble), Cameron Johnson is NOT a power forward. In fact, in terms of physique, Mikal Bridges (at an inch shorter but with longer arms and 5 pounds heavier than Cam) is more of a power forward than Cam is, and Bridges at power forward would be an abject disaster.

And losing guys at the end of the roster who aren't going to play anyway in favor of filling an enormous hole for 20 minutes a game isn't going to kill team chemistry, especially given the negative effects on the roster of not doing so noted above. Adding to a rotation to fill its holes is a necessity. Otherwise, why bother even picking up McGee and Shamet? By your logic, we should have kept Carter, Moore and Galloway, forfeited our draft pick, re-signed Torrey Craig and left the void at back-up center as well as power forward.

Power forward was the biggest weakness on the roster heading into the offseason, and it only got weaker with the departure of Torrey Craig. I would gladly sacrifice the 14th or 15th spot on the roster for a key addition to the rotation, in order to avoid being exploited by bigger opposing line-ups the way we were in the playoffs, especially in the Finals.

 

[JerkFace]

They should have signed a back-up option already, in any event. Even if the totally unlikely buyout happens, they could always cut a minimum salary guy like Kaminsky or Nader or apply for the Disabled Player Exception (which they could then use on Young) if they need the extra roster spot. And if they have to trade for Young, they are going to have the extra roster spot to fill anyway.

As of now, they can’t apply for DPE (well technically they can but it would be rejected). The doctor that preformed the surgery said that the knee looked better than expected and there is a small chance that Saric could return at some point towards the end of the season. The only way the DPE gets approved is if there is 0% chance of the player returning.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You're missing my point. At the 4, literally ANY actual NBA power forward (and no, Jalen Smith doesn't count, as he has proved he is not an NBA player, at least not yet) is better than the 6'8", 210 pound, slender, frail Cameron Johnson.

Forcing Cam to play that badly out of position hurts both the team (as we saw in the Lakers and Bucks series in the playoffs, and even in the Clippers series to a certain extent) AND Cam (who doesn't get to play his natural position at the wing). AND it hurts whomever is playing Center, leaving him on an island by himself inside to fight for rebounds and try to protect the paint. AND it puts more strain on CP3 and Booker to carry the team, leaving them gassed and susceptible to injury as the season progresses. This team absolutely HAS to find a way to get some semblance of an inside game (on both ends of the court) out of something other than the Center position if it wants any hope of success against the improved and healthy competition in the West this season. Otherwise, the team will have to shoot at least at a 55% clip from 2 and 45% from 3 to win 50 games.

Cam should be playing 20 minutes or so per game at the 3 primarily and at the 2 secondarily. Unless he can put on 10-20 pounds and KEEP it on (which he couldn't do after the bubble), Cameron Johnson is NOT a power forward. In fact, in terms of physique, Mikal Bridges (at an inch shorter but with longer arms and 5 pounds heavier than Cam) is more of a power forward than Cam is, and Bridges at power forward would be an abject disaster.

And losing guys at the end of the roster who aren't going to play anyway in favor of filling an enormous hole for 20 minutes a game isn't going to kill team chemistry, especially given the negative effects on the roster of not doing so noted above. Adding to a rotation to fill its holes is a necessity. Otherwise, why bother even picking up McGee and Shamet? By your logic, we should have kept Carter, Moore and Galloway, forfeited our draft pick, re-signed Torrey Craig and left the void at back-up center as well as power forward.

Power forward was the biggest weakness on the roster heading into the offseason, and it only got weaker with the departure of Torrey Craig. I would gladly sacrifice the 14th or 15th spot on the roster for a key addition to the rotation, in order to avoid being exploited by bigger opposing line-ups the way we were in the playoffs, especially in the Finals.

I got your point but IMO you aren't just a little bit wrong, you're incredibly wrong. Are there nights when we need more size, more muscle? Absolutely. But there are far more nights when he creates problems for the other team that don't show up in his stats. We don't have 20 minutes a night for players like Trey Lyles or Jeff Green. They would rarely get off the bench. And although I like having him here, AFAIC Torrey Craig playing the 4 spot caused more problems for us then it did the opponent.

A few teams are trying to drag us back to 2005. If they succeed, we and many teams will have to re-think the way they fill out their roster and players like Cameron Johnson will become afterthoughts. But until/unless that happens, we need a bigger guy at the 4 for the occasional game, not as our regular backup power forward. And you're not getting a difference maker at that spot when you're limited by money and minutes as we are.

 

[Hoop Head]

As of now, they can’t apply for DPE (well technically they can but it would be rejected). The doctor that preformed the surgery said that the knee looked better than expected and there is a small chance that Saric could return at some point towards the end of the season. The only way the DPE gets approved is if there is 0% chance of the player returning.

Plus getting the DPE means we can't trade Saric at all this season, limiting our options. Saric and his salary aren't high value assets but they do provide some flexibility. Without being able to deal him, we'd be forced to trade a rotation player like Cam or Mikal to make a deal. So not applying for it allows for more flexibility, not less.

 

[Muggz]

I got your point but IMO you aren't just a little bit wrong, you're incredibly wrong. Are there nights when we need more size, more muscle? Absolutely. But there are far more nights when he creates problems for the other team that don't show up in his stats. We don't have 20 minutes a night for players like Trey Lyles or Jeff Green. They would rarely get off the bench. And although I like having him here, AFAIC Torrey Craig playing the 4 spot caused more problems for us then it did the opponent.

A few teams are trying to drag us back to 2005. If they succeed, we and many teams will have to re-think the way they fill out their roster and players like Cameron Johnson will become afterthoughts. But until/unless that happens, we need a bigger guy at the 4 for the occasional game, not as our regular backup power forward. And you're not getting a difference maker at that spot when you're limited by money and minutes as we are.

Really just for the playoffs. We could get by during the reg season w/o but we will need some size at the 4 come playoff time. Why not get someone in here now that could buy in to the whole family thingy and have time to gel with the boys.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Really just for the playoffs. We could get by during the reg season w/o but we will need some size at the 4 come playoff time. Why not get someone in here now that could buy in to the whole family thingy and have time to gel with the boys.

Sure but finding the right guy is the challenge. Most likely, the right guy, that guy capable of giving us good minutes on occasion but willing to ride the bench most nights is an older veteran that won't be available until the midseason.

We could fill out the roster right now but it would be a waste of time IMO unless we find someone that could actually challenge for rotation minutes. If we can't find that guy, I'd rather fill the second two-way contract (more practice bodies) and just wait for the buyouts.

To be clear, if we can get a real asset right now (someone like T Young), we need to do it right now. Otherwise, waiting is fine.

 

[Hoop Head]

Really just for the playoffs. We could get by during the reg season w/o but we will need some size at the 4 come playoff time. Why not get someone in here now that could buy in to the whole family thingy and have time to gel with the boys.

How many teams have signed a player to ride the pine all season just to use them in the playoffs? Serious question. I can't think of a single instance of that that didn't involve an injury of some sort.

Like Steve said, we're likely better off waiting for the buyout market to find a PF type of player if we still need one then for a playoff run. There isn't anyone that fits the bill available now bury on the bench and hope they'll earn their keep come playoff time.

 

[1Sun]

I got your point but IMO you aren't just a little bit wrong, you're incredibly wrong. Are there nights when we need more size, more muscle? Absolutely. But there are far more nights when he creates problems for the other team that don't show up in his stats. We don't have 20 minutes a night for players like Trey Lyles or Jeff Green. They would rarely get off the bench. And although I like having him here, AFAIC Torrey Craig playing the 4 spot caused more problems for us then it did the opponent.

A few teams are trying to drag us back to 2005. If they succeed, we and many teams will have to re-think the way they fill out their roster and players like Cameron Johnson will become afterthoughts. But until/unless that happens, we need a bigger guy at the 4 for the occasional game, not as our regular backup power forward. And you're not getting a difference maker at that spot when you're limited by money and minutes as we are.

Look at the last 3 champions. It has already happened.

 

[1Sun]

Sure but finding the right guy is the challenge. Most likely, the right guy, that guy capable of giving us good minutes on occasion but willing to ride the bench most nights is an older veteran that won't be available until the midseason.

We could fill out the roster right now but it would be a waste of time IMO unless we find someone that could actually challenge for rotation minutes. If we can't find that guy, I'd rather fill the second two-way contract (more practice bodies) and just wait for the buyouts.

To be clear, if we can get a real asset right now (someone like T Young), we need to do it right now. Otherwise, waiting is fine.

And what happens if/when we get swept by the bigger teams in the West in the regular season in the meantime because we don't have the size at the 4 to compete with them? At a bare minimum, that approach costs us home court in the playoffs.

 

[AzStevenCal]

And what happens if/when we get swept by the bigger teams in the West in the regular season in the meantime because we don't have the size at the 4 to compete with them? At a bare minimum, that approach costs us home court in the playoffs.

We didn't get swept by the bigger teams in the regular season, for the most part we ran them into the ground. Teams that had as much talent (if not more) AND were bigger than us posed a problem but those teams were few and far between.

You and a few others keep ignoring what really happened in the playoffs IMO. Our guards and wings were enough of an advantage to force other teams to adjust to us until injuries limited us, then we were forced to adjust to them. And we failed. A backup big man might not have made a difference. It think it would have taken a good starting caliber power forward to give us a chance to negate the Bucks advantage in the front court.

 

[Covert Rain]

As of now, they can’t apply for DPE (well technically they can but it would be rejected). The doctor that preformed the surgery said that the knee looked better than expected and there is a small chance that Saric could return at some point towards the end of the season. The only way the DPE gets approved is if there is 0% chance of the player returning.

Even if he could he won't be effective. We have seen guys comeback early before and it typically doesn't play out well in terms of contribution.

Also, we cannot go into the playoffs with Cam getting most minutes at PF. Yes we had a good plus/minus in the regular season but so does small ball. The further you get into the playoffs the more he will be exposed. That position was completely exposed in the finals. We will never win a title with Cam getting the bulk of the minutes at PF.

 

[1Sun]

We didn't get swept by the bigger teams in the regular season, for the most part we ran them into the ground. Teams that had as much talent (if not more) AND were bigger than us posed a problem but those teams were few and far between.

You and a few others keep ignoring what really happened in the playoffs IMO. Our guards and wings were enough of an advantage to force other teams to adjust to us until injuries limited us, then we were forced to adjust to them. And we failed. A backup big man might not have made a difference. It think it would have taken a good starting caliber power forward to give us a chance to negate the Bucks advantage in the front court.

While flawed, we at least had Saric to play minutes up front, and Torrey Craig as well. In the wins we did get against the bigger teams, they were very much our saving grace. We now have neither.

What you are missing is that we struggled just as much against the Lakers in the playoffs, until AD got hurt. Other teams in the West whose size gave us trouble in the regular season include the Pelicans, the Grizzlies, the Clippers (when their front court wasn't depleted with injuries), the Nuggets (when Murray wasn't hurt), and the Kings.