Look at the stats, no doubt Rivers' stats were better, but when you take into account the team W/L records it's not enough to overcome the ratings difference IMO.
and again for a QB....Wins and Losses usually hold more weight than any other stat. now did trent dilfer deserve to be MVP....no way. but when you look at the whole package you don't just look at QB rating alone. you look at how the player played the entire season...especially in the 4th qtr of games when the games were won and lost. and I recall peyton to be very strong in those times. sadly this is not just a QB award....although it can seem like we just get lost in the QB arguements when talking about the MVP award.
so is that what this is about?
true
Please give me an example. Rivers was consistent all year. He produced more, turned it over less, had a questionable defense, spread the ball to many receivers, none of which are Marvin Harrison/Reggie Wayne caliber, his team had an historic entry into the playoffs and much more of the Chargers fortunes were on Rivers than the Colts were with Manning. Manning may have been clutch but his defense was holding teams under 20 points most of the year. That's a nice luxury to not have to score many points to win games.
Yes, but he didn't have the support of LDT and Sproles. His leading RB had 500+ yards and 6 rushing TDs, so everything relied on him. Much like it did Kurt Warner for us.
again the chargers were 4-8 after 75% of the season was done....rivers and the rest of his team had opportunities to win many of those games late in the 4th qtr and they typically lost. it's not like rivers plays with bums either...he has a good(not great) O-line. he has LT and sproles...he has the best pass catching TE in the game...and his WR's are very reliable. personnel wise this team is supposed to be the best in the AFC. so if anything they underachieved. and again they lost a lot of close games where the QB could have been more consistent in helping his team win.
He doesn't have the receivers that either the Cards or Colts have either. And Manning didn't produce much especially considering the competition that he faced for most of the 9 game streak. Give Warner or Rivers the Colts D and they would each have 12+ wins as well.
I think we've argued this back and forth enough. I do see your side of it and I agree, but it is what it is.
he deserved it. you can't just say give this guy that...nothing is given away for free. the guy earned his award....warner and rivers didn't do enough to help their team win enough games. both QB's played in close games that could have been won at the end....both guys fell short in many of those games. then for kurt he had that terrible finish down the stretch that completely took him out of the running. again this was obtainable for kurt midway through the year....moreso than it was for manning because kurt was getting more pub around the media at that point.
And you can't say that if the Cardinals defense was as good as the Colts, that we don't go at least 12-4 on the season.
trueI think we've argued this back and forth enough. I do see your side of it and I agree, but it is what it is.
The PIT and NE games were very good wins but there weren't any quality opponents the last 6 out of 7 weeks. JAX, DET, CLE, CIN, TEN(resting all of their starters). What QB wouldn't have put up 8 TD and 0 INT in that stretch?
I don't know...there is no reason to go there. if barry sanders played behind the cowboys 90's o-line they could of won another superbowl. these are the crazy things I hear people say all the time and it really doesn't mean anything. the facts are what they are. peyton IS the MVP and anyone who thinks that someone else got robbed is in the minority.
I'm not arguing that Warner should have won it so forget him. Rivers did just as much and more than Manning. Rivers can't play defense.
I don't know...I bet there are more than one would think.
this isn't an arbitrary argument and there are numbers to back up the defense argument compared to the hypothetical quality of an o-line. I think it's very easy to assume that giving up 7-10 points less per game and scoring 5+ points more than the Colts did would equate to a comparable record.
no he can't, but i watched chargers games where they had a chance to win late and they lost. again sometimes the defense gave up points on the last drive....but you look at the plays that rivers didn't make in the 4th qtr. there were times when he had a chance late in games and the offense stalled. I watched a lot of chargers games this year. now ed hocule was a different story....that game rivers and the rest of the offense did about all they could do. I do know they had a turnover or two late in that game though.
maybe so, but there is no reason to make those comparisons. you are what you are. you can't place kurt warner on the colts or rivers on the ravens etc. you can only look at the games. I watched a lot of football games this year. I watched at least every NFL team play more than once or twice this year. there is more to just individual stats or anything else. i think we are making too much of this. warner and rivers flat out do not deserve the MVP award this season. I think warner to a man himself would agree..and so would rivers. when kurt was with the rams he won the mvp award....were they not great in all aspects at that time? did that not mean that there could have been other guys that were more deserving...to include his own teammate faulk....(i know they traded the award there)...the simple fact is you don't win the award like that if you don't deserve it.
Manning doesn't come through every single time either and I think the way the Chargers and Rivers finished should carry more weight than whatever early/mid season struggles that they eventually overcame. Manning is being lauded for overcoming a crappy/coming off of injury start to this year. I think there is just a huge AFC bias and just because the Colts had to play TEN twice the fact that the Colts actually lost to them when it meant something and played absolute garbage teams the last 5 games of the year was the only reason they got in. New England was a better team they just didn't have a cream puff schedule.
I never said anyone else got robbed, but how many of the 426 points on the season did Kurt Warner give up? How many of the 298 points did Peyton Manning give up? My point is the defense has just about as much to do with a player getting the award as the player theirself. Peyton Manning was named MVP and I'm ok with that tho.
Neither am I.
again....i agree with you.....and everyone knows that this is a team award. but peyton plays on the colts and warner plays on the cards....no reason to try and say if this guy played on this team..that's all I am trying to say. because in reality you never know......those things cannot be proven...it is pure speculation at best. and this award is not about speculation....it's about on field productivity. and as you agree peyton had a very productive year.
