Rapoport: Cardinals trading out of #3 very very likely

Stout

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I don't know much of nothing about our new GM but for some reason I do believe he knows what he's doing, has a plan & is following it with input from Sears & Gannon. I feel like they know how to replace the players they're not resigning with FA's & draft picks, more so draft picks than FA's. I'm gonna have faith that they will turn this team around until proven they can't.
Replacing good young draft picks coming off their rookie deals with FAs or more draft picks is a loser strategy.
 

BritCard

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Replacing good young draft picks coming off their rookie deals with FAs or more draft picks is a loser strategy.

There's barely a team in the league not letting at least one good starter walk that they drafted. All teams do it for a number of reasons. Including some of the best in the league.
 

Stout

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There's barely a team in the league not letting at least one good starter walk that they drafted. All teams do it for a number of reasons. Including some of the best in the league.
Dude, you're still shilling. It's okay to do when you have a good team, a solid roster, and want to replenish the ranks. You absolutely do not do it when you have almost no talent on the roster and need to use your draft capital to develop players at other spots. It is bad business. It is bad for the Cardinals. We all know it. I mean, if your take was "yeah, this sucks, but Keim put us here and whaddya gonna do?" I'd disagree but give that a pass, but the kid got less than you expected and you're still company line-ing it. C'mon man.
 

Fitz4Ever

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I still believe Colts will call the Cards bluff & not swap picks! It’s the Cardinal way lol

What if the Texans cause complete chaos & sign Lamar Jackson & the Ravens don’t match, thus forfeiting their 2 first rounders? Chaossss
Would the Texans HAVE to include the #2 pick...or does the tag just call for 2 first rounders? Most teams would only ever have picks in consecutive years. Could the Texans trade #12 and a 2024 1st round pick for Jackson? If so, it would be the smartest move they could make.
 

BritCard

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Dude, you're still shilling. It's okay to do when you have a good team, a solid roster, and want to replenish the ranks. You absolutely do not do it when you have almost no talent on the roster and need to use your draft capital to develop players at other spots. It is bad business. It is bad for the Cardinals. We all know it. I mean, if your take was "yeah, this sucks, but Keim put us here and whaddya gonna do?" I'd disagree but give that a pass, but the kid got less than you expected and you're still company line-ing it. C'mon man.

Ok, so it's not always a "loser strategy" then?

What is also bad business is over paying for average talent that might one day be good. And while Zach has been a relatively bright spark in an otherwise gloomy roster I don't believe he's worth that money. Even more so to a team that is obviously rebuilding.

Where are you getting "less than expected" from? We all pretty much agreed he was worth about $13m but that it was possible some chump would pay $15m+ because teams often massively overpay in FA. PLenty of people have said they think the Broncos overpaid.

What's the "We all know it" stuff? This Allen thread is stocked with people that don't think he was worth it. There are 3 or 4 pushing that it wasn't.
 

kerouac9

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There's barely a team in the league not letting at least one good starter walk that they drafted. All teams do it for a number of reasons. Including some of the best in the league.
There are good reasons to let players walk in free agency:

1) you don’t consider the player part of your core
2) you want to open up opportunity for a player you’ve developed behind them
3) they don’t play a premium position
4) they’re entering a third contract they’re unlikely to outperform

The decision to let Allen leave fits none of those.
 

kerouac9

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Would the Texans HAVE to include the #2 pick...or does the tag just call for 2 first rounders? Most teams would only ever have picks in consecutive years. Could the Texans trade #12 and a 2024 1st round pick for Jackson? If so, it would be the smartest move they could make.
They could negotiate it with Baltimore if they agree to terms with Jackson.
 

QuebecCard

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There are good reasons to let players walk in free agency:

1) you don’t consider the player part of your core
2) you want to open up opportunity for a player you’ve developed behind them
3) they don’t play a premium position
4) they’re entering a third contract they’re unlikely to outperform

The decision to let Allen leave fits none of those.

He also doesn't fit the profile of paying more than the Denver offer to retain.
 

Fitz4Ever

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They aren’t giving up all that
I dont think its that crazy. Ryan Kelley has a large cap hit and they could release him if hes not included in a trade.
Kenny Moore is going to want a new deal, which may or may be part of the Colts plans.

To me the sticking point would be including 2024 picks...if I was the Colts I would not want to do that because they might be a bottom 5 team again in 23.

If we could pick up a 2nd and 2 starters for moving down 1 spot, its kind of a no brainer.
 

Stout

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Ok, so it's not always a "loser strategy" then?

What is also bad business is over paying for average talent that might one day be good. And while Zach has been a relatively bright spark in an otherwise gloomy roster I don't believe he's worth that money. Even more so to a team that is obviously rebuilding.

Where are you getting "less than expected" from? We all pretty much agreed he was worth about $13m but that it was possible some chump would pay $15m+ because teams often massively overpay in FA. PLenty of people have said they think the Broncos overpaid.

What's the "We all know it" stuff? This Allen thread is stocked with people that don't think he was worth it. There are 3 or 4 pushing that it wasn't.
I dunno, this "we all know" stuff seems pretty prevalent in your posts, Brit.
 

Krangodnzr

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There are good reasons to let players walk in free agency:

1) you don’t consider the player part of your core
2) you want to open up opportunity for a player you’ve developed behind them
3) they don’t play a premium position
4) they’re entering a third contract they’re unlikely to outperform

The decision to let Allen leave fits none of those.
Another reason is that player is an excess player.

I guess that also fits under #1.

An excess player would be that 3rd boundary corner who had a really good year but you already have two good boundary corners and can't pay a third.

Allen was literally the only talented DL left on the roster. You overpay or pay market rate for players like him.
 

Stout

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Me assuming I know what everyone else thinks? Find me one.
Um, from the post I quoted LOL

Ok, so it's not always a "loser strategy" then?

What is also bad business is over paying for average talent that might one day be good. And while Zach has been a relatively bright spark in an otherwise gloomy roster I don't believe he's worth that money. Even more so to a team that is obviously rebuilding.

Where are you getting "less than expected" from? We all pretty much agreed he was worth about $13m but that it was possible some chump would pay $15m+ because teams often massively overpay in FA. PLenty of people have said they think the Broncos overpaid.

What's the "We all know it" stuff? This Allen thread is stocked with people that don't think he was worth it. There are 3 or 4 pushing that it wasn't.
Who's the "we" you are speaking for here? Because it isn't me or I dare say most of the posters on this board. But you can sure say "we" have been thinking!
 

ASUCHRIS

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We all pretty much agreed he was worth about $13m but that it was possible some chump would pay $15m+ because teams often massively overpay in FA. PLenty of people have said they think the Broncos overpaid.
I LOVE how 15M is a gigantic overpay on a guy worth 13M. So we would have been geniuses to extend him at 13M, and idiots at 15M?

You are good for entertainment if nothing else.
 

BritCard

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Um, from the post I quoted LOL


Who's the "we" you are speaking for here? Because it isn't me or I dare say most of the posters on this board. But you can sure say "we" have been thinking!

Yeah that's not me assuming mate. That's me READING what people posted and regurgitating it.

You said "We all know it" despite dozens of posts in this thread already saying the opposite.
 

dreamcastrocks

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It's going to be exciting when the Cardinals freak out and trade back to 7 for a single 3rd round pick in a below average draft.
Except that this draft is considered to be above average for the first 100 picks.

Besides, the Cards aren't going to move from 3 to 7 for a 3rd round pick. That is fantasyland.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Replacing good young draft picks coming off their rookie deals with FAs or more draft picks is a loser strategy.
Unless you are lucky and/or the Rams.
 

Stout

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Except that this draft is considered to be above average for the first 100 picks.

Besides, the Cards aren't going to move from 3 to 7 for a 3rd round pick. That is fantasyland.
Yeah, no one would trade a top-ten pick for two picks in the late teens either. Oh, and trade BACK in the 2nd round as part of the deal. And, yeah, toss in a 4th rounder for good measure. I mean, we'd be fools to root for a team that stupid, right?

Sorry, the sarcasm is strong in this post. I keed, I keed!
 

dreamcastrocks

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Yeah, no one would trade a top-ten pick for two picks in the late teens either. Oh, and trade BACK in the 2nd round as part of the deal. And, yeah, toss in a 4th rounder for good measure. I mean, we'd be fools to root for a team that stupid, right?

Sorry, the sarcasm is strong in this post. I keed, I keed!
Yeah, I'm just going to let that one go.
 

Totally_Red

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Except that this draft is considered to be above average for the first 100 picks.

Besides, the Cards aren't going to move from 3 to 7 for a 3rd round pick. That is fantasyland.
It will take next year's one to forego drafting Will Anderson. Vegas may pay it if they really like the third QB.
 

Krangodnzr

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Except that this draft is considered to be above average for the first 100 picks.
No it's not though. This draft has a below average amount of 1st round grades. That means the last ten picks of 1st round are really just 2nd rounders.
Besides, the Cards aren't going to move from 3 to 7 for a 3rd round pick. That is fantasyland.
I'm being facetious. I just don't have high expectations after last year and after the early offseason news.
 

dreamcastrocks

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No it's not though. This draft has a below average amount of 1st round grades. That means the last ten picks of 1st round are really just 2nd rounders.

I'm being facetious. I just don't have high expectations after last year and after the early offseason news.
Except that wasn't the gauge you were using. You are talking about trading down, for only a 3rd round pick. We wouldn't be getting an extra first rounder in your scenario, so that seems moot. This draft is above average in Day 1 and 2 picks, which is what we would have gotten in your scenario, even if is a outside of reality IMO.

My expectations aren't great either, but here we are.
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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Replacing good young draft picks coming off their rookie deals with FAs or more draft picks is a loser strategy.
We had a loser GM making those draft picks. That being said, Allen is a good player & turned out to be a good pick but he has been injury prone & 15 million is a high price for him imo. Like I've been saying, I'm sure they feel confident in their plan to replace everyone they don't resign. I'm gonna trust them to turn this team around until they prove otherwise.
 
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