OT: Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[602 Native]

I'll take "Red" Skelton over him

Id bet money you bought a Max Hall jersey

 

[TJ]

I don’t know why people are mad about Kyler hes clearly better than John Navarre guys

I just need my QBoF to be remarkably better than Jake Plummer.

 

[Mr X]

Has Kyler been the better overall pick than Bosa? I still don't think he has sacked K1

 

[kerouac9]

Has Kyler been the better overall pick than Bosa? I still don't think he has sacked K1

No. Bosa has been the much better player it not even close.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

- Lamar
- Allen
- Herbert
- Mahomes, even though he has been way below his own high standard the past few years.
- Hurts, even though he’s polarizing to a lot people.
- Baker, I’d throw him in there, too.

So, 6 maybe.

Lamar
Allen
Mahomes
Herbert
Stafford
Hurts

No joe burrow? Absent injuries I think he makes a difference.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

lmao I’m so confused you keep saying this. How was this going to happen when Fred Warner was trailing Marv?

I don’t know how close he was, but MHJ was (a) at a full stop; (b) facing the wrong direction; and (c) hopped (for some unknown reason). Warner was running full speed towards him at that point. I doubt MHJ scores. He definitely would’ve gotten some more yards, but how many? Who knows?

 

[DVontel]

No joe burrow? Absent injuries I think he makes a difference.

Not his fault & out of his control, but his atrocious defenses & front office prevents him.

 

[kerouac9]

No joe burrow? Absent injuries I think he makes a difference.

I was assuming guys who are playing.

 

[unseenaz]

No joe burrow? Absent injuries I think he makes a difference.

Joe Burrow is on the Carson Palmer path.. put up good enough numbers when healthy, but limited by the team disfunction. Maybe he'll continue his Palmer trajectory and bring his talents out to the desert.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

Joe Burrow is on the Carson Palmer path.. put up good enough numbers when healthy, but limited by the team disfunction. Maybe he'll continue his Palmer trajectory and bring his talents out to the desert.

why wait - let's do whatever it takes same way the rams did

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don’t know how close he was, but MHJ was (a) at a full stop; (b) facing the wrong direction; and (c) hopped (for some unknown reason). Warner was running full speed towards him at that point. I doubt MHJ scores. He definitely would’ve gotten some more yards, but how many? Who knows?

Seeing at how inept Harrison was just on that play, even if he catches it, he just as likely could have tripped over a blade of grass and only gotten another 5 yards.

In reality, He probably doesn’t score, but he probably gets another fifteen or twenty yards there.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The 30's were terrible though, and the 40's. (and the 50's!)

Full list.

Span	Wins	Losses	Ties	Games	Win%
1920 - 1925	41​	18​	6​	65​	67.7​
1921 - 1926	40​	22​	5​	67​	63.4​
1922 - 1927	40​	26​	4​	70​	60​
1963 - 1968	46​	33​	5​	84​	57.7​
1946 - 1951	40​	30​	1​	71​	57​
2012 - 2017	54​	41​	1​	96​	56.8​
2011 - 2016	54​	41​	1​	96​	56.8​
1973 - 1978	48​	37​	1​	86​	56.4​
1972 - 1977	46​	36​	2​	84​	56​
1945 - 1950	38​	30​	1​	69​	55.8​
1974 - 1979	49​	39​	0​	88​	55.7​
2013 - 2018	52​	43​	1​	96​	54.7​
2010 - 2015	52​	44​	0​	96​	54.2​
1923 - 1928	33​	28​	4​	65​	53.8​
1947 - 1952	38​	33​	1​	72​	53.5​
1971 - 1976	43​	38​	3​	84​	53​
1964 - 1969	41​	37​	6​	84​	52.4​
1961 - 1966	42​	38​	4​	84​	52.4​
1962 - 1967	41​	38​	5​	84​	51.8​
1960 - 1965	40​	38​	4​	82​	51.2​
1970 - 1975	41​	39​	4​	84​	51.2​
2009 - 2014	49​	47​	0​	96​	51​
1924 - 1929	31​	30​	5​	66​	50.8​
1965 - 1970	40​	39​	5​	84​	50.6​
1966 - 1971	39​	39​	6​	84​	50​
1944 - 1949	33​	33​	1​	67​	50​
2014 - 2019	47​	47​	2​	96​	50​
1925 - 1930	31​	32​	6​	69​	49.3​
2008 - 2013	47​	49​	0​	96​	49​
1975 - 1980	44​	46​	0​	90​	48.9​
1959 - 1964	37​	39​	4​	80​	48.8​
2006 - 2011	45​	51​	0​	96​	46.9​
2015 - 2020	44​	50​	2​	96​	46.9​
2007 - 2012	45​	51​	0​	96​	46.9​
1967 - 1972	35​	43​	6​	84​	45.2​
2004 - 2009	43​	53​	0​	96​	44.8​
1980 - 1985	39​	49​	1​	89​	44.4​
1979 - 1984	39​	49​	1​	89​	44.4​
1982 - 1987	38​	48​	2​	88​	44.3​
2016 - 2021	42​	53​	2​	97​	44.3​
2005 - 2010	42​	54​	0​	96​	43.8​
1981 - 1986	38​	49​	2​	89​	43.8​
1976 - 1981	40​	52​	0​	92​	43.5​
1969 - 1974	34​	45​	5​	84​	43.5​
1983 - 1988	40​	53​	2​	95​	43.2​
1948 - 1953	30​	40​	2​	72​	43.1​
1926 - 1931	25​	34​	5​	64​	43​
1968 - 1973	33​	45​	6​	84​	42.9​
2020 - 2025	37​	50​	0​	87​	42.5​
1930 - 1935	24​	35​	7​	66​	41.7​
1943 - 1948	27​	38​	0​	65​	41.5​
1978 - 1983	36​	52​	1​	89​	41​
1993 - 1998	39​	57​	0​	96​	40.6​
2019 - 2024	40​	59​	1​	100​	40.5​
1958 - 1963	30​	45​	3​	78​	40.4​
1927 - 1932	22​	34​	6​	62​	40.3​
1929 - 1934	24​	37​	6​	67​	40.3​
2017 - 2022	39​	58​	1​	98​	40.3​
1977 - 1982	35​	52​	0​	87​	40.2​
1994 - 1999	38​	58​	0​	96​	39.6​
1984 - 1989	37​	57​	1​	95​	39.5​
1931 - 1936	22​	37​	6​	65​	38.5​
2003 - 2008	37​	59​	0​	96​	38.5​
1932 - 1937	22​	38​	7​	67​	38.1​
1956 - 1961	27​	45​	2​	74​	37.8​
1996 - 2001	36​	60​	0​	96​	37.5​
1928 - 1933	20​	36​	6​	62​	37.1​
1933 - 1938	22​	41​	5​	68​	36​
2018 - 2023	35​	63​	1​	99​	35.9​
1955 - 1960	24​	45​	3​	72​	35.4​
1997 - 2002	34​	62​	0​	96​	35.4​
1998 - 2003	34​	62​	0​	96​	35.4​
1991 - 1996	34​	62​	0​	96​	35.4​
1992 - 1997	34​	62​	0​	96​	35.4​
1985 - 1990	33​	61​	1​	95​	35.3​
1934 - 1939	22​	42​	4​	68​	35.3​
2002 - 2007	33​	63​	0​	96​	34.4​
1995 - 2000	33​	63​	0​	96​	34.4​
1989 - 1994	33​	63​	0​	96​	34.4​
1986 - 1991	32​	62​	1​	95​	34.2​
1987 - 1992	32​	63​	0​	95​	33.7​
1957 - 1962	24​	49​	3​	76​	33.6​
1990 - 1995	32​	64​	0​	96​	33.3​
2001 - 2006	32​	64​	0​	96​	33.3​
1988 - 1993	32​	64​	0​	96​	33.3​
1935 - 1940	19​	43​	6​	68​	32.4​
1999 - 2004	31​	65​	0​	96​	32.3​
2000 - 2005	30​	66​	0​	96​	31.2​
1949 - 1954	21​	49​	2​	72​	30.6​
1951 - 1956	21​	49​	2​	72​	30.6​
1952 - 1957	21​	49​	2​	72​	30.6​
1942 - 1947	19​	45​	0​	64​	29.7​
1954 - 1959	20​	50​	2​	72​	29.2​
1953 - 1958	19​	50​	3​	72​	28.5​
1950 - 1955	19​	51​	2​	72​	27.8​
1936 - 1941	16​	46​	5​	67​	27.6​
1937 - 1942	16​	46​	4​	66​	27.3​
1941 - 1946	13​	49​	1​	63​	21.4​
1938 - 1943	11​	51​	3​	65​	19.2​
1940 - 1945	9​	51​	3​	63​	16.7​
1939 - 1944	9​	52​	3​	64​	16.4​

This could be my favorite post of all time in its pure logical insanity.

 

[oaken1]

We have Kyler's tendencies in the stats from the 2023 season when we had two starting QB's.

In the 9 games with Dobbs, Trey had 31.8 yards per game and Mike Wilson had 50.1. In the games after Kyler returned Trey had 72 YPG and Mike had 17.

Same goes for Hollywood, who dropped from 48.8 to 26.8.

It's very clear Kyler doesn't like to throw the outside routes that his receivers are running from just watching him play, but these numbers confirm it. Mike Wilson didn't get 33 YPG worse when Kyler returned.

Dude is flat out costing his teammates money. Maybe even careers in some cases.

 

[oaken1]

Dude you're hilarious. the LOS was the 24 yard line. Marv dropped it at the 50/49 yard line so 27-28 yards. Even if Marv just falls over dead he's going to get 28 yards, but there's nobody there he has an easy 10 yards or more and if he accelerates he might actually score although I doubt it.

The one in the endzone I don't care who the ball was thrown to the ball hit Marv in the hands and he dropped it. That is a drop you can't just subtract that one out because it hurts your narrative. It was a full fledged 100% drop. That was 34 yards. That's 79 yards of drops without assuming Marv gets any YAC after the one at midfield. It puts him well over 6YPA and if Marv gets YAC it gets him closer to 7.

One of the problems with this offense is there's only so many chunk plays we even attempt to get in the passing game so when guys drop them, twice, it's a huge deal.

I would add kudos to Marv for hustling downfield on the ball in the endzone and of course it was a PI because the DB prevented Zay from coming back to the ball .

There's so many legit things to complain about with Kyler and yet you continually fabricate ones. even in the game thread you were blaming Kyler for the drop by MHJ at midfield.

There is a positive with the endzone drop.
We all know Marv needs more Dawg in him...and one defining trait in a Dawg WR is ball ownership... no matter who the pass is intended for ..if it's close any Dawg WR has a single thought...
"That's MY phukkin ball!" And he goes after it.
That play was the first time we have seen Marv just go after the ball...he intended to steal that TD catch from Zay Jones...and that's a good thing.....
As long as he ain't really really fast with hands of stone....

But for now I see it as a positive shift in attitude...dude had great hands in college...it's a concentration thing in the NFL.
He will get past it.

 

[oaken1]

602 not knowing that Kyler has the 2nd worst W/L record of any long term starter this franchise has had really explains a lot.

Rank	Quarterback	Starts	Wins	Losses	Ties	Win %

1

Carson Palmer

60

38

21

1

63.3%

2

Charley Johnson

69

36

28

5

56.5%

3

Jim Hart

180

87

88

5

49.2%

4

Kurt Warner

58

27

30

0

47.4%

5

Neil Lomax

101

47

52

2

47.0%

6

Kyler Murray

85

38

46

1

45.6%

7

Jake Plummer

82

30

52

0

36.6%

With all that reality staring me in the face I still remember Jake not only being more fun to watch...but the fan base having more hope then as well.
Jake's biggest issue was that he turned the ball over early and often...but then could play lights out as the game progressed and make a flurry at the end to try for the win.
I always thought a smart coach would sit Jake until the second quarter...let the team take some lumps, then bring him in as a relief pitcher...
But then he may have just thrown his picks later... I dunno

 

[oaken1]

Again there's plenty of things to legitimately complain about with Kyler we have an epic long thread about that you're posting in it. But to even suggest the drops Marv were Kylers fault is just a huge reach IMO. The one Marv dropped at the 50 Kyler got hit on the release that's why the throw was a balloon. The one in the endzone it doesn't matter who the ball was thrown to it went right through his hands.

We all agree Kyler has to play better, but if the receives and DeMercado do their job we win that game yesterday and Kyler ends up with a much better stat line

But that's the Cardinals right? Even when everything goes right somebody fails or makes a mistake...

 

[Stout]

Id bet money you bought a Max Hall jersey

If you knew board history, you would realize I was poking fun at myself lol

 

[Chopper0080]

My hope on Thursday is we see more 2nd half vs SF Kyler than 1st half vs SF. If so, those drops will turn into catches real quick.

 

[WisconsinCard]

K1 was not the reason we lost at on Sunday. Could he have played better? Of course he could. But down the stretch he made enough plays that we should have won. The only drop that mattered was the last one, when the win was there to be had. Winning teams make that play and we'll, the Cardinals are not a winning team.

As everyone knows I'm not a K1 fanboy, but I got to give credit where it's due. That last throw wasn't perfect but a professional WR catches that 9.8 out of 10 times. If they can't their coaches at youth football camps.

 

[WisconsinCard]

If you knew board history, you would realize I was poking fun at myself lol

EDP baby. Funny walk down memory lane.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I don’t know how close he was, but MHJ was (a) at a full stop; (b) facing the wrong direction; and (c) hopped (for some unknown reason). Warner was running full speed towards him at that point. I doubt MHJ scores. He definitely would’ve gotten some more yards, but how many? Who knows?

MHJ was trying to run before he caught it. That what I saw. Could he have been hearing footsteps? Or is he playing scared too?

Can't take your eyes off the ball until it's secure. Demarcado did the same thing Jones had the ball dislodged on the tackles which was soft , cuz it wasn't a brutal hit. From my seats view

 

[BritCard]

Dude is flat out costing his teammates money. Maybe even careers in some cases.

Trey appreciates him though

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not his fault & out of his control, but his atrocious defenses & front office prevents him.

I must’ve misunderstood the conversation.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

MHJ was trying to run before he caught it. That what I saw. Could he have been hearing footsteps? Or is he playing scared too?

Can't take your eyes off the ball until it's secure. Demarcado did the same thing Jones had the ball dislodged on the tackles which was soft , cuz it wasn't a brutal hit. From my seats view

He was definitely turning to run before he caught it. Again, that’s just fundamental receiver 101. Kind of like weird thing with him not knowing optimal hand positioning to catch certain balls. He’s absolutely baffling.

 

[BritCard]

This is the first play of the Niners game. First some praise, lots of protection on this first play with just the 2 man route and the leaking TE. Kyler actually goes through his reads and gets to his 3rd.

This is a good play to demonstrate the issues because it has 3 levels of difficulty.

The 1st read is Marv who runs a nice comeback route. That throw requires the ball out early and while I think it's there to be made if he throws it as Marv breaks it's not easy and Kyler has come off it by then.

The 2nd read is Mike over the middle on the dig. or me, this is an easy throw, Kyler has a bunch of time to throw this. warner has bit on the TE underneath. This is a throw you see QB's make all the time.

But he chooses the 3rd option, checkdown to the TE.

This is the conservative mindset I keep referring to. The options are there downfield, it's not the play calling, but when presented with an easy option Kyler will take it when the game is in the balance.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media