OT: Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[Brian in Mesa]

Both of these are true:

He is the 2nd best QB in Cardinals history.

He is also super mid in the modern NFL

Depends on how you rank QBs. I'd put him behind any Cardinals' QB who won in the playoffs or had us playing at a high level late in the season.

 

[Shane]

Depends on how you rank QBs. I'd put him behind any Cardinals' QB who won in the playoffs or had us playing at a high level late in the season.

Nah he’s clearly 3rd… and I don’t care about ChatGPT stats. What I saw on the field and results. Warner and Palmer are both far ahead of Kyler.

 

[PDXChris]

Nah he’s clearly 3rd… and I don’t care about ChatGPT stats. What I saw on the field and results. Warner and Palmer are both far ahead of Kyler.

For fun, I asked Gemini to rank them.

Ranking the top 10 Arizona Cardinals quarterbacks of all time is a complex task, as the team has a long and varied history dating back to its time in Chicago and St. Louis. There are multiple ways to measure success, including traditional volume stats (yards, touchdowns), efficiency metrics (passer rating, completion percentage), and, most importantly, on-field success (wins, playoff appearances). Given the different eras and varying levels of team success, a comprehensive ranking must consider a combination of these factors. Here is a ranking of the top 10 Arizona Cardinals quarterbacks of all time, considering career longevity, statistical achievements, and impact on the franchise.

1. Kurt Warner (2005-2009) Despite a relatively short tenure, Kurt Warner's impact is undeniable. He led the Cardinals to their only Super Bowl appearance in franchise history in 2008 and revitalized the team. He was the architect of one of the most exciting offenses in the NFL during that time and holds the franchise record for the highest single-season passer rating. His clutch performances in the 2008 and 2009 playoffs solidify his place at the top. Key Stats: 15,843 passing yards, 100 touchdowns, 91.9 passer rating, and a 65.1% completion percentage. Impact: Led the team to Super Bowl XLIII and two playoff appearances.

2. Carson Palmer (2013-2017) Carson Palmer resurrected his career in Arizona and led the team to some of its most successful seasons. He guided the team to the NFC Championship Game in 2015, a season in which he finished second in MVP voting. His deep passing ability and command of the offense brought a level of stability and excitement to the position that hadn't been seen in years. Key Stats: 16,782 passing yards, 105 touchdowns, 91.1 passer rating, and a 62.5% completion percentage. He also has the highest winning percentage for any long-term Cardinals QB (38-21-1). Impact: Led the team to a franchise-best 13-3 record in 2015 and an NFC Championship appearance.

3. Jim Hart (1966-1983) Jim Hart is the franchise's all-time leader in nearly every major passing category, including passing yards (34,639), completions, attempts, and touchdowns (209). While his longevity is a huge factor in his ranking, he also led the Cardinals to three playoff appearances in the 1970s. While his win-loss record isn't sterling, he played in an era where quarterback stats were lower and defense was king. His 180 career starts for the franchise are a testament to his longevity and importance. Key Stats: 34,639 passing yards, 209 touchdowns, and a 51.1% completion percentage. Impact: Franchise leader in all major passing volume stats and led the team to three playoff appearances.

4. Kyler Murray (2019-Present) Kyler Murray is a dynamic quarterback who has quickly established himself as a top talent. He won Offensive Rookie of the Year and has earned multiple Pro Bowl selections. He led the Cardinals to a playoff berth in 2021, the first for the franchise in six years. His dual-threat ability and high-level efficiency metrics rank among the best in franchise history. Key Stats: 19,498 passing yards, 115 touchdowns, 92.4 passer rating, and a 67.1% completion percentage (all through 2024 season). Impact: Won Offensive Rookie of the Year and led the team to a playoff berth. He holds the highest career passer rating and completion percentage for the franchise.

5. Jake Plummer (1997-2002) "Jake the Snake" was known for his unorthodox style and ability to make plays on the run. While his stats may not jump off the page, he led the Arizona Cardinals to their first playoff win since the 1947 NFL Championship. He brought a sense of swagger to the team and was a fan favorite for his exciting, unpredictable play. Key Stats: 17,622 passing yards, 90 touchdowns, and a 69.0 passer rating. Impact: Led the Cardinals to their first playoff win in 51 years and a playoff appearance in 1998.

6. Neil Lomax (1981-1988) Neil Lomax was the starting quarterback for the Cardinals when the team moved to Arizona. He ranks second in franchise history for passing yards and touchdowns and had a very respectable passer rating for his era. His career was unfortunately cut short due to injuries, but he was a productive and consistent quarterback during his time. Key Stats: 22,771 passing yards, 136 touchdowns, and an 82.7 passer rating. Impact: The face of the franchise during the transition from St. Louis to Arizona.

7. Charley Johnson (1961-1969) Charley Johnson was a solid and consistent quarterback in the 1960s. He led the Cardinals to a .500 or better record in five of his eight seasons as a starter. He was also a Pro Bowler in 1963 and led the NFL in passing touchdowns in 1964. Key Stats: 14,928 passing yards and 108 touchdowns. Impact: A consistent winner and a Pro Bowler in an era of run-heavy offenses.

8. Boomer Esiason (1996) Boomer Esiason's time with the Cardinals was short but memorable. His 522-yard passing performance in a single game is a franchise record and one of the best single-game performances in NFL history. While he only played one season, his individual greatness is worth acknowledging. Key Stats: 2,293 passing yards and 11 touchdowns in one season. Impact: Holds the franchise's single-game passing yardage record.

9. Josh McCown (2002-2005) Josh McCown's time in Arizona was marked by inconsistent play, but he did provide a few memorable moments. He is probably best known for his "Hail Mary" throw to Larry Fitzgerald in 2003, which gave the Cardinals a dramatic victory. While not the most statistically impressive, he was the starting QB for a period and showed flashes of potential. Key Stats: 5,431 passing yards and 25 touchdowns. Impact: Had a few key moments, including the game-winning touchdown to Larry Fitzgerald.

10. Paul Christman (1945-1949) A key member of the "Dream Backfield," Paul Christman led the Chicago Cardinals to the 1947 NFL Championship. As a dual-threat quarterback in an era before it was common, he was a crucial part of the team's only championship. His stats may not be as gaudy as modern QBs, but his on-field success and legacy cannot be ignored. Key Stats: 6,749 passing yards and 51 touchdowns. Impact: Led the Chicago Cardinals to their only NFL Championship.

 

[WeBlitz]

Depends on how you rank QBs. I'd put him behind any Cardinals' QB who won in the playoffs or had us playing at a high level late in the season.

The way you view football is so flawed.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

The way you view football is so flawed.

How's that?

In person for 37 years of home games and counting?

Caring more about results than stats?

 

[DVontel]

Brian doesn’t know anyone in the organization outside of Kyler


I thought everyone knew this lol

 

[WakeForestCard]

kyler has more games under 200 than over 300...

Which makes sense? Even the elites like Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Pat Mahomes all had more sub 200 yard games than 300 yard games last year.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I don't think it's the least bit controversial to say that Warner and Palmer were both better QB's than anything that Kyler has shown. Kyler may have had better stats in some areas, but that doesn't mean he's a better QB.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Brian doesn’t know anyone in the organization outside of Kyler


I thought everyone knew this lol

Been a fan since before he was born and I'll be a fan long after he is just another former player.

 

[DVontel]

Been a fan since before he was born and I'll be a fan long after he is just another former player.

Are you sure? You literally do not talk about anybody else that’s currently on the team. Players, coaches, etc. I’d be liable to think you’re only here for Kyler.

 

[GatorAZ]

I don't think it's the least bit controversial to say that Warner and Palmer were both better QB's than anything that Kyler has shown. Kyler may have had better stats in some areas, but that doesn't mean he's a better QB.

.
Kurt is #1 and anyone that doesn’t remember what 08-10’ felt like is too young to comment.

Carson finished 2nd in MVP voting in 2015 so he has the edge over Kyler. That team was humming until the Philly game where Mathieu tore his ACL and Palmer broke his finger. Granted he had a meltdown in Carolina as did Kyler in LA. If we make the playoffs this year and Kyler is a big reason why he will take that #2 spot.

 

[football karma]

i feel like Neil Lomax is underrated -- like so many Cardinal QBs, he endured a roster changeover -- and just about the time the roster was good again (and after beating the Giants and taking first in the NFC East) he hurt his hip and that was that

 

[kerouac9]

Granted he had a meltdown in Carolina

We had 13 drives in that game. The of those drives ended after one play and a turnover. Another ended with a turnover after two plays. Four were three-and-outs, including the first three drives.

 

[DVontel]

We were never beating Carolina even if Badger & Palmer were 100% healthy btw.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Are you sure? You literally do not talk about anybody else that’s currently on the team. Players, coaches, etc. I’d be liable to think you’re only here for Kyler.

That is laughable.

I have called Connor the heart of the team and have had him as my avatar once football starts up the past couple of years.

 

[BritCard]

In our scoring system he is ranked about right here he should be. I kept him for a 12th but really my starter is Goff.

Our scoring system. Passing TDs 6 and 5 points for over 300 yards. I don't see any 300 yard games for Kyler in this offense and with this defense.

This has pretty much always been the case though right? Even in 2021 he only had 3, and in 2020, which was his peak year with Hopkins, he had 3.

Which is quite shocking really considering how much we played from behind in his career. For comparison Goff had 6 over 300 on a winning team last year.

Surely this is a weakness in Kyler's game and not some outside influence? Never broke 4000 yards and low number of games over 300 yards, despite playing on teams that spent a lot of time losing.

It's why I used to argue Christian Kirk was better than he was allowed to show here. Because you could see him getting open in great positions but Kyler just wouldn't see it. Same now with Mike Wilson. Like Kyler I think he's a 1000 yard receiver. But I don't expect him to break 750 if healthy. Same with Marv. Marv is probably a 1400 yard receiver on most teams, I think he'll land in 1000-1100 yards range.

IMO Kyler is a 25% hand break on any wide receivers play.

 

[DaHilg]

This has pretty much always been the case though right? Even in 2021 he only had 3, and in 2020, which was his peak year with Hopkins, he had 3.

Which is quite shocking really considering how much we played from behind in his career. For comparison Goff had 6 over 300 on a winning team last year.

Surely this is a weakness in Kyler's game and not some outside influence? Never broke 4000 yards and low number of games over 300 yards, despite playing on teams that spent a lot of time losing.

It's why I used to argue Christian Kirk was better than he was allowed to show here. Because you could see him getting open in great positions but Kyler just wouldn't see it. Same now with Mike Wilson. Like Kyler I think he's a 1000 yard receiver. But I don't expect him to break 750 if healthy. Same with Marv. Marv is probably a 1400 yard receiver on most teams, I think he'll land in 1000-1100 yards range.

IMO Kyler is a 25% hand break on any wide receivers play.

Hahahahah what in the world has MW shown to be a 1000 yard WR. This is pure delusional speculation

 

[kerouac9]

Hahahahah what in the world has MW shown to be a 1000 yard WR. This is pure delusional speculation

Yeah i don’t see a lot of evidence that Wilson can be a low-end #1 or high-end #2.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Yeah i don’t see a lot of evidence that Wilson can be a low-end #1 or high-end #2.

Average 3, low end 2. No stand out traits other than attitude - just a guy.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

are we mcbriding wilson again? first year he got dobbsed - last year he shared the field with the best tight end and the (non qb) #1 draft pick- if wilson doesn't do anything this year than so be it but he's still an unknown quantity rn

 

[kerouac9]

are we mcbriding wilson again? first year he got dobbsed - last year he shared the field with the best tight end and the (non qb) #1 draft pick- if wilson doesn't do anything this year than so be it but he's still an unknown quantity rn

What has changed about his situation from last year?

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

What has changed about his situation from last year?

nothing - which they're counting on - i hope we don't do anything next year either - there's this thing called continuity man

 

[Shane]

What has changed about his situation from last year?

Well, unless I’m mistaken, it shows Wilson is a primary slot receiver now and Zay Jones on the outside wasn’t that different last year? I honestly don’t know.

 

[kerouac9]

Well, unless I’m mistaken, it shows Wilson is a primary slot receiver now and Zay Jones on the outside wasn’t that different last year? I honestly don’t know.

I think everyone will play out of the slot at times, but I hope we move Charmin there primarily and keep Wilson as a Y receiver.

I don’t see any need to optimize the offense for Michael Wilson. I think he maxes out as a 750-yard, 6 TD kinda dude. That’ll get him $12 million a year when he reaches free agency tho.

 

[football karma]

there's this thing called continuity man

for a passing offense relying on young WRs -- i think this is underrated