Rapoport: Cardinals trading out of #3 very very likely

Chopper0080

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I’m convinced this new regime can do no right with many of you.
Two weeks in. A house that’s been all but burned to the ground.
Can we just relax and let these guys clear the rubble?
This is the myth. The only "rubble" they have cleared is Hudson, Golden, and Anderson. They started FA in the top 10 in cap dollars. The only reasons they aren't signing impact players is because they either miscalculated the market or didn't want the players available.
 

Stout

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I’m convinced this new regime can do no right with many of you.
Two weeks in. A house that’s been all but burned to the ground.
Can we just relax and let these guys clear the rubble?
Sure, they finished burning the house down, but then they didn't rip out the foundation, and then they sowed the ground with salt for some reason.
 

BritCard

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This is the myth. The only "rubble" they have cleared is Hudson, Golden, and Anderson. They started FA in the top 10 in cap dollars. The only reasons they aren't signing impact players is because they either miscalculated the market or didn't want the players available.

People talk about free agency like it's picking Apples. You just choose who you want and go pluck them.

There's 2 sides to free agency and the players side sees a QB out with an ACL injury and a losing season coming up. Almost every destination in the league is more attractive right now which is why many of the signings have coaching links and those guys have joined because of those relationships.

The only way the Cards could attract some of these guys is to overpay. And we aren't in a position to overpay.

This is just a fact of life right now. Players that have multiple options aren't choosing the Cards. If Kyler was healthy it would be very different.
 

Chopper0080

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The problem for me is it shouldn’t be a Cam vs Zach, It should be a Cam plus Zach. addition not subtraction.
Agree on this. The Zach Allen deal frustrates me because it creates a huge starting hole that currently only have two second year players at a critical position. Even the 3 year deal isn't prohibitive if you are looking to build through the draft. 1000% would be better off with Allen, Thomas, Sanders and then potentially a draft pick. Instead the team with "build the lines" as it's strategy has this as it's defensive front

Cam Thomas
Myjai Sanders
Victor Dimukeje
Jesse Luketa
Dennis Gardeck
Kevin Strong
Julien Davenport
Leki Fotu
Rashad Lawrence
Manny Jones
Jonathan Ledbetter (though I don't see him on the team roster)

The draft and leftover FAs aren't fixing that. The unintended impact is it will be very difficult to evaluate the LBs with this group in front of them.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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People talk about free agency like it's picking Apples. You just choose who you want and go pluck them.

There's 2 sides to free agency and the players side sees a QB out with an ACL injury and a losing season coming up. Almost every destination in the league is more attractive right now which is why many of the signings have coaching links and those guys have joined because of those relationships.

The only way the Cards could attract some of these guys is to overpay. And we aren't in a position to overpay.

This is just a fact of life right now. Players that have multiple options aren't choosing the Cards. If Kyler was healthy it would be very different.
You’re giving the cardinals a pass because they’re unattractive? It’s literally their job to convince players to come play here.
 

Stout

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Will Anderson. Eventually.
But the overall strategy being proposed by a lot of folks means trading back to plug the holes made by not keeping Allen and Murphy. We can't have everything, and letting them walk created gaping holes. I still say we stay put and draft him, or trade down one slot and do the same. Still leaves us with gaping holes, but the FO has put us in that position and it simply won't be easy to dig out of it.
 

MadCardDisease

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But the overall strategy being proposed by a lot of folks means trading back to plug the holes made by not keeping Allen and Murphy. We can't have everything, and letting them walk created gaping holes. I still say we stay put and draft him, or trade down one slot and do the same. Still leaves us with gaping holes, but the FO has put us in that position and it simply won't be easy to dig out of it.
Yeah I wouldn't have made Allen the highest paid defensive player on the team. I think Allen is a good player but not great like he got paid. I would have kept Murphy at what the Vikings paid. Not sure why Murphy didn't get pursued harder by the Cardinals or other CB needy teams. That one still has me scratching my head.

I still believe that the Cards move back one spot with the Colts and add a couple of picks like in my Mock that I posted. Then they still get Anderson and can add a couple extra picks.
 

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Yeah I wouldn't have made Allen the highest paid defensive player on the team. I think Allen is a good player but not great like he got paid. I would have kept Murphy at what the Vikings paid. Not sure why Murphy didn't get pursued harder by the Cardinals or other CB needy teams. That one still has me scratching my head.

I still believe that the Cards move back one spot with the Colts and add a couple of picks like in my Mock that I posted. Then they still get Anderson and can add a couple extra picks.
The issue that I think we all have to understand is that we don't really know if the Cardinals pursued Allen/Murphy. We don't know how much they offered. We don't know if Allen/Murphy wanted to come back.

All of the handwringing might be really silly if both players didn't want to come back in the first place. Granted, that begs the question of WHY the didn't want to.
 

ASUCHRIS

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Granted, that begs the question of WHY the didn't want to.
That should elicit some serious hand wringing. We know the obvious issues, laid so clear by the player surveys, but even during Hard Knocks it just seemed nobody wanted to be here. This further exodus of young talent/Hudson/Watt etc paints a picture of a very sorry franchise indeed. One that people can't get away from fast enough.
 

kerouac9

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Yeah I wouldn't have made Allen the highest paid defensive player on the team. I think Allen is a good player but not great like he got paid. I would have kept Murphy at what the Vikings paid. Not sure why Murphy didn't get pursued harder by the Cardinals or other CB needy teams. That one still has me scratching my head.

I still believe that the Cards move back one spot with the Colts and add a couple of picks like in my Mock that I posted. Then they still get Anderson and can add a couple extra picks.
We could have signed him to the same contract as Denver and he wouldn't be the highest-paid defensive player. Budda would've had the highest cap number this year and next, with Jalen Thompson close behind.

The real problem is that we have the most money invested on the defense at safety and off-ball linebacker, which are where most other teams save a ton of money. It's a bad policy to start building the lines by letting your best defensive lineman leave for a reasonable contract.
 

Goldfield

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Allen is so massively overblown by some in the fan base.

11 career sacks. Never more than 5.5 in a season. Below average vs the run. Just above average pass rusher.

But you know, he's young and "ascending" so give him all the money. Anyone can ascending from the literal nothing he had through his first 2 years.

He's worth $11-12m. $15.25m is a massive gamble.
I hope your right. But we don’t have enough talent on the roster to lose solid players like that.
 

MadCardDisease

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We could have signed him to the same contract as Denver and he wouldn't be the highest-paid defensive player. Budda would've had the highest cap number this year and next, with Jalen Thompson close behind.

Allen's new contract averages $15M per year. Which would have been the highest on the Cardinals defense. Budda's averages at $14.75M

It's a bad policy to start building the lines by letting your best defensive lineman leave for a reasonable contract.

The Cards best defensive lineman retired, he didn't leave for a reasonable contract. He now spends his time at Taylor Swift concerts.
 

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That should elicit some serious hand wringing. We know the obvious issues, laid so clear by the player surveys, but even during Hard Knocks it just seemed nobody wanted to be here. This further exodus of young talent/Hudson/Watt etc paints a picture of a very sorry franchise indeed. One that people can't get away from fast enough.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

This is a crap football team run by some of the worst owners in pro sports.
 

Krangodnzr

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He is not big. He is not fast. He doesn't make plays. There is a reason Kenny Moore played over him in Indy and they let him go. Ya-Sin is a zone only CB who is less versatile than Murphy. Not sure what else you want.
I just watched a few highlight videos of Ya-Sin and read a Raiders fan site column on him, and I noticed a peculiar error in this post.

Ya-Sin is used A LOT in press coverage, not zone. Just Google his name, go to YouTube and watch. He's not a zone guy at all!
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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The issue that I think we all have to understand is that we don't really know if the Cardinals pursued Allen/Murphy. We don't know how much they offered. We don't know if Allen/Murphy wanted to come back.

All of the handwringing might be really silly if both players didn't want to come back in the first place. Granted, that begs the question of WHY the didn't want to.
Correct. The organization either didn’t want to retain them or failed to retain them. It’s that simple.
 

BritCard

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I just watched a few highlight videos of Ya-Sin and read a Raiders fan site column on him, and I noticed a peculiar error in this post.

Ya-Sin is used A LOT in press coverage, not zone. Just Google his name, go to YouTube and watch. He's not a zone guy at all!

He also says he's not big and not fast.

He's faster than Murphy in recorded 40 times and an inch taller than Murphy.
 

Chopper0080

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I just watched a few highlight videos of Ya-Sin and read a Raiders fan site column on him, and I noticed a peculiar error in this post.

Ya-Sin is used A LOT in press coverage, not zone. Just Google his name, go to YouTube and watch. He's not a zone guy at all!
Used as and best as are two different things, just saying.

Also, and just from an informative stand point, press coverage does not translate to zone coverage. There are press-zone coverages just as there are press-man. Press and off are positioning specifications for either zone or man.
 

Krangodnzr

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Used as and best as are two different things, just saying.

Also, and just from an informative stand point, press coverage does not translate to zone coverage. There are press-zone coverages just as there are press-man. Press and off are positioning specifications for either zone or man.
No I understand the nuance here. Watch his tape and you will see he is a press man guy, almost entirely.

So he might not be a fit for a Gannon defense that plays a lot of zone.
 

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