Listening to Jureki and Lewis...

[Russ Smith]

Green was fired, which means he was due the balance of his contract. He sat out and collected those two years because the money was massive. Had he sought and taken another coaching job, he would've forfeited that money. Once that time was over, he immediately interviewed for three jobs and got one. So, to say "no one would hire him" is less than accurate.

Actually Green resigned with one game left in Minnesota, he wasn't officially fired. I do think that they negotiated some sort of settlement and I think you ARE right that if he'd have taken another coaching job, he would have forfeited that money.

In essence he quit before they could fire him.

 

[ajcardfan]

true but this was a totally different team at home. While none of the wins were blowouts, they weren't flukes either. We weren't winning on lucky plays against Green Bay, SF etc.

We were for whatever reason at least competitive in most of our home games, and non competitive in most of the road games.

That's where I'm counting on Green making a difference, getting this team ready to play each week.

The Green Bay win was the best one.

Cincy was solid, but there were a couple of penalties (and noncalls) late in that one that easily could've gone the other way. SF, their kicker was horrible. Even an average kicker and we lose that game. Minny would fit most people's defnition of "fluke". On the other hand, we were one play away from beating St. Louis and Carolina.

 

[Gee!]

I think MJ is just mad that his friends (Mac and Kendall) got the boot. No more free food. Wwwaaaa. Funny how Gambo and Ash have stopped with their nonstop anti-Cards assualt now. MJ just wants free food and buddys to laugh it up with. Gambo and Ash want to see a winner. And it really is too early to even have this debate as some have said here, so why is the Cards insider doing it on the radio then? Thats my take on it.

 

[Espo]

Green was fired, which means he was due the balance of his contract. He sat out and collected those two years because the money was massive. Had he sought and taken another coaching job, he would've forfeited that money. Once that time was over, he immediately interviewed for three jobs and got one. So, to say "no one would hire him" is less than accurate.

I appologize for my inaccuracy on that. I was just trying to make a my point that I don't care what his past track record his I'm not going to blindly follow everything Coach Green does. I want to be objective and I want to question the moves. Am I a little bit of a darksider, no doubt, but i also love this team and want to see them win in the worst way. I think it's tough for anyone in the media to report something without some sort of bias though. I think that in time if Green wins the media will get behind him and the cardinals will get better press but until then I'm not necessarily sure that they deserve anymore attention than they get.

 

[Russ Smith]

The Green Bay win was the best one.

Cincy was solid, but there were a couple of penalties (and noncalls) late in that one that easily could've gone the other way. SF, their kicker was horrible. Even an average kicker and we lose that game. Minny would fit most people's defnition of "fluke". On the other hand, we were one play away from beating St. Louis and Carolina.

For some reason I keep forgetting that Minnesota game was at home, you're right that was a fluke.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Sure a lot of babies going "waaaaa" these days.

 

[KingofCards]

Q: Where is the actual proof that Graves and Wylie were not consulted before cutting Kendall? Are either on the record confirmimg this?

Probably something Jurecki heard but can't provide a source.

 

[Tangodnzr]

I think your line of thinking is simply amazing Tango. You are able to defend one of the NFL's worst teams for the past half a century on their previous moves. Most people from other teams would laugh at your conclusions. We would be managing the cap even better with your line of thinking if we signed even lesser players than we have already for less pay! We had the worst defense and worst offense last year! I think most teams could manage the cap well if that is all they were aspiring to. I think it's much easier to manage the cap when most of your players haven't proven anything on the field.

Try to follow along now.....

your exaggerations are simply underwhelming!!!

My comments have primarily been in response to 40yr saying everything "good" happened in just the last two years. That's all. What exactly is YOUR agenda anyway?

Where did I "defend one of the worst teams in the last half century"?

If you want to debate a point, at least be accurate. This is immature "schoolboy" stuff. (whatever your age is).

I don't think " 'most people' would laugh at my comments." And furthermore...if they are "most people from other teams"...I could give a Rats Ass what their opinions MIGHT be...since they probably don't know diddly squat about the dynamics of THIS team the past few years.
My comments are simply pointing out certain events that have transpired the past few years.
So YOU don't agree. Tough shift. That's your opinion.. (or are YOU now "most people"??)

Additionally your putting words in my mouth via YOUR interpretaition is alsol Jr. High.
My "line of thinking" evidently seems something you have yet to get a grasp of.

Where did I say, or anyone imply...that having good cap management was the ONLY thing the Cards were concerned about?
Do you actually read and think about some of this trash you spew out before you post?

And what does a "players performance on the field" directly have to do with cap management?

"Cap management" as far as I know, is something entirely different from proper evaluation of talent by the coaching staff, or the effectiveness of the staff once a "talent" has been selected.

Amazing, simply amazing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Try to follow along now.....

your exaggerations are simply underwhelming!!!

My comments have primarily in response to 40yr saying everything "good" happened in just the last two years.

Where did I "defend one of the worst teams in the last half century"?

If you want to debate a point, at least be accurate. This is immature "schoolboy" stuff. (whatever your age is).

I don't think " 'most people' would laugh at my comments." And furthermore...if they are "most people from other teams"...I could give a Rats Ass what their opinions MIGHT be...since they probably don't know diddly squat about the dynamics of THIS team the past few years.
My comments are simply pointing out certain events that have transpired the past few years.
So YOU don't agree. Tough shift. That's your opinion.. (or are YOU now "most people"

Additionally your putting words in my mouth via YOUR interpretaition is alsol Jr. High.
My "line of thinking" evidently seems something you have yet to get a grasp of.

Where did I say, or anyone imply...that having good cap management was the ONLY thing the Cards were concerned about?
Do you actually read and think about some of this trash you spew out before you post?

And what does a "players performance on the field" directly have to do with cap management?

"Cap management" as far as I know, is something entirely different from proper evaluation of talent by the coaching staff, or the effectiveness of the staff once a "talent" has been selected.

Amazing, simply amazing.

the bad Tango is back. Arfe you saying that during last offseason and during last season and even the 10 game collapse the year before you weren't defending Mac and Graves as we became the undoubted laughingstock of the league. I mean come on now Tango - hell I even remember you calling e on the carpet because I had the audacity to say that NE had better talent evaluators than we did. You gotta admit that during the laast two years - you defended this team pretty hard in the face of pretty damning evidence of complete ineptitude on the field and in the coaching staff/talent evaluation process.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Probably something Jurecki heard but can't provide a source.

So it may be KENDALL's parting shot before he left town

 

[SECTION 11]

So it may be KENDALL's parting shot before he left town

It certainly could have been.

 

[Russ Smith]

So it may be KENDALL's parting shot before he left town

I think I posted it last week, when Schlereth talked about Kendall signing with the Jets he said his sources around the league were stunned that pete was cut, said most felt he was the best OL the Cards had, and that rumor was the new OL coach(Wylie) was informed of the move AFTER Kendall had been cut.

pretty sure I posted that last week but maybe I forgot to.

 

[cardsunsfan]

Try to follow along now.....

your exaggerations are simply underwhelming!!!

My comments have primarily been in response to 40yr saying everything "good" happened in just the last two years. That's all. What exactly is YOUR agenda anyway?

Where did I "defend one of the worst teams in the last half century"?

If you want to debate a point, at least be accurate. This is immature "schoolboy" stuff. (whatever your age is).

I don't think " 'most people' would laugh at my comments." And furthermore...if they are "most people from other teams"...I could give a Rats Ass what their opinions MIGHT be...since they probably don't know diddly squat about the dynamics of THIS team the past few years.
My comments are simply pointing out certain events that have transpired the past few years.
So YOU don't agree. Tough shift. That's your opinion.. (or are YOU now "most people"??)

Additionally your putting words in my mouth via YOUR interpretaition is alsol Jr. High.
My "line of thinking" evidently seems something you have yet to get a grasp of.

Where did I say, or anyone imply...that having good cap management was the ONLY thing the Cards were concerned about?
Do you actually read and think about some of this trash you spew out before you post?

And what does a "players performance on the field" directly have to do with cap management?

"Cap management" as far as I know, is something entirely different from proper evaluation of talent by the coaching staff, or the effectiveness of the staff once a "talent" has been selected.

Amazing, simply amazing.

I think many people on here laugh at your "evaluations" or just think you're an idiot. You are always complaining about other people misinterpreting what you are saying, why is that? If I put a poll up asking people on here if they felt you made a lot of idiotic statements I think many would vote yes. You rip on more people on this board than anybody who isn't banned and after awhile it grows tiring.... I think most would agree with that.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I think I posted it last week, when Schlereth talked about Kendall signing with the Jets he said his sources around the league were stunned that pete was cut, said most felt he was the best OL the Cards had, and that rumor was the new OL coach(Wylie) was informed of the move AFTER Kendall had been cut.

pretty sure I posted that last week but maybe I forgot to.

Thanks, Russ...

the key word being.... "rumor...." or "rumour" for us up north...

 

[40yearfan]

Try to follow along now.....

your exaggerations are simply underwhelming!!!

My comments have primarily been in response to 40yr saying everything "good" happened in just the last two years. That's all. What exactly is YOUR agenda anyway?

Where did I "defend one of the worst teams in the last half century"?

If you want to debate a point, at least be accurate. This is immature "schoolboy" stuff. (whatever your age is).

I don't think " 'most people' would laugh at my comments." And furthermore...if they are "most people from other teams"...I could give a Rats Ass what their opinions MIGHT be...since they probably don't know diddly squat about the dynamics of THIS team the past few years.
My comments are simply pointing out certain events that have transpired the past few years.
So YOU don't agree. Tough shift. That's your opinion.. (or are YOU now "most people"??)

Additionally your putting words in my mouth via YOUR interpretaition is alsol Jr. High.
My "line of thinking" evidently seems something you have yet to get a grasp of.

Where did I say, or anyone imply...that having good cap management was the ONLY thing the Cards were concerned about?
Do you actually read and think about some of this trash you spew out before you post?

And what does a "players performance on the field" directly have to do with cap management?

"Cap management" as far as I know, is something entirely different from proper evaluation of talent by the coaching staff, or the effectiveness of the staff once a "talent" has been selected.

Amazing, simply amazing.

C'mon Tango. Sit back, relax and have a stiff drink. Don't take things so seriously. Everyone's entitled to their opinions and you shouldn't get upset because they vary widely from yours.

Remember, it's only football.

 

[NJYAJ09]

We should have kept Kendall!

*smashes cookie*

 

[Tangodnzr]

Cheesy, I STILL maintain that Mac gets unfairly raked over the coals in regard to "talent evaluation".

I HAVE maintained all along that I don't think it was as bad as a some people here claim.

Although what "I" mean by talent evaluation here refers more to draft selection than the handling of players that ARE on the team.

I sincerely think that if the Cards were indeed, as you say...the "laughing stock of the league". Just exactly whom might that be? people like fans or sportwriters in other cities that really don't have much first hand knowledge of what's going on here? What do they really know?
I would venture to say any laughing stock labels the Cards may have acquired would probable be due more to their performance on the field. As to the "teams" themselves.....show me where any Cardinal "rejects" were significantly any less tried out by other teams than anyone else's?

Now I can agree that I think Mac was too conservative in not wanting to rush new players into starting positions, (and again this is my "educated guess"). I'd say it was a combination of feeling veteran players were usually going to perform better than "rookies". ..and that pushing young players too fast did no one that much good. Now whether people agree with those ideas or not...is a matter of opinion, that can be legitimately debated, IMO.

I also have been on record since early last season as saying it didn't take long to demonstrate that Jerry Sullivan was a duck out of water as an OC.
Likewise, I was always one of those who questioned the coaching ability of some of the coaches, especially Joe Greene.

I still don't think this team is as talent poor as some claim. I think the biggest knock that can be legitimately made on Mac was "his" failure to insure that the talent they did have got properly developed. Some did.....some didn't.
I don't think we did..then or now...lack for "talent" at WR or LB.
Or even O-line, and RB.
The DL was grossly under or non coached.
The talent WAS definitely lacking in the secondary.

I think Jeff Fitzgerald, Tyke Tolbert, Johnny Roland, and Jerry Sullivan (as WR coach), WERE good coaches. Sullivan stunk as an OC. You can have all the talent in the world, but if you have a chinese fire drill for planning it goes for naught.

I also think Mac can legitimately be criticised for his game day management.
Especially on offense. (hello again Jerry Sullivan/ Geep Chryst).

Mack was never an "offensive guy". And I do think he made some bad decisiions in allowing some people to have more "control' than they probably should have. But there...he made his own bed...so thus he had to "sleep in it".

With a more productive DL, who knows, maybe even Marmie was not quite as bad a "defensive schemer" as some make him out to be. As has been pointed out soooo many times in the past....the ineffective pass rush just multiplied the problems of our weak secondary.

 

[joeshmo]

*smashes cookie*

Why would you do that to a perfectly good cookie.

 

[Russ Smith]

Thanks, Russ...

the key word being.... "rumor...." or "rumour" for us up north...

And of course that doesn't mean Schlereth's "source" isn't Kendall himself, they played the same position afterall.

Supposedly Schlereth was asked on ESPN radio about Matt Lepsis, the new LT of the Broncos, in defending Lepsis he brought up Kendall being cut, getting lots of interest, and signing with the jets as an example of how rare it is for good OL's to get cut in the NFL(I guess the caller had asked if Denver would be able to pick up a better LT somewhere before the season started.)

It absolutely could have been kendall planting this rumor, or it could be true, we have no way of knowing. hell it could be GREEN planting the rumor to instill more fear. I don't agree with the move but I DO agree it got people's attention.

I still think in the end it comes down to having the talent, hell if losing in the exhibitions didn't wake up the US mens basketball team enough, why would cutting Kendall do that for us? In the end, the basketball team needs more shooters(and more time together) and we need more talent on the OL, which is why to me cutting kendall made no sense.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Also...neither do I buy that the team quit on Mac.

I never saw that. Recently last years Seattle game seems to be brought up by some as one of the examples of that. I've watched replays of that game twice...and I don't see it.

I think thats mostlyjust some people's bandwagon, knee-jerk, twisting things to fit their own prejudiced take, type thing.

Now, again, was the team always as well prepared, especially on the road, as they should have been? Now THAT I would consider a very legitimate question....and possibly one of the leading reasons why Mac is no longer here.

Most of the team, for better or worse, would have done a lot for Mac. Quit is not a word I think legitimately applies.

 

[AZCB34]

Probably something Jurecki heard but can't provide a source.

Believe what you want or not, no skin off my back. Mostly these rumors prove to be pretty close to true. Jurecki is close to this organization with his job on Cards broadcasts so he is not going to float "bad" info. I am not defending what he has said but merely repeated what he said this AM. I got the impression as he was telling the kendall being cut story that Wylie himself told Jurecki he didn't know anything about it until he heard it driving up to camp.

Again. You don't like Jurecki, turn the dial. You don't believe him, ignore threads like this.

 

[KingofCards]

Believe what you want or not, no skin off my back. Mostly these rumors prove to be pretty close to true. Jurecki is close to this organization with his job on Cards broadcasts so he is not going to float "bad" info. I am not defending what he has said but merely repeated what he said this AM. I got the impression as he was telling the kendall being cut story that Wylie himself told Jurecki he didn't know anything about it until he heard it driving up to camp.

Again. You don't like Jurecki, turn the dial. You don't believe him, ignore threads like this.

Ok.

All I said was that it was probably something Jurecki said without submitting his source.

That was true, no? Wasn't attempting to discredit what you heard him say someone else said.

 

[Tangodnzr]

I think many people on here laugh at your "evaluations" or just think you're an idiot.
So what? I think "many people" here are classless schoolboys, or act like it...a bunch of mindless lemmings.
You are always complaining about other people misinterpreting what you are saying, why is that?
Well, for starters, when I DO say that (not always...another exaggeration) it's because that's what it appears to me. Lately this board has proven time and time again, that there's a certain "groupy" mentality with certain people here.

If I put a poll up asking people on here if they felt you made a lot of idiotic statements I think many would vote yes.

Again...so what? Isn't that about like asking Dubya Bush if he thinks John Kerry should be president...or visa versa? Its no state secret that there's a group of people here that don't like some of the things I sometimes say. So what? Once again YOU say "idiotic"...that's YOUR opinion.


You rip on more people on this board than anybody who isn't banned and after awhile it grows tiring....

If it really bothers you that much, put me on ignore. Frankly I don't have any agenda to get on ANYONE'S case.(unlike you and possibly a few others)

Most of any "ripping" I do, is just like here...now...where YOU were the one that started with the insults and I just called you on it. You jumped into the "conversation" by comparing a 4-14 record to "cap management" ..and I responded by telling you why I disagreed adding my "amazing" line....then came your condesending remarks and exaggerations. Once again, as so often has happened in the past, you seem more intent on trying to jerk my chain than in having a truely intelligent conversation....so what else is new?

I think most would agree with that.

Once again, that's nothing more than YOUR opinion...no matter how much you try to spin it otherwise

QED

 

[KingofCards]

Jurecki has been known to be wrong. Therefore, I take what he says with interest but certainly do not consider him a flawless source in regards to the inner workings of the Cards front office.

 

[ajcardfan]

Ok.

All I said was that it was probably something Jurecki said without submitting his source.

That was true, no? Wasn't attempting to discredit what you heard him say someone else said.

People are already getting wound up too tight over Green and are overreacting. This is like one of the old Plummer threads.

I guess it's not surprising, many of the same personalities are involved. It's just not too fun to have sentences taken out of context and get labels like "Jake Basher" or "Green apologist". Or, being told "don't read it if you don't like it", or "turn the dial". That sort of stuff kills dialogue and leads to namecalling eventually.