Reds-Rays-Diamondbacks pull three team trade

[JS22]

So basically they gave up Holmberg, a solid prospect, for a lesser prospect and one year of the "Heath Bell Experience."

Awesome.

Would have rather just seen DiPoto keep the job. He seemed to understand the value of a solid minor league system. I feel bad for him over in LA. I'd be willing to bet the two massive / HORRIBLE contracts weren't really his idea. But he'll take the fall.

 

[JS22]

I also like how he essentially said he's not trading Bradley, which should put everyone's minds at ease. Agree too, gonna have to give something of value to get something.

I look at it as the kiss of death. Similar to a GM or owner saying a coach will definitely be back next year. You may as well consider that coach gone.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Bell's contract was "not bad"... yet KT had to pair him with a prospect just to get rid of him... and you applaud him for that?

I can't imagine why that line of thinking needed clarification...

Yep. Bell's contract - at the time we signed him - wasn't bad. Can you support otherwise??

And yep. I applaud him for finding a very reasonable path to getting out of what eventually became, a poor contract. Had Bell even come close to his production from 2007-2011, this would of course me an entirely different discussion. As I have said time and again, for teams like the Dbacks, taking a chance on a guy like Bell is not at all uncommon and must be done from time to time as we don't have the $$ to bring in the top-tier talent.

I'm sure this line of thinking will require additional clarification for you... however, I'm out dude. I can't continue to try to make you see reason and logic through your fogged up and biased hate-KT goggles...

Hope you can still be a fan of the team... sad if you can't.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yep. Bell's contract - at the time we signed him - wasn't bad. Can you support otherwise??

And yep. I applaud him for finding a very reasonable path to getting out of what eventually became, a poor contract. Had Bell even come close to his production from 2007-2011, this would of course me an entirely different discussion. As I have said time and again, for teams like the Dbacks, taking a chance on a guy like Bell is not at all uncommon and must be done from time to time as we don't have the $$ to bring in the top-tier talent.

I'm sure this line of thinking will require additional clarification for you... however, I'm out dude. I can't continue to try to make you see reason and logic through your fogged up and biased hate-KT goggles...

Hope you can still be a fan of the team... sad if you can't.

Hang on... so, Bell coming off a season in 2012 where be blew a ton of games and had an ERA over 5 was WORTH his contract, and now a year later with a lower ERA by a full run and more blown saves he was so not worth his contract that he had to be given away with a prospect merely to get rid of him?

But yes, I am the one wearing biased goggles... somehow even KTs patently terrible moves are good in your world.

And I am a fan of the team, which is why it bothers me so much to see how this franchise that had so much going for it a few short years ago is being slowly trashed by gross incompetence.

 

[Brian]

Unless OAK is throwing in a SP then I say no way. Maybe for Pollock and some mid level prospects but leave Skaggs out. I've read OAK is looking to deal Brett Anderson but his medical history is very alarming. If Anderson is good to go then hopefully Towers is insisting he be included.

Oak doesn't need to throw in more, the Dbacks do.

AJ Pollock and some prospects for Cespedis? Someone on the Dbacks would be arrested for that. That's flat out theft and Billy Beane would be fired.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Oak doesn't need to throw in more, the Dbacks do.

AJ Pollock and some prospects for Cespedis? Someone on the Dbacks would be arrested for that. That's flat out theft and Billy Beane would be fired.

BINGO

 

[DWKB]

My perspective and information.

1) The PTBNL from TB is an option, but so is cash consideration in place of him. That most likely means using the term "prospect" is stretching it.

2) Bell's contract in a vacuum for ARZ wasn't bad, but it was certainly redundant. To pay a 7th inning guy $12M over two years is not something you'd call smart (as 82 stated at the time of acquisition actually) and dedicating a quarter of your total payroll to the BP isn't the best use of financial resources. IMO the type of risks a GM on a budget should be taking is with young cheap talent, not old pricey talent. Especially not for a damn RP who is going to see around 60 out of almost 1500 Innings played in a season. When your margin of error is so slim the last thing you need is to end up with salary dead weight on your under-performing players because you end up having to sweeten the deal to get rid of them.

3) BTW, does anyone remember that we non-tendered Matt Lindstrom before the Bell trade and he put up a 3.12 ERA in 60+ IP for $2.3M last year in CHW. If you want to analyze the alternative move KT had as an option.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Yep. Bell's contract - at the time we signed him - wasn't bad. Can you support otherwise??

And yep. I applaud him for finding a very reasonable path to getting out of what eventually became, a poor contract. Had Bell even come close to his production from 2007-2011, this would of course me an entirely different discussion. As I have said time and again, for teams like the Dbacks, taking a chance on a guy like Bell is not at all uncommon and must be done from time to time as we don't have the $$ to bring in the top-tier talent.

I'm sure this line of thinking will require additional clarification for you... however, I'm out dude. I can't continue to try to make you see reason and logic through your fogged up and biased hate-KT goggles...

Hope you can still be a fan of the team... sad if you can't.

They already essentially gave the Young money to Heath Bell. Foolish doesn't begin to describe it.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2730187&postcount=5

Heath Bell was a disaster before he even threw a pitch for the Diamondbacks. Hindsight not required. I wasn't exactly alone in saying that either.

In order to complete the deal, the Marlins agreed to absorb $8 million of the $21 million still owed to Bell over the remainder of his contract.

Given how the disgruntled Bell was a disaster on the mound and a pariah figure within his own clubhouse, the Marlins were more than happy to pay some of his salary just to get rid of him.

The burly 35-year-old pitcher was not only one of the biggest busts the franchise has known, but he also was the biggest failure on an underperforming team that was full of them.

All told, Bell went 4-5 with a 5.09 ERA and converted only 19 of his 27 save chances.

Unhappy with his diminished role, the bitter Bell was openly critical of pitching coach Randy St. Claire, the training staff, Marlins catchers, sportswriters, and even the Showtime production crew that filmed The Franchise. Bell said he was portrayed too negatively during the reality series.

For the Marlins, the final straw might have come the final week of the season when Bell, in a live radio interview, said it was “hard to respect” manager Ozzie Guillen.

The following day, Bell’s teammates, in a show of support for Guillen, turned on the manager’s weekly radio show inside the clubhouse, raised the volume, and made Bell listen to Guillen state that he no longer respected Bell “as a person.”

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/21/3059186/miami-marlins-trade-closer-heath.html

But this is the part that is hard to figure: Bell has enough questions surrounding him and was in such a bad situation in Miami, why were the Diamondbacks willing to absorb $13 million in salary? If Bell were a free agent right now, what kind of a deal would he be looking at this off-season? Hard to say, but I’d guess less than $13 million guaranteed. If the Marlins were so desperate to rid themselves of him — which they must have been, given the circumstances — why not make them pay a heftier price?

http://www.azcentral.com/insiders/n...ningtons-defense-trade-histories-other-stuff/


Just about everybody other than Kevin Towers knew that Heath Bell was a trainwreck.

 

[DWKB]

PTBNL in this trade was RF Todd Glaesmann, who the DBacks just placed on voluntarily retired list.

Awesome....

 

[bankybruce]

To be clear, Glaesmann became a D-Back back on December 13th and decided to retire yesterday and it was unexpected. I am only clarifying since someone is using the Fox News method to post information, which is funny considering how much they hate that. I do wish I had those hindsight glasses that you would have needed to see this one coming.

Stacy Long @AStacyLong
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When I talked to Glaesmann a month ago, he was excited about going to Diamondbacks.

Entering 2013, Glaesmann ranked 18th on our writers' poll top 30 prospect list after a breakout 2012 season. Between Class A Bowling Green and Class A-Advanced Charlotte, he batted .285/336/.493 with 21 home runs, a 5.6% walk rate and 23.0% strikeout rate. He spent most of his team with Bowling Green in center field and most of it in right field with Charlotte.

 

[Phrazbit]

He was not good last year in AA.

But fear not, it was probably addition by subtraction. Quitters lack grit. I applaud KT for the way all this worked out.

I dont think this particular move required hindsight or foresight. A 5 year minor league career where he hit .252. He ended up being the PTBNL after going untouched in the rule 5 draft.

 

[DWKB]

To be clear, Glaesmann became a D-Back back on December 13th and decided to retire yesterday and it was unexpected. I am only clarifying since someone is using the Fox News method to post information, which is funny considering how much they hate that. I do wish I had those hindsight glasses that you would have needed to see this one coming.

WTF?

Lay off the crack and the paranoia goes away.

 

[bankybruce]

WTF?

Lay off the crack and the paranoia goes away.

Yup, none of your D-Backs posts are not underhanded slaps at the organization. Not a single one of them.

Or does it bother you that you were just compared the Fox News.

 

[DWKB]

Yup, none of your D-Backs posts are not underhanded slaps at the organization. Not a single one of them.

Or does it bother you that you were just compared the Fox News.

Kevin Towers /= the organization. To confuse the two is a problem IMO. I do make comments about the ****ty moves KT makes and this trade was one of them.

Regardless of how it happened, KT claimed the PTBNL was the key piece in this trade and he's not with the org anymore. Someone failed, either KT or our scouting dept, for which he is responsible.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

I admittedly was a fan of this deal when Glassmann was announced as the PTBNL. I also didn't suspect he was going to quit the damn sport before Spring Training. Rough.

 

[Phrazbit]

I dont expect him to be perfect, but so far he has been absolutely abysmal. What positives we have on the roster are mostly guys he inherited, his moves have ballooned the payroll, diminished our farm system and yielded no tangible results. I cant applaud him for freeing up 5.5 million when he had to blow yet another asset just to wipe out one of his many expensive mistakes.

And I'm not surprised KT was on the radio telling everyone what he wants. He seems to love negotiating with all his cards on the table. Hearing him crow for a power hitting corner outfielder is especially sad. He had one, dumped him, blew a ton of money on Ross and Kubel, both moves were horrible, now he is looking to either blow more money signing one or waste more prospects trading for one. And knowing KT he will end up having to dump that new outfielder in a year because he was either too expensive or just flat out awful.

I really dont get how some of you either cant see or chose to ignore KT's cycle of idiocy.

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh

This post was viewed by a few as a bout of "KT biased hysteria".

 

[gmabel830]

Bell designated for assignment in Tampa.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

 

[Dback Jon]

And?? I couldn't care any less about how Jockety or Friedman feel about Holmberg. Let's revisit Mr. Holmberg around July/August of 2014...

2014 LOU INT AAA 1 6 4.74 16 81.2
2014 CIN NL MLB 0 0 16.87 1 1 2.2


As you wish... (Thanks Diamondback Jay)

 

[Diamondback Jay]

2014 LOU INT AAA 1 6 4.74 16 81.2
2014 CIN NL MLB 0 0 16.87 1 1 2.2


As you wish... (Thanks Diamondback Jay)

 

[82CardsGrad]

2014 LOU INT AAA 1 6 4.74 16 81.2
2014 CIN NL MLB 0 0 16.87 1 1 2.2


As you wish... (Thanks Diamondback Jay)

 

[82CardsGrad]

Not sure why I do this... but...

Never said getting Bell was a "good" move. I said his contract wasn't a "bad/sucky" contract.
But yes - taking responsibility and cleaning up your poop/mistake is a good thing.

As for KT himself - and DWKB would support this - I have always maintained that 2014 is the year, for me, where I will place him squarely under the microscope. From drafts, to trades and free agent signings, I have always felt and said that his 3rd season as our GM would be the time where we can most fairly judge his moves and their impact on the franchise.
So, I am not a KT apologist. I am a realist who understands the reality of working with a constricted payroll.
Doesn't mean he can't be succesful. Just means it's more difficult and that more often than other higher payroll teams, you need to take chances.
Anyway... 2014 is the season where I will be much more critical of KT if/when I feel it's warranted.

Just want to be sure my views on KT, dating back to last year, are crystal clear to everyone...

 

[Phrazbit]

Just want to be sure my views on KT, dating back to last year, are crystal clear to everyone...

But you contradicted that post with several others where you applauded questionable moves loudly and accused those who questioned those moves of bias and hate.

The post I quoted at the top of this page, which ended up being absolutely prophetic, you called a bunch of "KT biased hysteria".

You also, in this thread, defended both the trade for Bell AND the trade to dump Bell as being good moves by KT... to somehow claim you were NOT a KT apologist flies in the face of about 90% of your posts on the matter.

I really don't want to rehash all these awful moves, because its pointless and KT is patently terrible at his job. But with how much grief you dished out to those who doubted him, a post like this seems really disingenuous.

 

[gmabel830]

And Heath Bell is retiring.