On our OL

[Jetstream Green]

Yes, granted we stayed healthy and that was a plus but answer the question as is. With our running yards and passing blocking the later part of the season, how would you rank our current OL. Frankly they were average, average with a QB who learned not to run into sacks and is mobile. Guys, taking a WR or defensive stud which might slip to us makes more sense than taking a freaking RT in the top ten... unless of course you plan to trade out

 

[Solar7]

Don't we have enough threads dedicated to just this? It's my schtick, so I'll revisit my arguments, but...

Kyler Murray was a top 5 hurried QB. He was 33rd in hits. He did a wonderful job of getting away, and I believe his sacks he's "responsible for" were his part of his desperation to make a play in rough situations, which was basically the whole season.

Is "average" the way you want our quarterback protected?

I'm fine with a defensive stud. There's only so many balls to go around at WR.

 

[unseenaz]

You can quickly ruin a young QBs career by not protecting him adequately. Kyler was running for his life too often. he got some decent pass pro at times, but other times he made plays scrambling because the protection broke down.

 

[oaken1]

I

Don't we have enough threads dedicated to just this? It's my schtick, so I'll revisit my arguments, but...

Kyler Murray was a top 5 hurried QB. He was 33rd in hits. He did a wonderful job of getting away, and I believe his sacks he's "responsible for" were his part of his desperation to make a play in rough situations, which was basically the whole season.

Is "average" the way you want our quarterback protected?

I'm fine with a defensive stud. There's only so many balls to go around at WR.

I think if we could count on solid average every single game our offense could be awesome
Average line play combined with above average avoidability makes our passing game top notch
Kyler is gonna scramble and move no matter what
Even if we lined up five all pros in front of him

 

[BritCard]

Quite simple. Below average.

The most talented player on our line is Justin Pugh. He might not start on half the lines in the league.

There are 3 things you need for a young QB

1, Protect him
2, Give him a defense to lean on so he doesn't have to be a hero every drive
3, Give him some targets (which we now have)

It's time to address 1 and 2.

 

[Garthshort]

I think the Cardinals love that other teams think that we're targeting the OL and WR positions, when we're planning to trade back and go defense. Possibly DL (Kinlaw), but I wouldn't be shocked if it's a CB (Henderson).

 

[slanidrac16]

I just don’t think we are going OT with #8.

I won’t be upset if we do.

I think Lamb unless the right defensive player is there. Simmons, Brown or Okudah.

 

[BritCard]

I just don’t think we are going OT with #8.

I won’t be upset if we do.

I think Lamb unless the right defensive player is there. Simmons, Brown or Okudah.

The outcome I'm expecting most is a trade back. We could go to anywhere in the teens and still fill major holes while picking up more picks.

 

[Finito]

Our defense was probably the worst in the nfl last year

If Young, Simmons or Okudah is there you have to take em, but if there all gone I’m fine with Brown, Thomas, Wirfs or Wills

 

[Proximo]

Don't we have enough threads dedicated to just this? It's my schtick, so I'll revisit my arguments, but...

Kyler Murray was a top 5 hurried QB. He was 33rd in hits. He did a wonderful job of getting away, and I believe his sacks he's "responsible for" were his part of his desperation to make a play in rough situations, which was basically the whole season.

Is "average" the way you want our quarterback protected?

I'm fine with a defensive stud. There's only so many balls to go around at WR.

Russell Wilson has had below average protection his whole career, and he has still had a lot of success.

The cowboys have had one of the best lines in the league for several years now, and have almost nothing to show for it.

In my book an average offensive line is good enough, they just need to be good enough to not lose you games.

 

[BritCard]

Russell Wilson has had below average protection his whole career, and he has still had a lot of success.

The cowboys have had one of the best lines in the league for several years now, and have almost nothing to show for it.

In my book an average offensive line is good enough, they just need to be good enough to not lose you games.

You know what I always find works well in life.

Take the single outlier in any set of data and try to replicate it. That always works out.

 

[Solar7]

Russell Wilson has had below average protection his whole career, and he has still had a lot of success.

The cowboys have had one of the best lines in the league for several years now, and have almost nothing to show for it.

In my book an average offensive line is good enough, they just need to be good enough to not lose you games.

Russel Wilson's best success and appearances in the Super Bowl came when he had two Pro Bowl offensive linemen in Russel Okung and Max Unger. Not to mention a dominant run game and elite defense. We don't have a player of that caliber on our line, much less two. Our running game is middling, and our defense is the worst in the league.

Wilson runs for his life each year and barely ekes the team to like 10 wins and then they're an early playoff out. I'd rather be appearing in Super Bowls.

 

[DVontel]

Russel Wilson's best success and appearances in the Super Bowl came when he had two Pro Bowl offensive linemen in Russel Okung and Max Unger. Not to mention a dominant run game and elite defense. We don't have a player of that caliber on our line, much less two. Our running game is middling, and our defense is the worst in the league.

Wilson runs for his life each year and barely ekes the team to like 10 wins and then they're an early playoff out. I'd rather be appearing in Super Bowls.

You know what I always find works well in life.

Take the single outlier in any set of data and try to replicate it. That always works out.

Hell, Russell getting thrown around year after year by us in Seattle should be enough to see that we don’t want Kyler to end up like that at all costs.

 

[DVontel]

I think the 2011 Giants are the last team to win a SB with a sub-par OLine & defense heading into the playoffs.

 

[Solar7]

Hell, Russell getting thrown around year after year by us in Seattle should be enough to see that we don’t want Kyler to end up like that at all costs.

Yep. Those who point to Wilson's success are way too confident that Kyler is going to end up as wildly lucky as Russ.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Russel Wilson's best success and appearances in the Super Bowl came when he had two Pro Bowl offensive linemen in Russel Okung and Max Unger. Not to mention a dominant run game and elite defense. We don't have a player of that caliber on our line, much less two. Our running game is middling, and our defense is the worst in the league.

Wilson runs for his life each year and barely ekes the team to like 10 wins and then they're an early playoff out. I'd rather be appearing in Super Bowls.

5 yard av. per carry last season, #2 in the League and #10 in total yardage gained.

No reason to believe at this point that we'll be less successful.

Our "D" has added pieces, will add more, rookies have a season of experience and we should have CB#1 & #2 available.

What we were last season is a history of little consequence going forward.

 

[Solar7]

5 yard av. per carry last season, #2 in the League and #10 in total yardage gained.

No reason to believe at this point that we'll be less successful.

Our "D" has added pieces, will add more, rookies have a season of experience and we should have CB#1 & #2 available.

What we were last season is a history of little consequence going forward.

and Kyler was the 5th most hurried QB in the league. This offensive line playing at their best, uninjured, is barely average.

I think the reason to believe we'll be less successful with this unit is statistical regression to the mean. On average through their careers, most of our line is very injury prone. Justin Murray on average is barely a backup. I'm not saying it'll all come crashing down, but that the players are more likely to be what they always have been at this point in their careers. And center is an extremely important position that we have a tremendous question mark at.

Our D will be better, but by how much? Is an improvement from last to 22nd (just mirroring last year's jump for the OL) enough? I would say no, not to replicate Russell Wilson's success.

 

[GuernseyCard]

and Kyler was the 5th most hurried QB in the league. This offensive line playing at their best, uninjured, is barely average.

I think the reason to believe we'll be less successful with this unit is statistical regression to the mean. On average through their careers, most of our line is very injury prone. Justin Murray on average is barely a backup. I'm not saying it'll all come crashing down, but that the players are more likely to be what they always have been at this point in their careers. And center is an extremely important position that we have a tremendous question mark at.

Our D will be better, but by how much? Is an improvement from last to 22nd (just mirroring last year's jump for the OL) enough? I would say no, not to replicate Russell Wilson's success.

What's the mean given that 2019 was the first season that most of these o-lineman suited up together?

At this point in his maturation, it's certainly not inconceivable that Cole will be as good or superior to Shipley, and that Gilbert starting at R-tackle is an improvement. And the only valid reference for Murray is the 12 games he started in 2019.

 

[Solar7]

What's the mean given that 2019 was the first season that most of these o-lineman suited up together?

At this point in his maturation, it's certainly not inconceivable that Cole will be as good or superior to Shipley, and that Gilbert starting at R-tackle is an improvement. And the only valid reference for Murray is the 12 games he started in 2019.

Except that Cole got beaten out by a not-young Shipley recovering from an ACL tear, with absolutely no coaching loyalty like he had with the previous regime.

I'm not counting on Gilbert. He might be an improvement. It's been five years since he played 16 games, a feat he's accomplished twice in a nearly 10 year career. You can claim nothing else about Justin Murray's history counts for anything, but it doesn't make it true. 5 other NFL teams evaluated him and felt he was not good enough.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Except that Cole got beaten out by a not-young Shipley recovering from an ACL tear, with absolutely no coaching loyalty like he had with the previous regime.

I'm not counting on Gilbert. He might be an improvement. It's been five years since he played 16 games, a feat he's accomplished twice in a nearly 10 year career. You can claim nothing else about Justin Murray's history counts for anything, but it doesn't make it true. 5 other NFL teams evaluated him and felt he was not good enough.

Claiming that Murray's history before his opportunity in the desert is relevant doesn't make it so. We don't know what led to the decision to start Shipley over Cole, but we do know that Cole has the nod now. Yes, Gilbert's availability is a cause for concern, but until he goes down he's a quality starter, and we have a backup if need be.

 

[Solar7]

Claiming that Murray's history before his opportunity in the desert is relevant doesn't make it so. We don't know what led to the decision to start Shipley over Cole, but we do know that Cole has the nod. Yes, Gilbert's availability is a cause for concern, but until he goes down he's a quality starter, and we have a backup if need be.

At best, you're settling for average in protecting the most important player on the field. If these players weren't on our team, you'd be unenthused to add them or count on them.

Cole doesn't even have the nod yet - Keim acknowledged Shipley is still a possibility to return.

I just struggle to understand why anyone is comfortable with average to below average play on the line, but thinks we need to desperately upgrade the strongest unit of our team, mainly based on the fear that we're going to lose Fitz in a year. (Admittedly, I don't 100% recall if you're fully into the WR pick, or just anti-OT.)

If not now to upgrade the OL, when? I mean this as a genuine question, not to antagonize. Are you comfortable with constant retreads or low round picks that are just kinda guys? This might be a major philosophical difference in how we build teams.

 

[GuernseyCard]

At best, you're settling for average in protecting the most important player on the field. If these players weren't on our team, you'd be unenthused to add them or count on them.

Cole doesn't even have the nod yet - Keim acknowledged Shipley is still a possibility to return.

I just struggle to understand why anyone is comfortable with average to below average play on the line, but thinks we need to desperately upgrade the strongest unit of our team, mainly based on the fear that we're going to lose Fitz in a year. (Admittedly, I don't 100% recall if you're fully into the WR pick, or just anti-OT.)

If not now to upgrade the OL, when? I mean this as a genuine question, not to antagonize. Are you comfortable with constant retreads or low round picks that are just kinda guys? This might be a major philosophical difference in how we build teams.

I can imagine 50 to 100 more points in the second year of this offence with the present lineup and my concern is 50 to 100 fewer points given. As such, I'm hoping for one of the "D" stalwarts dropping to #8. Beyond that, I'm an agnostic. I have no issue with a CeeDee pick or Wills as both fit into the medium, long term.

 

[Solar7]

I can imagine 50 to 100 more points in the second year of this offence with the present lineup and my concern is 50 to 100 fewer points given. As such, I'm hoping for one of the "D" stalwarts dropping to #8. Beyond that, I'm an agnostic. I have no issue with a CeeDee pick or Wills as both fit into the medium, long term.

Right on. I can get with you on the defensive talent, 100%.

 

[Dr. Jones]

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He's got bad feet!

#1 LT in this draft. I've been saying it since January


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Buckybird]

The most talented player on our line is Justin Pugh.

Strongly disagree, but yeah we need to add at least 2 Olineman minimum