Rod Graves Signs 3 Year Extension

[Paso Fino]

Who was responsible for failing to address the OL situation for at least three years?

 

[D-Dogg]

Ok, I have come back around on Graves. He wasn't involved in the coach search last time, was he? Wasn't that Mike leading the charge then? It seems the Cards are putting these next few years all on Graves...Coach, players, everything.

I personally like Graves, he is a very honorable, nice guy. I think the jury is still out on him as a GM/Personnel type of guy but the way the Cards have operated SINCE Denny came in (including signing Denny) is vastly different to even 6 years ago. Graves has a hand in that, but how much none of us know.

I have no issue with Graves staying. However, this is it...in these three years we better be at LEAST challenging for the NFC Championship game.

 

[kerouac9]

As far as saying that the Cards were only one of two players away from winning when the season was very young---he wasn't the only one who said that or felt that way and that includes a lot of people on this board. The Cards should have won this year. The talent was there, but the coaching didn't come up to the level it should have been at until the latter part of the season. With a few breaks and better coaching decisions, this team could have been 9 and 6 and would have won the division.

Actually, 40, he said that the Cards were not 1 or 2 players away from contention, and that was his reasoning behind going into the season $10 million under the cap. But please continue to make stuff up, or whatever.

 

[conraddobler]

Actually, 40, he said that the Cards were not 1 or 2 players away from contention, and that was his reasoning behind going into the season $10 million under the cap. But please continue to make stuff up, or whatever.

Exactly that one statement had me burning for days and now he has the gonads to say we aren't that far away.....

This man has done precious little to inspire anything and now he's leading the charge for a HC... awesome.

This is just stupid.

 

[joeshmo]

So I'm off by a week. Big flippin deal. Do you remember Wadsworth? The Cards used to have problems every year getting their first round draft in by the time the season started. They no longer have that problem and you can thank M. Bidwill and R. Graves for that.

Man we set the bar pretty low around here, when a guy gets credit for not having rookie holdouts into the season and now only having holdouts into training camp.

Its like putting a ribbon on a turd. It may look better but it still stinks.

When the cards are up to par with the rest of the NFL in this regard then I will give them kudos for change.

 

[ajcardfan]

Exactly that one statement had me burning for days and now he has the gonads to say we aren't that far away.....

This man has done precious little to inspire anything and now he's leading the charge for a HC... awesome.

This is just stupid.

That statement still burns me up. It was the most single absurd statement I've ever heard anyone in a NFL front office say DURING a season. I mean, even if that's what you truly believe, you don't SAY it for Gawd's sake! You might as well give each player on the team a basket of bath lotions with a card saying, "We know you're losing, but you are doing the best you can!"

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Does anyone know his contract details? I'm sure he is the lowest paid GM, excuse me,VP of football operations, in the league. That's why he's still working for the Cards. I still remember a few years ago when he was supposedly a candidate for the Falcons GM job. Why could'nt they have hired him, why, why .

 

[Duckjake]

You might as well give each player on the team a basket of bath lotions with a card saying, "We know you're losing, but you are doing the best you can!"

That seems to have been the Cardinals Corporate philosophy for several years.

 

[40yearfan]

Actually, 40, he said that the Cards were not 1 or 2 players away from contention, and that was his reasoning behind going into the season $10 million under the cap. But please continue to make stuff up, or whatever.

So what was made up? Are you saying your opinion is more valid than mine even though yours is complete speculation also? What is it with you K9 that you can't argue a point without getting personal? If you don't like my opinion, please put me on ignore.

 

[40yearfan]

Man we set the bar pretty low around here, when a guy gets credit for not having rookie holdouts into the season and now only having holdouts into training camp.

Its like putting a ribbon on a turd. It may look better but it still stinks.

When the cards are up to par with the rest of the NFL in this regard then I will give them kudos for change.

So your opinion is that the Cards are still not doing business like most of the rest of the NFL even considering the player extensions and draft signings? I guess you are entitled to your opinion, but I sure don't agree with you. If you can't see how this organization has changed in the past 4 or 5 years, you have not been a fan of this organization for very long.

The Cards never extended anyone until their contracts were up and then only if they were willing to accept a smaller amount than they could get from anyone else. They had holdouts from almost every draft class every year. They never hired an NFL coach with previous HC experience, but only guys who would work cheap. While Green might not have worked out, they did pay dearly for him and allowed him complete authority with the players and his assistants. As Skkorp said, the Cards swallowed the contracts of 7 coaches during Green's tenure. That would never have happened with the old Cardinals.

The Cardinals are showing a willingness to spend and it's obvious that M Bidwill wants to win. They've cleared the first and toughest hurdle. Now they need to learn how to run this team and turn it into a winner. I personally believe they are a lot closer than most on this board feel they are and I think they have done the right thing by keeping Graves and not completely gutting the adminstrative side of this team. Right now, this gives us the chance to compete quickly and not go through the whole rebuilding process again. Only time will tell if it's the right move, but at least it's a move in the right direction.

 

[kerouac9]

So what was made up? Are you saying your opinion is more valid than mine even though yours is complete speculation also? What is it with you K9 that you can't argue a point without getting personal? If you don't like my opinion, please put me on ignore.

You characterized Rod Graves as saying the exact opposite of what he actually said. How is that not making something up. You made the statement that our rookie holdouts have only been a week long. That's counter-factual. Didn't Matt Leinart's holdout extend into the first two preseason games? Are you daft?

And you're continuing to make misleading statements like this one:

They had holdouts from almost every draft class every year.

Guess what, 40? The Cards have had more 1st round holdouts in the four years under Rod Graves (all four rookies) than in the previous four years (when at least David Boston and Thomas Jones made it into camp on time). The big reason for Wendell Bryant's holdout? Rod Graves!

It's mystifying that people can continue to defend this guy. Yes, it's great that the Arizona Cardinals are now functioning the way rest of the NFL was seven years ago, but when do you start asking Rod when we start winning football games? Or at least start assembling the talent where he thinks we're able to compete for a playoff spot?

 

[joeshmo]

So your opinion is that the Cards are still not doing business like most of the rest of the NFL even considering the player extensions and draft signings? I guess you are entitled to your opinion, but I sure don't agree with you. If you can't see how this organization has changed in the past 4 or 5 years, you have not been a fan of this organization for very long.

First I never said anything about extensions. Read it again.

"When the cards are up to par with the rest of the NFL in this regard"

So I dont know why you are trying to defend that point, or try to point to me not following this team very long.

Well I will tell you what I have followed this team for at least 4 years, and all 4 years have been draft holdouts. All 4 years have been Graves contract negotiations. And that is not even close to doing business the same as the rest of the NFL.

 

[NFL_FAN]

Great news. Maybe Rod will hire a stellar HC like Barry Switzer or maybe we can get Mike Tice...I know, how about Graves talking Steve Spurrier to come back into the NFL for another try!
Here's to 3 more years of losing. Hate to tell ya guys but with that news it really doesn't matter who we hire as HC, we're not gettin anywhere near the SB as long as Graves is GM

3 years? I think we are backing a team that won't make a dent in the playoffs until Bidwill sells or passes away, and maybe not even then with Michael and Jr in the lead. Maybe the NFL can step in and put a fire under their behinds.

A glorious tradition of losing passed down from generation to generation. We need a miracle. I will always support the Cards, just not agree with their decisions. God help us!!

 

[CtCardinals78]

I will give Graves credit for the things he's done well with controling out cap, and having a hand in the last three drafts, but in NO WAY does this guy deserve another three years. I was always giving the BB and MB the benefit of the doubt, but this is insane. I don't know why I have followed this team for the past 15 years.....

 

[40yearfan]

First I never said anything about extensions. Read it again.

"When the cards are up to par with the rest of the NFL in this regard"

So I dont know why you are trying to defend that point, or try to point to me not following this team very long.

Well I will tell you what I have followed this team for at least 4 years, and all 4 years have been draft holdouts. All 4 years have been Graves contract negotiations. And that is not even close to doing business the same as the rest of the NFL.

4 years? I guess that's why you think the Cards haven't changed the way they do business. Look back 10 or 15 years and you'll see a major difference. The current holdouts are minor compared to what they used to have and haven't really hurt the team. The Cards never used to offer the bells and whistles that other NFL teams regularly do, but they started doing so in the past 4 years. That's a big part of why they are now able to extend their players before their contracts are up. The players aren't just serving time here waiting for their contracts to expire so they can move on. Believe me JS, there is a big, big difference in the Cards in the past few years. They are actually starting to behave like an NFL team instead of a good old boys club with little or no cash.

 

[conraddobler]

4 years? I guess that's why you think the Cards haven't changed the way they do business. Look back 10 or 15 years and you'll see a major difference. The current holdouts are minor compared to what they used to have and haven't really hurt the team. The Cards never used to offer the bells and whistles that other NFL teams regularly do, but they started doing so in the past 4 years. That's a big part of why they are now able to extend their players before their contracts are up. The players aren't just serving time here waiting for their contracts to expire so they can move on. Believe me JS, there is a big, big difference in the Cards in the past few years. They are actually starting to behave like an NFL team instead of a good old boys club with little or no cash.

40 I totally agree with you, we have changed for the better, I've been a fan for 33 years, about 20 of which I paid enough attention to know how things have been done and it's light years better but that's like saying we raised our IQ from 50 to 100.

The problem is we are competing with people who have IQ's a lot higher than 100.

So you see things like the organizational failure to recognize last year was a watershed year for FA, that the iron was hot then, the powder wasn't going to be worth anything this year because no one was going to hit the market with the new agreement, all those things alligned last year and we sat on our powder after Edge.

Why did we get Edge..? I think it's been mentioned that was a MB thing, not Graves not DG but MB who wanted to make a splash, trouble is no one stood up and said, um ok but we need to spend every $ now, either we forgo Edge and go crazy with whatever we can get or get Edge and AND other players we already wanted to look at or we can forget it next year they'll be very few good FA to get.

No one said that 40 which is just the lingerings of the old style hangover, I see this situation more objectively than you are giving some credit for, the problem isn't how much we've changed, it's how far we had to go just to get even.

It dosen't matter one wit how nice or how much and element of change Graves is if he can't get all the way caught up to the rest of the runners in the race, just going faster isn't going to cut it when you were as far behind as we were, we'll never catch up at this rate.

 

[40yearfan]

You characterized Rod Graves as saying the exact opposite of what he actually said.

That's BS K9. I said no such thing. If you are going to accuse me of something, at least quote what I said instead of just grabbing at thin air to make a non-existant point.

How is that not making something up. You made the statement that our rookie holdouts have only been a week long. That's counter-factual. Didn't Matt Leinart's holdout extend into the first two preseason games? Are you daft?

No more so than you and I try to be civil when discussing things, something you have never learned to be.

And you're continuing to make misleading statements like this one:

They had holdouts from almost every draft class every year.

What, no facts to prove me wrong? We just have to take your word, right? How do you know what period of time I'm talking about? I was a fan of this team before you were even born.

Guess what, 40? The Cards have had more 1st round holdouts in the four years under Rod Graves (all four rookies) than in the previous four years (when at least David Boston and Thomas Jones made it into camp on time). The big reason for Wendell Bryant's holdout? Rod Graves!

It's mystifying that people can continue to defend this guy. Yes, it's great that the Arizona Cardinals are now functioning the way rest of the NFL was seven years ago, but when do you start asking Rod when we start winning football games? Or at least start assembling the talent where he thinks we're able to compete for a playoff spot?

I guess since it is all Grave's fault, we should have kept Green and got rid of Graves, right? Let's not let reality get in the way of a good rant.

 

[40yearfan]

40 I totally agree with you, we have changed for the better, I've been a fan for 33 years, about 20 of which I paid enough attention to know how things have been done and it's light years better but that's like saying we raised our IQ from 50 to 100.

The problem is we are competing with people who have IQ's a lot higher than 100.

So you see things like the organizational failure to recognize last year was a watershed year for FA, that the iron was hot then, the powder wasn't going to be worth anything this year because no one was going to hit the market with the new agreement, all those things alligned last year and we sat on our powder after Edge.

Why did we get Edge..? I think it's been mentioned that was a MB thing, not Graves not DG but MB who wanted to make a splash, trouble is no one stood up and said, um ok but we need to spend every $ now, either we forgo Edge and go crazy with whatever we can get or get Edge and AND other players we already wanted to look at or we can forget it next year they'll be very few good FA to get.

No one said that 40 which is just the lingerings of the old style hangover, I see this situation more objectively than you are giving some credit for, the problem isn't how much we've changed, it's how far we had to go just to get even.

It dosen't matter one wit how nice or how much and element of change Graves is if he can't get all the way caught up to the rest of the runners in the race, just going faster isn't going to cut it when you were as far behind as we were, we'll never catch up at this rate.

CD, the problem is, what is the alternative? The owners are going to give up control of this team (and they'd be stupid to do so from a business standpoint) and they aren't going to sell. If RG and MB don't become football savvy, we will continue to stay where we are. There is no other choice.

 

[conraddobler]

CD, the problem is, what is the alternative? The owners are going to give up control of this team (and they'd be stupid to do so from a business standpoint) and they aren't going to sell. If RG and MB don't become football savvy, we will continue to stay where we are. There is no other choice.

I am tired and don't have time to really detail the money this team has now but it's far from poor.

Just the change in attendance you can figure yourself from say 35k to 65k that's 30,000 time 50$ min average ticket price. So figure 1.5 million over 2 preseason and 8 regular season home games which gets us to 15 million more a year 40, that's not counting the suites and the naming rights money.

5 million of that goes to a GM who knows what they are doing and 10 million more spent on a great coaching staff and they still pocket the extra suite money and the naming rights.

So you tell me why they can't give it up for business reasons? No one is asking them to sell just spend the new money they have.

I am probably wildly overinflating the price of a great staff and GM but I just laid out how much they have extra now you tell me why they can't... it's not that they can't they won't and that's the problem, even faced with that much new money they won't because they wan't to run the team, I can understand that but at some point the fans have to vote by not going then they'll do what they have to, I blame the fans for accepting the lack of a GM, what's needed is a steady drumbeat they can't ignore, until that happens they'll do as they wish and lose.


I will say this, I'll get off Graves's case starting right now and see how he does, at least they did one thing I asked they hired a
GM albeit it's not what I was talking about it sounds as if they're turning Graves loose on the team, it's an important step I hope Graves has learned some things and maybe it's time he got his shot, we all hope it works so until after FA and the Draft I will remain silent on this.

 

[40yearfan]

I am tired and don't have time to really detail the money this team has now but it's far from poor.

Just the change in attendance you can figure yourself from say 35k to 65k that's 30,000 time 50$ min average ticket price. So figure 1.5 million over 2 preseason and 8 regular season home games which gets us to 15 million more a year 40, that's not counting the suites and the naming rights money.

5 million of that goes to a GM who knows what they are doing and 10 million more spent on a great coaching staff and they still pocket the extra suite money and the naming rights.

So you tell me why they can't give it up for business reasons? No one is asking them to sell just spend the new money they have.

I am probably wildly overinflating the price of a great staff and GM but I just laid out how much they have extra now you tell me why they can't... it's not that they can't they won't and that's the problem, even faced with that much new money they won't because they wan't to run the team, I can understand that but at some point the fans have to vote by not going then they'll do what they have to, I blame the fans for accepting the lack of a GM, what's needed is a steady drumbeat they can't ignore, until that happens they'll do as they wish and lose.

Oh ye of little faith. Who's to say they won't be spending more money on staff and HC? Giving $10 million to Green wasn't chump change. Why do you think they will tighten the purse strings now?

It's obvious the Cards want to win because they want the money a full stadium will give them. Truthfully, I believe M Bidwill is more driven to win to make his families name an icon rather than a laughing stock in the NFL than he is to making more money. That's the basic difference between Mr. B and his son. Mike Bidwill has been sucessful at everything he has ever attempted. He will find a way to be sucessful here also.

 

[conraddobler]

Oh ye of little faith. Who's to say they won't be spending more money on staff and HC? Giving $10 million to Green wasn't chump change. Why do you think they will tighten the purse strings now?

It's obvious the Cards want to win because they want the money a full stadium will give them. Truthfully, I believe M Bidwill is more driven to win to make his families name an icon rather than a laughing stock in the NFL than he is to making more money. That's the basic difference between Mr. B and his son. Mike Bidwill has been sucessful at everything he has ever attempted. He will find a way to be sucessful here also.

Yeah he will the question is when, it takes someone who knows what they are doing and I defended MB saying Green was a classic rookie mistake, look though 40 Daniel Snyder Mr. Warchest has been successful at everything he tried too, right up until he started wanting to run an NFL team.

He's on year what now?

He canned Marty and who's laughing now?

Meanwhile he's patient with Gibbs, amazing really but all can be avoided if you make the one right hire you should as soon as possible that's a GM.

GM GM GM..... GM GM GM.... I called for it and I got Rod, so I'll deal with it and call it progress.

 

[kerouac9]

I guess since it is all Grave's fault, we should have kept Green and got rid of Graves, right? Let's not let reality get in the way of a good rant.

No. I think that Green needed to go, too. I don't blame Graves for bad on-field decision-making. I do blame Graves for bad personnel decision-making.

But you're right. None of the decisions that Graves has made have been bad, and the Arizona Cardinals could not find a single person in the world to do the job better than he has.

 

[joeshmo]

4 years? I guess that's why you think the Cards haven't changed the way they do business. Look back 10 or 15 years and you'll see a major difference. The current holdouts are minor compared to what they used to have and haven't really hurt the team. The Cards never used to offer the bells and whistles that other NFL teams regularly do, but they started doing so in the past 4 years. That's a big part of why they are now able to extend their players before their contracts are up. The players aren't just serving time here waiting for their contracts to expire so they can move on. Believe me JS, there is a big, big difference in the Cards in the past few years. They are actually starting to behave like an NFL team instead of a good old boys club with little or no cash.

Bro you need to stop putting words into my mouth. I havent once said the cards havent changed the way they do business. I have already many times stated how the Cards have changed doing business. That is not what I am contending. You are argueing a point I havent even made and debating nothing.

The point has always been that although they have changed and are big changes, they still are not in line with the way all other NFL teams do business. Which just goes to show just how far away we were.

Case in point for all the bells and whistles they are doing for rookies it takes a week into training camp for agents to actually get them out of the Cards. As for rookie holdouts not hurting I think the NFL, Coaches, and players a like would beg to differ and thats a fact. But since we have had double digit losses all of those years you cant really point to a rookie holdout as being the main culprit. Rookies who hold out tend to have a higher ratio of getting injured, Fitz and Rolle both got injured their first year becuase they are always trying to catch up physically, mentally, and arent as football ready as other players. Would Matt have started earlier if he didnt have to wait till the 2nd preseason game to start learning the system?

Another case in point, we dont offer bells and whistles to UFA just yet like the rest of the league.

And you said it yourself, they are "starting to act like an NFL". Which means even you dont think we are their yet.

So in all we both think things have changed for the better but are not their just yet, which is what I have been saying this whole time yet you only want to see the negatives I point out for some reason instead of the whole picture.

 

[Zeno]

None of the decisions that Graves has made have been bad, and the Arizona Cardinals could not find a single person in the world to do the job better than he has.

Now you are getting it, sheesh what took you so long!?

 

[joeshmo]

Oh ye of little faith. Who's to say they won't be spending more money on staff and HC?

In head coach terms it isnt really chump change but lets not kid ourselves it is just only average. And the Assistants were down right chump change.

But they have slowly raised their assitant coach budget each of the 4 years as they brought in new coaches so we shall see just how much of a jump they do this year.

I guess I am just tired of these baby steps.