Monday night football Vikings@Bears

[Russ Smith]

Hell no.

I don't like McCarthy I think he had a good 4th quarter but he has the same flaws Caleb has and he's much closer to his ceiling. McCarthy is one of those kids who had a QB coach in 8th grade, he was a 3 year varsity starter and on the varsity as a freshman in HS. Played for Harbaugh in college. Caleb had a highly regarded college coach but his issues are mechanics IMO. He's not accurate because he changes his mechanics regularly. He can make all the throws but he has to develop touch and he has to refine his mechanics, I'm assuming Ben Johnson will make a big impact on that .

With McCarthy he's had that type of coaching for years already. He's better but he reminds me quite a bit of Jimmy Clausen

 

[Russ Smith]

I imagine this is what you do when you draft a young QB who is resilient.

One of the reasons McCarthy is going to be successful is because he is with a coach who has demonstrated the ability to get the most out of QBs. KOC was a 4 year starting QB in college and then had a short pro career. His OC is the son of Wade Phillips and played QB for 3 years a UTEP. The QB coach is Josh McCown who had an 18 year NFL career. They had McCarthy work with Brian Flores all of last year after he was injured to learn about NFL defenses and coverages. Next level support and plan for a young QB to grow and be successful.

See what I just posted he had YEARS of that coaching already. He was one of those kids who grew up in QB camps with private coaches. Ironically he says he wanted to be a hockey player but he had a college scholarship offer from Iowa State as an 8th grader from one of the football camps he attended and eventually they said ok he's a QB and then went all in on that.
Eating breakfast accidentlly hit send. If you watched the game they kept batting down his passes, 3 or 4 in this game. He's 6'2" or 3 so he's not short like kyler but he has a slow windup release on his throws so lineman can tell when he's throwing and time their jump, it happened to him in college too. The scouting reports on him pre draft were all like that, slow release, impacts his arm strength and he tends to be late on throws as a result. He made some really nice throws in the 4th quarter but for most of the game he was late and leading guys into contact in fact at one point the announcer said he needs to learn to stop doing that his teammates aren't going to like it. If you read the NFL.com scouting report on him that was one of his known weaknesses would put his teammates in danger because of where he puts the ball.

 

[kerouac9]

See what I just posted he had YEARS of that coaching already. He was one of those kids who grew up in QB camps with private coaches. Ironically he says he wanted to be a hockey player but he had a college scholarship offer from Iowa State as an 8th grader from one of the football camps he attended and eventually they said ok he's a QB and then went all in on that.

Is your assertion that Caleb Williams wasn’t going to QB camps through high school? What are we even talking about here? He wasn’t Cam Ward brother.

 

[Chopper0080]

See what I just posted he had YEARS of that coaching already. He was one of those kids who grew up in QB camps with private coaches

And...he was humble enough to play a complementary role in Michigan when Harbaugh wanted to run the ball and play defense. He spent his injured year with Brian Flores studying defenses and coverages with Brian Flores. He has multiple people within his coaching staff who can speak the language of being a QB. He showed in game 1, that he is resilient. He has vets who are already talking up his leadership and work ethic.

Caleb Williams had a college career that portrayed him as a spoiled brat. A player who was handed everything and couldn't win despite being at two major football programs. All of these young QBs are in QB camps.

It isn't even close here IMO.

 

[Russ Smith]

And...he was humble enough to play a complementary role in Michigan when Harbaugh wanted to run the ball and play defense. He spent his injured year with Brian Flores studying defenses and coverages with Brian Flores. He has multiple people within his coaching staff who can speak the language of being a QB. He showed in game 1, that he is resilient. He has vets who are already talking up his leadership and work ethic.

Caleb Williams had a college career that portrayed him as a spoiled brat. A player who was handed everything and couldn't win despite being at two major football programs. All of these young QBs are in QB camps.

It isn't even close here IMO.

Oh Yeah I think Caleb's big issues are he thinks he's much better than he is, he has to learn humility but I think Johnson will help with that.

I said it during the game, McCarthy is an athlete playing QB, he wanted to be a hockey player. So he's tough and will compete, but despite years of coaching he still isn't that great.

 

[Russ Smith]

Is your assertion that Caleb Williams wasn’t going to QB camps through high school? What are we even talking about here? He wasn’t Cam Ward brother.

My assertion is that from 8th grade on McCarthy was getting private high level coaching which means despite him looking like a very raw kid, he's not. I compared him to Clausen, personality wise Caleb is like Clausen, people seem to not like him, but in terms of playing the position it was the same thing, Clausen had a QB coach for years before he got to ND. It made him look good when he was younger, but everyone else caught up with him.

Caleb has a better arm, much better arm, and is a much better runner. Yes he had a QB coach too my point is he has the actual tools to develop, I don't think McCarthy actually does. He has a good not great arm, I don't think he'll be horrible but I never got him going in the first round I thought it was a reach.

Caleb needs to mature and refine his mechanics, McCarthy I just don't think has the physical tools to be really good.

 

[Chopper0080]

My assertion is that from 8th grade on McCarthy was getting private high level coaching which means despite him looking like a very raw kid, he's not. I compared him to Clausen, personality wise Caleb is like Clausen, people seem to not like him, but in terms of playing the position it was the same thing, Clausen had a QB coach for years before he got to ND. It made him look good when he was younger, but everyone else caught up with him.

Caleb has a better arm, much better arm, and is a much better runner. Yes he had a QB coach too my point is he has the actual tools to develop, I don't think McCarthy actually does. He has a good not great arm, I don't think he'll be horrible but I never got him going in the first round I thought it was a reach.

Caleb needs to mature and refine his mechanics, McCarthy I just don't think has the physical tools to be really good.

I disagree. What other tools are you looking for? He has size. He has a good arm. He is mobile. He is tough. He is not scared of the moment. He is coachable.

Kyler went 21 for 29 (72.4%) with a 5.6 yards per attempt vs the Saints in year 7.

JJ went 13 for 20 (65%) with a 7.2 yards per attempt vs a divisional opponent who is supposed to be the hot team in his first start of his career.

That isn't to say he is already better than Kyler, but he threw the ball down the field more, and had very similar comp% numbers.

What tools is he missing?

EDIT: I used Kyler as a comp because Kyler is generally considered an accurate NFL QB.

 

[kerouac9]

My assertion is that from 8th grade on McCarthy was getting private high level coaching which means despite him looking like a very raw kid, he's not. I compared him to Clausen, personality wise Caleb is like Clausen, people seem to not like him, but in terms of playing the position it was the same thing, Clausen had a QB coach for years before he got to ND. It made him look good when he was younger, but everyone else caught up with him.

Caleb has a better arm, much better arm, and is a much better runner. Yes he had a QB coach too my point is he has the actual tools to develop, I don't think McCarthy actually does. He has a good not great arm, I don't think he'll be horrible but I never got him going in the first round I thought it was a reach.

Caleb needs to mature and refine his mechanics, McCarthy I just don't think has the physical tools to be really good.

I think McCarthy has adequate tools to play in the NFL. No question Caleb has superior tools, but NFL teams don’t have time or capacity to fix poor mechanics.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think McCarthy has adequate tools to play in the NFL. No question Caleb has superior tools, but NFL teams don’t have time or capacity to fix poor mechanics.

or being a goof ball.

Look at Brock Purdy. He does not have special physical tools. But you put him in a good offensive environment and if he has the ability to be coached and be resilient, he has been a successful NFL QB.

 

[Chopper0080]

Tom Brady had a great convo on The Herd about this.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think McCarthy has adequate tools to play in the NFL. No question Caleb has superior tools, but NFL teams don’t have time or capacity to fix poor mechanics.

The best QB in the NFL right now is either Mahomes or Allen, both of whom had mechanics issues when they came into the league. Not saying Caleb will be at that level, I don't know if he has the right mentality, but he has the tools.

It's not exactly controversial to say Caleb is a better prospect literally 2 drafts ago a bunch of NFL GM's and scouts got together and said Caleb is the best prospect and took 4 QB's ahead of JJ, Caleb, Daniels, Maye and Penix.

I think he can be a decent NFL starter and I think he has a great situation with a terrific coach and one of the best WR's in the NFL

 

[Russ Smith]

or being a goof ball.

Look at Brock Purdy. He does not have special physical tools. But you put him in a good offensive environment and if he has the ability to be coached and be resilient, he has been a successful NFL QB.

Purdy has a quick release, that's been the biggest knock on JJ his whole career he has a windup release on his throwing motion.