OT: Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[BritCard]

You play for one of the worst franchises historically in the league there won't be very many high points.

We have changed coaches, gms, players, stadiums, cities, and yet the team is no better than it was in 88.

Can't put my finger on what really needs to change.

A good quarterback would help, considering our periods of success have come with Warner and Palmer.

 

[Russ Smith]

Kyler was not good we agree but it's the height of statistics absurdity to complain about his YPA and excuse the drops. We have no idea but Marv dropped a pass that was at least 40 yards in the 3rd quarter and then dropped one even longer in the endzone. Jones had a big drop. There's well over 100 yards in drops on just those 3 passes. Now compute the YPA again if they make those catches?

it can be both, but the big problem yesterday was WHEN we had chances to make big plays, we dropped them. That one drive was insane Marv wide open drops an at least 40 yard gain that might have gone 70. But we get the big run by Benson to get in striking distance and then DeMercado drops a TD and we settle for a FG

Checking myself here. The drop in the endzone was 34 yards. The drop in the middle of the field went about 28 yards in the air with nobody near him let's say he gets 40 yards. That's 74 yards on those 2 plays alone. The one to Jones was about 18 yards so 92 yards on 3 plays that were just completely lost to drops. So he would have had 38 attempts 251 completions 251 yards and maybe more the first drop by Marv could have been a TD. Still not great but 6.6 YPA looks much better and if Marv catches that one and gets more than 40, which could easily have been the case you're looking at 7 YPA.

 

[BritCard]

K1s win loss record says otherwise.

Huh? Kyler is 38-46

His 45.6% win percentage is the worst of any Cardinals QB to play more than 20 games apart from Jake Plummer.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

K1s win loss record says otherwise.

lmk when you're ready to talk playoff record

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[Chopper0080]

Checking myself here. The drop in the endzone was 34 yards. The drop in the middle of the field went about 28 yards in the air with nobody near him let's say he gets 40 yards. That's 74 yards on those 2 plays alone. The one to Jones was about 18 yards so 92 yards on 3 plays that were just completely lost to drops. So he would have had 38 attempts 251 completions 251 yards and maybe more the first drop by Marv could have been a TD. Still not great but 6.6 YPA looks much better and if Marv catches that one and gets more than 40, which could easily have been the case you're looking at 7 YPA.

Kyler's intended air yards per attempt for the game which takes out the outcome were 5.4 yards. His air yards per attempt for the season is 5.7 which is 29th in the NFL.

EDIT: This is the stat @BritCard should be referencing.

 

[Russ Smith]

The pass Marv dropped was 25 yards. The one he dropped in the EZ wasn't even intended for him, it was underthrown to Jones and Marv tries to make a miracle catch out of nothing, I'm not counting that. It was an underthrown pass.

The Zay Jones drop was 17 yards. Let's be generous and call it 50. That would give him 5.91. Still dog crap.

Dude you're hilarious. the LOS was the 24 yard line. Marv dropped it at the 50/49 yard line so 27-28 yards. Even if Marv just falls over dead he's going to get 28 yards, but there's nobody there he has an easy 10 yards or more and if he accelerates he might actually score although I doubt it.

The one in the endzone I don't care who the ball was thrown to the ball hit Marv in the hands and he dropped it. That is a drop you can't just subtract that one out because it hurts your narrative. It was a full fledged 100% drop. That was 34 yards. That's 79 yards of drops without assuming Marv gets any YAC after the one at midfield. It puts him well over 6YPA and if Marv gets YAC it gets him closer to 7.

One of the problems with this offense is there's only so many chunk plays we even attempt to get in the passing game so when guys drop them, twice, it's a huge deal.

I would add kudos to Marv for hustling downfield on the ball in the endzone and of course it was a PI because the DB prevented Zay from coming back to the ball .

There's so many legit things to complain about with Kyler and yet you continually fabricate ones. even in the game thread you were blaming Kyler for the drop by MHJ at midfield.

 

[Mr X]

I don't know how we move off Kyler at this point. It's going to take an injury unfortunately. But what's the point anyway. We are mid to sub par throughout this entire organization. I don't even know who to blame anymore as far as players and coaches.

It all falls on this f-ing Bidwill family. It always has. We have to get rid of them!!!!!!

 

[urs]

Guess who our highest graded offensive player was on PFF this week. Kyler ain't the problem. He may not be the solution but there are MUCH larger problems on this offense than him. Goes with the territory as the QB though, you get the praise when things are rolling and the blame when things are bad.

 

[BritCard]

Dude you're hilarious. the LOS was the 24 yard line. Marv dropped it at the 50/49 yard line so 27-28 yards. Even if Marv just falls over dead he's going to get 28 yards, but there's nobody there he has an easy 10 yards or more and if he accelerates he might actually score although I doubt it.

The one in the endzone I don't care who the ball was thrown to the ball hit Marv in the hands and he dropped it. That is a drop you can't just subtract that one out because it hurts your narrative. It was a full fledged 100% drop. That was 34 yards. That's 79 yards of drops without assuming Marv gets any YAC after the one at midfield. It puts him well over 6YPA and if Marv gets YAC it gets him closer to 7.

One of the problems with this offense is there's only so many chunk plays we even attempt to get in the passing game so when guys drop them, twice, it's a huge deal.

I would add kudos to Marv for hustling downfield on the ball in the endzone and of course it was a PI because the DB prevented Zay from coming back to the ball .

There's so many legit things to complain about with Kyler and yet you continually fabricate ones. even in the game thread you were blaming Kyler for the drop by MHJ at midfield.

Dude, Fred Warner was going to turn him to paste. I think it contributed to the drop because Marv was expecting it in front of him, had to stop, saw Warner coming at him and lost focus.

I didn't blame Kyler for the drop. I said the pass was a bad one.

It's possible for it to be a bad pass and also that MHJ should have caught it. That was should have been out in front of Marv and he likely catches it and it's a TD.

 

[DVontel]

Dude, Fred Warner was going to turn him to paste.

lmao I’m so confused you keep saying this. How was this going to happen when Fred Warner was trailing Marv?

 

[urs]

Dude, Fred Warner was going to turn him to paste. I think it contributed to the drop because Marv was expecting it in front of him, had to stop, saw Warner coming at him and lost focus.

I didn't blame Kyler for the drop. I said the pass was a bad one.

It's possible for it to be a bad pass and also that MHJ should have caught it. That was should have been out in front of Marv and he likely catches it and it's a TD.

Kyler did exactly what you complain about him not doing. He stood in there and delivered the ball while getting hit.

 

[Russ Smith]

Dude, Fred Warner was going to turn him to paste. I think it contributed to the drop because Marv was expecting it in front of him, had to stop, saw Warner coming at him and lost focus.

I didn't blame Kyler for the drop. I said the pass was a bad one.

It's possible for it to be a bad pass and also that MHJ should have caught it.

warner is 5 yards away when he drops the ball. he catches that and heads downfield it's questionable if Warner even catches him. He's not even at full speed he just turned and started running when he realized where Marv is. Look at this screenshot from the replay and tell me again that Warner is going to nail Marv? Again the way Marv has played so far I'm expecting if he does catch it, Warner will catch him from behind anyways because he's a long strider that takes awhile to get to full speed but , that's easily another 10 yards

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[Russ Smith]

lmao I’m so confused you keep saying this. How was this going to happen when Fred Warner was trailing Marv?

he also keeps saying it was a bad throw. Here's why the throw wasn't perfectly leading Marv.

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[Russ Smith]

Let's put it this way. We're playing Thur night on Prime. when they show those plays before the game while they're all strutting around in their suits which guy do you think they're going to be calling out on those drops, Kyler Murray or Marv?

It's weird it's hard to screen shot exactly where you want but on the midfield drop the claim is he's afraid he's going to get nailed by Warner but he's not even looking at Warner he's looking to his right kind of towards the sideline. My screenshot is right as the ball is starting to come out of his hands it's the best I could get on my laptop

I'm sure by the time the All 22 comes out the pocket will be clean and the ball will be rolling end over end with Warner a foot away.

 

[BritCard]

warner is 5 yards away when he drops the ball. he catches that and heads downfield it's questionable if Warner even catches him. He's not even at full speed he just turned and started running when he realized where Marv is. Look at this screenshot from the replay and tell me again that Warner is going to nail Marv? Again the way Marv has played so far I'm expecting if he does catch it, Warner will catch him from behind anyways because he's a long strider that takes awhile to get to full speed but , that's easily another 10 yards

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Dude Marv is stationary and has to catch the ball, turn and accelerate. If you don't think Warner is closing those 5 yards, when he is already moving full speed, before that happens I don't know what to tell you.

 

[BritCard]

Let's put it this way. We're playing Thur night on Prime. when they show those plays before the game while they're all strutting around in their suits which guy do you think they're going to be calling out on those drops, Kyler Murray or Marv?

It's weird it's hard to screen shot exactly where you want but on the midfield drop the claim is he's afraid he's going to get nailed by Warner but he's not even looking at Warner he's looking to his right kind of towards the sideline. My screenshot is right as the ball is starting to come out of his hands it's the best I could get on my laptop

I'm sure by the time the All 22 comes out the pocket will be clean and the ball will be rolling end over end with Warner a foot away.

The drops were on Marv and Jones. The poor throws are on Kyler.

The drops are insignificant if we had an offense that doesn't suck balls literally the WHOLE GAME and it sucks balls because Kyler is running it. There were a dozen missed chances and bad throws in the game.

You're all concentrating on the upset stomach and ignoring the stage 4 cancer that's causing it. You can't set aside the dozens of checkdowns and missed opportunities and say this one drop cost us the game. Yes, the Zay Jones drop cost us the game in the circumstances we ended up in, but we never would have been in that position if we had a decent freakin' QB.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

Dude Marv is stationary and has to catch the ball, turn and accelerate. If you don't think Warner is closing those 5 yards, when he is already moving full speed, before that happens I don't know what to tell you.

lol that's the only time i saw charmin "standing around" yesterday - when he was waiting for kyler's ball to get there

 

[kerouac9]

K1s win loss record says otherwise.

Are you gonna be high-and-mighty over 38-46-1? Seriously?

With Wilks + Arians the Cards were 54-43-1 over six total seasons.

Monty and Gannon are 14-23. Kyler and Petzing are 13-19.

Pointing to record to defend Kyler is a pretty wild move.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Are you gonna be high-and-mighty over 38-46-1? Seriously?

With Wilks + Arians the Cards were 54-43-1 over six total seasons.

Monty and Gannon are 14-23. Kyler and Petzing are 13-19.

Pointing to record to defend Kyler is a pretty wild move.

After a LOSS where he led us to a whopping 13 points in a season where he’s led the offense to a pathetic 18 ppg.

 

[602 Native]

Huh? Kyler is 38-46

His 45.6% win percentage is the worst of any Cardinals QB to play more than 20 games apart from Jake Plummer.

The argument was a seven year stretch. Go look at the seven year stretches and the Win loss comparatively he’s not anywhere near close to being the worst.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

The argument was a seven year stretch. Go look at the seven year stretches and the Win loss comparatively he’s not anywhere near close to being the worst.

still waiting for your take on his playoff record

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[kerouac9]

The argument was a seven year stretch. Go look at the seven year stretches and the Win loss comparatively he’s not anywhere near close to being the worst.

Cards were 57-62 in the seven years that included the last year of the Denny Green era and all of the Whisenhunt years.

 

[kerouac9]

Cards were 35-76 during the Tobin-McGinnis-Grene years.

So I guess you have to hand it to Kyler.

 

[BritCard]

Are you gonna be high-and-mighty over 38-46-1? Seriously?

With Wilks + Arians the Cards were 54-43-1 over six total seasons.

Monty and Gannon are 14-23. Kyler and Petzing are 13-19.

Pointing to record to defend Kyler is a pretty wild move.

602 not knowing that Kyler has the 2nd worst W/L record of any long term starter this franchise has had really explains a lot.

Rank	Quarterback	Starts	Wins	Losses	Ties	Win %

1

Carson Palmer

60

38

21

1

63.3%

2

Charley Johnson

69

36

28

5

56.5%

3

Jim Hart

180

87

88

5

49.2%

4

Kurt Warner

58

27

30

0

47.4%

5

Neil Lomax

101

47

52

2

47.0%

6

Kyler Murray

85

38

46

1

45.6%

7

Jake Plummer

82

30

52

0

36.6%

 

[BritCard]

The argument was a seven year stretch. Go look at the seven year stretches and the Win loss comparatively he’s not anywhere near close to being the worst.

I mean, you clearly have no clue if that's true or not because nobody ever breaks franchise records down into random 7 year chunks.

Not that is matters, because QB record is obviously far more relevant. Unless you think we should be comparing Kyler to periods where we didn't have a settled QB?