Major League Soccer Expansion

[Zeno]

Rumor has it MLS plans to expand by 7 teams to 20 total by 2010. I personally think thats a bit fast to add that many teams, the quality of play will suffer and currently MLS quality of play isn't the best as it is. Another rumor has the number at 16 either way here are the rumored cities...

San Diego

Vancouver

Oakland

Atlanta

Philadelphia

Seattle

2nd team in New York

We'll see whether these rumors become true or not. I really didn't expect Phoenix to be on the list, weather would be a killer but its not like the weather in Atlanta would be much more bearable--I was just there last month and the heat and humidity were awful. Supposedly they have a leg up though because their USL team has a soccer specific stadium that could be expanded without much trouble. Oakland(San Joses/Bay area) is the only one that I know of that already has an ownership group in place with the Oakland A's owner being the main investor.

 

[azsouthendzone]

who says Phoenix isn't on the list? PHX Soccer Development is currently working on a stadium site and had a meeting scheduled to pitch to MLS.

 

[Zeno]

who says Phoenix isn't on the list? PHX Soccer Development is currently working on a stadium site and had a meeting scheduled to pitch to MLS.

Supposedly its the list from a league insider. I seriously don't expect Phoenix to get a team before the Bay area, Philly or Seattle. A second team in New York only makes sense if they have anothe stadium site in place but supposedly the Mets owner is interested in building a stadium near Shea.

Vegas just had a meeting with MLS too, and they reportedly came away impressed but it wasn't one of the finalists for a franchise. The weather may have played a factor there as well.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Supposedly its the list from a league insider. I seriously don't expect Phoenix to get a team before the Bay area, Philly or Seattle. A second team in New York only makes sense if they have anothe stadium site in place but supposedly the Mets owner is interested in building a stadium near Shea.

Vegas just had a meeting with MLS too, and they reportedly came away impressed but it wasn't one of the finalists for a franchise. The weather may have played a factor there as well.

what is your source?

 

[Milgod]

I think 7 teams in 3 years is too fast. MLS have done a really good job of sustaining steady growth so far and I think they'll make the right decision. I think Phoenix would be a great place for a team though, soccer seems to be pretty popular in the area, plus there is a good hispanic population in Arizona. The weather would be a problem (although some evening matches ould be arranged maybe?).

 

[Compa]

I think it's too early to expand. They should award a franchise to San Jose / Oakland, and leave it at that for a few years. Like Zeno said, the talent pool in MLS is already shallow.

As for Phoenix potential, I heard or read an idea about putting a soccer stadium at AZ Fairgrounds (replacing the Coliseum). I think that would be a great location for a soccer stadium. Maybe someone can think of a creative way to make an open-air stadium that can stay relatively cool.

 

[Zeno]

what is your source?

Hell its not "my" source, its a rumor that supposedly is from a MLS insider.

Doesn't matter though, I really don't expect Phoenix to get an MLS team. Its just not the right climate for a summer soccer league, unless they build an indoor soccer specific stadium.

 

[slinslin]

20 is too much, most european top leagues are supposed to cut it to 18 max.

 

[Zeno]

20 is too much, most european top leagues are supposed to cut it to 18 max.

I agree. The big difference with the US leagues and Euro leagues is we don't have promotion or relegation type of leagues so that might be their thinking with having more teams. Either way 20 that fast is too much of a drain on the league, the talent isn't where it needs to be currently adding more teams. 1 more team next season makes sense if only to even the amount of teams out, then they should lay low for awhile until the quality of play increases.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Hell its not "my" source, its a rumor that supposedly is from a MLS insider.

Doesn't matter though, I really don't expect Phoenix to get an MLS team. Its just not the right climate for a summer soccer league, unless they build an indoor soccer specific stadium.

Like Houston's weather is any better. 100+ degrees and 90% humidity is a hell of a lot worse than the worst day in Phoenix. Dallas's weather sucks too. Trust me, the indoor stadium is in the works. Phoenix has as good if not a better chance than any of those cities from the rumor. Phoenix Soccer Development is currently working with MLS and Valley cities to build the stadium and the investors for ownership are already in place.

 

[Zeno]

Like Houston's weather is any better. 100+ degrees and 90% humidity is a hell of a lot worse than the worst day in Phoenix. Dallas's weather sucks too. Trust me, the indoor stadium is in the works. Phoenix has as good if not a better chance than any of those cities from the rumor. Phoenix Soccer Development is currently working with MLS and Valley cities to build the stadium and the investors for ownership are already in place.

Everyone of those other cities named has a USL team with a good following, especially Seattle(Sounders), Vancouver(Whitecaps) and Atlanta(Silverbacks). Phoenix doesn't, I used to watch the Saguaros but their fan support was terrible, they weren't USL anyway but a lower league (they played in Peoria at the spring training facility).

Seattle and Vancouver have a leg up because they are trying to establish the league in the northwest of the country and Atlanta has the leg up because the league wants a southeastern representative.

Oakland/Bay Area was basically already promised a team when San Jose left because they never lacked in fan support but lacked in facilities. They now have an ownership group in place and a stadium plan--they are almost guaranteed.

Phoenix has really nothing going for it aside from population. No established fan base and a bad choice for weather make things very difficult for a team. I'd say on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the best chance Phoenix is probably around a 3 or 4, not impossible but not very likely.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Everyone of those other cities named has a USL team with a good following, especially Seattle(Sounders), Vancouver(Whitecaps) and Atlanta(Silverbacks). Phoenix doesn't, I used to watch the Saguaros but their fan support was terrible, they weren't USL anyway but a lower league (they played in Peoria at the spring training facility).

Seattle and Vancouver have a leg up because they are trying to establish the league in the northwest of the country and Atlanta has the leg up because the league wants a southeastern representative.

Oakland/Bay Area was basically already promised a team when San Jose left because they never lacked in fan support but lacked in facilities. They now have an ownership group in place and a stadium plan--they are almost guaranteed.

Phoenix has really nothing going for it aside from population. No established fan base and a bad choice for weather make things very difficult for a team. I'd say on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the best chance Phoenix is probably around a 3 or 4, not impossible but not very likely.

USL has NOTHING to do with it. And the Sounders have a good following? They draw an average of about 3k a game. The MLS exhibition between Dallas and Columbus at Grand Canyon University with minimal to no advertising drew 4400. Minor leagues bear no factor in determining where to place MLS teams. If the USL was a factor Rochester would be in MLS.

I will tell you right now that I have several friends that work in MLS and they have told me that Philadelphia, San Jose (to bring back the Earthquakes), and Phoenix because of the large crowds they have gotten for soccer matches at Chase Field and University of Phoenix. Las Vegas is also in the mix.

Hell, the guy working to bring MLS to Phoenix, Dana Gagnon just resigned from MLS to work full time in bringing an expansion team here and is close friends with MLS President Mark Abbott. Politics comes into play as much as anything else.

Give us a 3-4 out of 10. I'll take an 8 and I'll take a chance with Phoenix and our open land, knack for developing, and our population and demographics over any of those cities any day. Tear down the fairgrounds and start over with a SSS. It will happen.

 

[Compa]

If the MLS wants more teams, why don't they simply work out a promotion/relegation deal with USL? I know that MLS doesn't want relegation, but having 2 or 3 divisions with all the teams already in existence could actually work. I think it would create more loyalty between the fans and clubs because there is a lot more at stake each game and each season.

 

[azsouthendzone]

If the MLS wants more teams, why don't they simply work out a promotion/relegation deal with USL? I know that MLS doesn't want relegation, but having 2 or 3 divisions with all the teams already in existence could actually work. I think it would create more loyalty between the fans and clubs because there is a lot more at stake each game and each season.

Could you imagine the LA Galaxy getting relegated and The Rochester Rhinos taking their place? That's why.

 

[Zeno]

Give us a 3-4 out of 10. I'll take an 8 and I'll take a chance with Phoenix and our open land, knack for developing, and our population and demographics over any of those cities any day. Tear down the fairgrounds and start over with a SSS. It will happen.

If you say so. I still think the lack of fan support in AZ for other teams will factor in as well. Arizona doesn't support very well what teams they have and adding another won't help. The Cardinals only started selling out when they unveiled a new stadium(and people complained about sitting in the heat from Sep - Oct--imagine the dead of the summer), the D-Backs attendance is poor considering how their record is this season--its hard to judge a town based on other sports followings but it will come in to play. Just because they had a decent showing for an exhibition game (which if I understand correctly the attendance was mostly youth soccer teams and their parents) doesn't mean much.

To be honest I think Phoenix deserves a team more than Salt Lake did but the other teams mentioned as possible sites make more sense for the league.

I still stand by my assertion that when the expansion teams are announced Phoenix won't be among them. One of us will be right and one of us will be wrong, we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[azsouthendzone]

If you say so. I still think the lack of fan support in AZ for other teams will factor in as well. Arizona doesn't support very well what teams they have and adding another won't help. The Cardinals only started selling out when they unveiled a new stadium(and people complained about sitting in the heat from Sep - Oct--imagine the dead of the summer), the D-Backs attendance is poor considering how their record is this season--its hard to judge a town based on other sports followings but it will come in to play. Just because they had a decent showing for an exhibition game (which if I understand correctly the attendance was mostly youth soccer teams and their parents) doesn't mean much.

To be honest I think Phoenix deserves a team more than Salt Lake did but the other teams mentioned as possible sites make more sense for the league.

I still stand by my assertion that when the expansion teams are announced Phoenix won't be among them. One of us will be right and one of us will be wrong, we'll just have to wait and see.

What is strange is that you sound as if you hope Phoenix doesnt get one.

Using USL as your guage for a site that makes sense for the league is flawed, thats all. Atlanta would be a piss poor market. San Diego? Are you serious?The rest would be OK. Vancouver has a better shot than Seattle because they have a stadium in the works. MLS wants two things. A big market and a soccer specific stadium.

Just so you know so you stop using the heat as an excuse, the stadium would have a retractable top with AC from what I've heard.

Soccer is an untapped market here. It may not sell to D-Backs fans or Cardinals fans, but it will sell to soccer fans and there are thousands here. And the youth teams at the exhibition, do they not count? It was 4400. Thats more than a Sounders game. Youth sports and group sales account for a ton of tickets in every pro sport, except maybe the NFL. That shows viability. It just seems you have something against Phoenix, like you don't think the city has paid their soccer dues or something. Either way we'll see. Even if they don't get an immediate expansion team, I could see a team relocating here at some point. It makes too much sense. If you were actually in Phoenix currently you might think differently.

 

[Zeno]

What is strange is that you sound as if you hope Phoenix doesnt get one.

Just so you know so you stop using the heat as an excuse, the stadium would have a retractable top with AC from what I've heard.

I'm just being relaistic with it. I want MLS to be succesful and for that to happen it has to have good teams and fan bases(Salt Lake is going to prove to be their worst decision--even though they are getting a new stadium). I just have my doubts about the Phoenix area really supporting a local franchise(Phoenix fans are notoriously fair weather), I could very well be wrong but I just don't see the fan base, BUT if Phoenix was to guarantee a retractable roof/AC soccer stadium thats seats around 20K it'd be the first of its kind in the country and there is no way MLS would(or should) say no.

An interesting note, did you know that MLS is drawing about 15K per match(or those were last seasons numbers bound to be more this season w/ Beckham)? Thats only 4K less a game than Italian Serie A drew per game this past season and about on par with the Dutch and Scottish Leagues. Thats pretty good in my book, increase the quality of play and it will only get better. There are still a ton of soccer fans who don't care for the product MLS puts on the field, really an untapped fan base everywhere. I love soccer but often get bored watching MLS matches, its getting better but still has a long way to go.

If Phoenix gets a MLS franchise I sure hope it works out for everyone involved, the league, the city and the team. I also hope that if it happens that the new team immediately either absorbs one of the local youth clubs or creates its own youth academy system to further develop Phoenix area talent...there is a Phoenix area kid playing on the U18 National Team as we speak, it'd be great for more kids to come through the ranks.

 

[azsouthendzone]

I'm just being relaistic with it. I want MLS to be succesful and for that to happen it has to have good teams and fan bases(Salt Lake is going to prove to be their worst decision--even though they are getting a new stadium). I just have my doubts about the Phoenix area really supporting a local franchise(Phoenix fans are notoriously fair weather), I could very well be wrong but I just don't see the fan base, BUT if Phoenix was to guarantee a retractable roof/AC soccer stadium thats seats around 20K it'd be the first of its kind in the country and there is no way MLS would(or should) say no.

An interesting note, did you know that MLS is drawing about 15K per match(or those were last seasons numbers bound to be more this season w/ Beckham)? Thats only 4K less a game than Italian Serie A drew per game this past season and about on par with the Dutch and Scottish Leagues. Thats pretty good in my book, increase the quality of play and it will only get better. There are still a ton of soccer fans who don't care for the product MLS puts on the field, really an untapped fan base everywhere. I love soccer but often get bored watching MLS matches, its getting better but still has a long way to go.

If Phoenix gets a MLS franchise I sure hope it works out for everyone involved, the league, the city and the team. I also hope that if it happens that the new team immediately either absorbs one of the local youth clubs or creates its own youth academy system to further develop Phoenix area talent...there is a Phoenix area kid playing on the U18 National Team as we speak, it'd be great for more kids to come through the ranks.

MLS attendance is definitely getting better and there should be huge crowds for Becks.

 

[Zeno]

MLS expansion

It's hard to figure out which cities could be next to get an MLS franchise. Whenever MLS commissioner Don Garber talks about expansion, his list of cities goes on and on.

I wanted to get to the bottom of this, so I asked Garber which three cities are the top candidates at the moment.

"San Jose is at the top of the list," Garber told me. "Then Philadelphia and the Pacific Northwest. The good thing about expansion is there is no deadline."

A soccer blog by Luis Arroyave (Chicago Tribune). Of course it doesn't make any mention of the 20 team thing (which I still think is lunacy if it happens within the next 10 years).

 

[azsouthendzone]

They are all over the map with their expansion comments. They basically say nothing. Expansion is a weird thing in any sport. Remember Houston getting the Texans over LA? Jacksonville getting the Jags over St. Louis? What they want is a city with a good ownership group and a soccer specific stadium. That's not always easy. If Phoenix gets it in place, they could get a team by default. I think Vancouver has a great chance. Their stadium looks awesome and remember the Galaxy is playing the Whitecaps this year.

 

[Mulli]

So I went to the Chicago Fire vs. Houston Dynamo game on Thursday night. I have to say that the talent level wasn't what I was used to. After watching the World Cup and A League Soccer, La Liga, Premiership, etc., the MLS talent level looked almost like AAA. Perhaps it is because the Fire are very good and have a new coach, but I think my expectations were too high.

Anyway it was dollar hot dog night and the other food at the stadium was nice.

They want a person to buy season tickets to get to see Beckham and the Galaxy. After watching the Fire lose 4-0 (left at 3-0) I am not ready to get season tix quite yet.

Anyone know anything about Blanco, the Mexican Striker who is joining the Fire?

 

[SECTION 11]

If the MLS wants more teams, why don't they simply work out a promotion/relegation deal with USL? I know that MLS doesn't want relegation, but having 2 or 3 divisions with all the teams already in existence could actually work. I think it would create more loyalty between the fans and clubs because there is a lot more at stake each game and each season.

I totally agree with this. USL has some talent, and personally I think this idea terrifies MLS, but it's the way it should be. I think they do need to let the league continue to establish itself first though.

 

[azsouthendzone]

So I went to the Chicago Fire vs. Houston Dynamo game on Thursday night. I have to say that the talent level wasn't what I was used to. After watching the World Cup and A League Soccer, La Liga, Premiership, etc., the MLS talent level looked almost like AAA. Perhaps it is because the Fire are very good and have a new coach, but I think my expectations were too high.

Anyway it was dollar hot dog night and the other food at the stadium was nice.

They want a person to buy season tickets to get to see Beckham and the Galaxy. After watching the Fire lose 4-0 (left at 3-0) I am not ready to get season tix quite yet.

Anyone know anything about Blanco, the Mexican Striker who is joining the Fire?

Blanco is awesome. He's a legend who played for Club America. All out scorer. The Fire suck, and the Dynamo can play with any of your A League Soccer, La Liga, Premiership, etc teams. Those leagues are so top heavy. I love how people act like those leagues are so stacked top to bottom when in reality a few teams are great and the rest suck balls. Bring Fulham FC over here to play the Dynamo, Red Bull NY, or DC United and I guarantee they'll get the **** knocked out of them. The Fire are in disarray however. They are a mess. Nice stadium and unis though.

 

[Gee!]

Whatever happened to that Freddie Adu dude? Wasnt he suppose to save American soccer or something? Havent heard anything about him in years...

 

[Zeno]

Anyone know anything about Blanco, the Mexican Striker who is joining the Fire?

Blanco is a an old, slow, whining, diver but he is skilled--smart with the ball and excellent at poaching goals. He will help out the Fire who have absolutely no offensive creativity to speak of.