lol @ how dirty the Spurs play..

[ambchang_]

I thought the assertion of Bowen being dirty, is because he does dirty plays, that sometimes injure....

That is another argument, but we have been arguing over what is a dirty play, and my definition of it is that a player does it with intention to hurt, maim or injure. I honestly don't think any of Bowen's moves were intended to injure, and the only dirty move he ever had based on that definition is that he kicked Ray Allen in the back. However, I do not see how that could possibly have injured another player.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Well, as long as you made it clear.

Wasn't you da one complainin' about someone fakin' yer quotes?

Oh and Bowen is durrrrrty.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

That is another argument, but we have been arguing over what is a dirty play, and my definition of it is that a player does it with intention to hurt, maim or injure. I honestly don't think any of Bowen's moves were intended to injure, and the only dirty move he ever had based on that definition is that he kicked Ray Allen in the back. However, I do not see how that could possibly have injured another player.

Kicking Amare's achilles seems intentional to hurt. Sliding feet under shooters the same way. You don't believe these things happened, so I won't sit here and argue them with you, but that is how a lot of people (not just Suns fans) feel.

 

[jagu]

I've played a lot of basketball and not once ever ever ever did i even accidentally kick the heel of a player going up for a layup. As a defender you think of blocking the ball by jumping up as high as possible to stop the shot. Bowen's a hack, its not even a point of argument.

 

[dodie53]

i have a friend who is a spurs fan and when i tell him that bowen plays dirty and manu flops he says that he doesn't see those things.

i wonder why is that?

homerism?

 

[ambchang_]

Wasn't you da one complainin' about someone fakin' yer quotes?

Oh and Bowen is durrrrrty.

If you haven't read the whole post, I did that back to Phade.
Since you are doing that to me, it's just fair game.

 

[ambchang_]

Kicking Amare's achilles seems intentional to hurt. Sliding feet under shooters the same way. You don't believe these things happened, so I won't sit here and argue them with you, but that is how a lot of people (not just Suns fans) feel.

The "kick" on Amare's shoe is far from his Achilles, in fact, it was so minor Amare didn't even notice it until he saw film of it. He then proceeded to not say anything about it after he realized how big a wuss it makes him look for complaining about something this minor.

Sliding the feet under shooters, I have posted how Bell hurt his ankle by stepping on Durant, I have shown how people defend jumpshots in a Rockets game, and now, I will post this:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=28032502

Check the last shot and how the jumpshot was defended. It's exactly like how Bowen defended.

These things obviously happened, just not the way people make it out to be.

 

[ambchang_]

i have a friend who is a spurs fan and when i tell him that bowen plays dirty and manu flops he says that he doesn't see those things.

i wonder why is that?

homerism?

i have a friend who is a suns fan and when i tell him that amare doesn't play smart and bell flops he says that he doesn't see those things.

i wonder why is that?

homerism?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The "kick" on Amare's shoe is far from his Achilles, in fact, it was so minor Amare didn't even notice it until he saw film of it. He then proceeded to not say anything about it after he realized how big a wuss it makes him look for complaining about something this minor.

Sliding the feet under shooters, I have posted how Bell hurt his ankle by stepping on Durant, I have shown how people defend jumpshots in a Rockets game, and now, I will post this:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=28032502

Check the last shot and how the jumpshot was defended. It's exactly like how Bowen defended.

These things obviously happened, just not the way people make it out to be.

Sure, Amare may not have been hurt by the play, and he may have barely felt it, but your definition alone should agree that it was a dirty play, whether it connected successfully or not. You don't do that, unless you are trying to hurt someone.

What Bowen has done, and what happened to Raja Bell/Kevin Durant is different. Bowen has been caught on tape looking down at his own, and his defender's feet, and then sliding his foot underneath.

 

[ambchang_]

I went through some of the ESPN highlights today, basically, whenever there is a contested jumpshot, the defender jumps into the shooter with his one of his legs kicking forward like Bruce Bowen. They may not land as close to the shooter as Bowen every time, but that is the basic way to defend a jumpshot.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=280325004 (Bibby jumpshot)
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=280325022 (previously posted, last two shots by Webster)

The other highlights don't have many jumpshots, but I will continue to post every day to show how frequent and normal it is to defend in such a way.

 

[ambchang_]

I've played a lot of basketball and not once ever ever ever did i even accidentally kick the heel of a player going up for a layup. As a defender you think of blocking the ball by jumping up as high as possible to stop the shot. Bowen's a hack, its not even a point of argument.

You are obviously Steve Nash then.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Scmx1z94WAI
So you are saying Nash is a hack, and it's not even a point of argument?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I went through some of the ESPN highlights today, basically, whenever there is a contested jumpshot, the defender jumps into the shooter with his one of his legs kicking forward like Bruce Bowen. They may not land as close to the shooter as Bowen every time, but that is the basic way to defend a jumpshot.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=280325004 (Bibby jumpshot)
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=280325022 (previously posted, last two shots by Webster)

The other highlights don't have many jumpshots, but I will continue to post every day to show how frequent and normal it is to defend in such a way.

Ok. Lets backup.

I say Bowen is dirty in part because he has kicked at Amare's achilles. You say that it isn't dirty, only because it was, in your opinion, no where near his achilles, as well as not connecting very well because it barely connected, or didn't at all. Is that about right?

If that is the case, then Shaq's haymaker against Brad Miller that missed wasn't dirty because he didn't connect and it was no where near his face, right?

 

[ambchang_]

Sure, Amare may not have been hurt by the play, and he may have barely felt it, but your definition alone should agree that it was a dirty play, whether it connected successfully or not. You don't do that, unless you are trying to hurt someone.

I don't believe Bowen had intent to hurt. He was running over stopped in his tracks to avoid hitting Stoudemire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc4yz__akIU&feature=related

He changed the direction of his foot to avoid hitting Stoudemire.

What Bowen has done, and what happened to Raja Bell/Kevin Durant is different. Bowen has been caught on tape looking down at his own, and his defender's feet, and then sliding his foot underneath.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdxXvkMB6gA (Bowen obviously tracking the ball, never looked down)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ8ubgYYEdc (Bowen never looked down)
I can't find the Carter video, but I would be interested in seeing those videos where he was caught looking down before he slid his foot.

 

[ambchang_]

Ok. Lets backup.

I say Bowen is dirty in part because he has kicked at Amare's achilles. You say that it isn't dirty, only because it was, in your opinion, no where near his achilles, as well as not connecting very well because it barely connected, or didn't at all. Is that about right?

If that is the case, then Shaq's haymaker against Brad Miller that missed wasn't dirty because he didn't connect and it was no where near his face, right?

Check my previous post. It didn't connect BECAUSE he was trying to avoid hitting Amare. Look at the tape, he changed the direction of his foot to avoid hitting Amare after looking down.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Check my previous post. It didn't connect BECAUSE he was trying to avoid hitting Amare. Look at the tape, he changed the direction of his foot to avoid hitting Amare after looking down.

Wow. Ok. I think I have maxed out my debate with you on this issue. I'll just say that a majority of NBA fans would disagree with you and your view of Bowen.

You should be a sea captain. I don't think that you'd be afraid to go down with a sinking ship.

 

[ambchang_]

Wow. Ok. I think I have maxed out my debate with you on this issue. I'll just say that a majority of NBA fans would disagree with you and your view of Bowen.

You should be a sea captain. I don't think that you'd be afraid to go down with a sinking ship.

Good one, and I do know that Bowen is being viewed as a dirty player by the majority of fans. He elbows, he hooks, he grabs, but he does not intend to hurt.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Good one, and I do know that Bowen is being viewed as a dirty player by the majority of fans. He elbows, he hooks, he grabs, but he does not intend to hurt.

Then we agree to disagree.

It was good debating with you.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Good one, and I do know that Bowen is being viewed as a dirty player by the majority of fans. He elbows, he hooks, he grabs, but he does not intend to hurt.

What about the kicking?

 

[Covert Rain]

You have changed nobody's mind as well,

You can't be that dense. Who is "nobody"? So far that is only you. You keep saying that like you have this conglomerate of people who agree with you. So who is this mythical group that agrees with you on this board?

If your the only one and you don't agree then ofcourse I have changed "nobody's" mind. The duh statement of the year.

Finally, this thread is not started by me, I merely responded to it.

Yes and you have responded to it a ton of time using the exact same arguments over and over again. You have managed to sway nobody yet continue to repost the same thing over and over. Again, this is a Suns board. Not a Spurs board. If you want people to listen to your dribble go find Spurs fans in the Smack Shack.

Logic dictates that your not going to sway anybody. Logic dictates that the majority will not be swayed and don't agree. So doesn't logic also dictate that this thread would theoretically go on forever because our views will never agree with your views? So, what is the point of repeating yourself over and over? Nothing will ever change.

Really dude...move on.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Hmmm ... if I didn't know better, I just posted a new thread on Spurstalk last night, and do consistently post on Spurs talk, but .... nevermind.

And I can't believe that there are now two immature poster, I actually thought Phade was the only one, but I suppose I have underestimated the power of some idiocy.

Dis was de thread about some guy dunkin' turkeys on youtube, no?

 

[ambchang_]

You can't be that dense. Who is "nobody"? So far that is only you. You keep saying that like you have this conglomerate of people who agree with you. So who is this mythical group that agrees with you on this board?

Since when have I said that there is a huge number of people in this thread with me? Saying that I have change nobody's mind is a moot point, and I have demonstrated that with saying that you haven't changed anybody's mind either. In fact, I would argue that I have at least show three posters that we have agreed to disagree, and I am fine with that.

If your the only one and you don't agree then ofcourse I have changed "nobody's" mind. The duh statement of the year.

So a person who is the only person in his belief must be wrong? Welcome to mob mentality.

Yes and you have responded to it a ton of time using the exact same arguments over and over again. You have managed to sway nobody yet continue to repost the same thing over and over. Again, this is a Suns board. Not a Spurs board. If you want people to listen to your dribble go find Spurs fans in the Smack Shack.

What is a point of stating something with a group of people who agree with me? I am not in a self-belief crisis where I need people who I have never met in my life approve of my views.

The Bowen is dirty topic has been around for so long, whoever have a stance in it is already entrenched. I can see why Bowen could be called dirty, and I am not looking to change how those people views. What I am doing, however, is to show those people that there is another point of view, and I can say that at least there are 3 people in this thread who can now see how I see the game.

Logic dictates that your not going to sway anybody. Logic dictates that the majority will not be swayed and don't agree. So doesn't logic also dictate that this thread would theoretically go on forever because our views will never agree with your views? So, what is the point of repeating yourself over and over? Nothing will ever change.

Really dude...move on.

So why are you repeating yourself over and over. I find it peculiar why you are lecturing me on not doing something when you are doing exactly that.

And no, logic doesn't dictate people's point of view, team allegiance does.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

And no, logic doesn't dictate people's point of view, team allegiance does.

Both logic and team allegiance dictate my point of view? Are you not the same?

 

[Covert Rain]

Since when have I said that there is a huge number of people in this thread with me? Saying that I have change nobody's mind is a moot point, and I have demonstrated that with saying that you haven't changed anybody's mind either. In fact, I would argue that I have at least show three posters that we have agreed to disagree, and I am fine with that.

Comparing the attempt at changing one persons mind...YOU...and not changing anybody's mind.....Entire Suns forum.....I would say is like comparing apples to oranges. The fact that people are agreeing to disagree still means they don't agree with you. I was wrong...you really are that dense.

So a person who is the only person in his belief must be wrong? Welcome to mob mentality.

No welcome to the blind homerism mentality.

What is a point of stating something with a group of people who agree with me? I am not in a self-belief crisis where I need people who I have never met in my life approve of my views.

What is the point in beating your point to death when you know nobody will agree with you or change your mind? You could just as easily to the classy thing and also say "Then we will agree to disagree" and then move on and contribute elsewhere. You have not. So, I think it's safe to assume your a troll trying to get a rise out of Suns fans.

PS.

Thank god for the move of the thread. Thank you Mods.

You can beat a dead horse but the horse still stinks until you bury him!

 

[ambchang_]

Both logic and team allegiance dictate my point of view? Are you not the same?

I should have been clearer, logic had nothing to do with the views regarding whether Bowen is dirty or not at the end of the discussion. I felt those were not dirty moves, and you do, it has everything to do with team allegiance.

 

[ambchang_]

Comparing the attempt at changing one persons mind...YOU...and not changing anybody's mind.....Entire Suns forum.....I would say is like comparing apples to oranges. The fact that people are agreeing to disagree still means they don't agree with you. I was wrong...you really are that dense.

You were wrong frequently in this thread, and there was it one more time. Do you not already get me the first, second and third time? This has nothing to do with changing people's minds, the whole point is to allow other people to see your point of view.

Nobody in their right minds would go in a Suns forum, and expect fans not to like the Suns anymore because of what they said, and regular poster in the forum could not expect to change the visitor's mind as well.

Let me spell it out for you because you obviously have no ability to understanding it without me doing so. Whether or not anybody changed their minds is absolutely no indication of how valid each side is. You are not going to change my mind, and I am not going to change yours.

No welcome to the blind homerism mentality.

And I am sure you are not a hater. Because in your point of view, it is perfectly OK to view the world with purple and orange glasses, that is considered normal, any view that does not align with yours is being blind homer.

What is the point in beating your point to death when you know nobody will agree with you or change your mind? You could just as easily to the classy thing and also say "Then we will agree to disagree" and then move on and contribute elsewhere. You have not. So, I think it's safe to assume your a troll trying to get a rise out of Suns fans.

I already did, so perhaps you should take your own advice and agree to disagree? I can't help it that there are dozens of posters continuing the argument.

PS.

Thank god for the move of the thread. Thank you Mods.

You can beat a dead horse but the horse still stinks until you bury him!

This is the fourth time you talked about beating a dead horse. Perhaps you can stop beating THIS horse.