Lakers "luck"

Discussion in 'Phoenix Suns' started by Peter Sheldon, May 15, 2019.

  1. Peter Sheldon

    Peter Sheldon Free Agent

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    This is by no means a thorough investigation, but I was looking at the Lakers
    lottery top 10 picks since 1994. I am not sure if any of these involved trades
    that were picks from other teams. Maybe somebody can enlighten me.

    year, standings rank, pick number
    ---------------------------------
    1994 10 10
    2014 6 7
    2015 4 2
    2016 2 2
    2017 3 2
    2019 13 4

    sure is nice to be a Laker, never having to worry about getting screwed in the lottery.
    I wonder what the statistical odds are of such "luck".

    It would be interesting to see the same chart for the Suns,
    but I can be sure it would be depressing as hell.
     
  2. Hoop Head

    Hoop Head Señor Caca Cabeza Contributor

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    Welcome to hell! Here is how the Suns faired in that same time frame....
    Like you, I listed draft year, position in reverse standings, and where they picked.

    2002 - 9th & 9th
    2004 - 6th & 7th
    2008 - 14th & 14th
    2011 - 13th & 13th
    2012 - 13th & 13th
    2013 - 4th & 5th
    2014 - 14th & 14th
    2015 - 13th & 13th
    2016 - 4th & 4th
    2017 - 2nd & 4th
    2018 - 1st & 1st
    2019 - 3rd & 6th


    In the 12 lottery drawings the Suns have been in over the last 20 years they have stayed where their record indicated they should be 8 times, fallen back 4 times, and have not moved up once.


    Welcome to the board! As a Suns fan you will find plenty of fans here who understand how hard it can be to root for the unluckiest team in all major American sports.
     
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  3. Peter Sheldon

    Peter Sheldon Free Agent

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    Thanks for the greetings. The Suns results over the years are better than I expected.
     
  4. Hoop Head

    Hoop Head Señor Caca Cabeza Contributor

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    I expected worse also but I guess not being in the lottery in the 90's helped keep it a little better than I suspected and staying even helped as well. Still, to think that in 12 lottery appearances we haven't moved up even 1 spot 1 time is a bit nuts, especially compared to the Lakers who move up every time they're in the lottery, it seems.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  5. AzStevenCal

    AzStevenCal ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    Yeah they really aren't that bad at all. It's more a lack of good luck than it is a run of the bad stuff. And welcome to the board.
     
  6. BC867

    BC867 Long time Phoenician! Contributor

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    The old Suns mantra -- put on a good show at home, don't embarrass yourself on the road and make the playoffs.

    Jerry Colangelo worked it well. And it fit the small Phoenix market. But never a contender to be strong in the playoffs.
     
  7. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    IIRC, this was Cotton's philosophy about how to make the playoffs. Win at home and play .500 on the road.

    Colangelo realized the Suns were not ready to be a contender in the early years but he promised to always put an exciting product on the floor.

    If Colangelo could have bought a championship while he owned the Suns, he would have... like he did with the Diamondbacks.
     
  8. BC867

    BC867 Long time Phoenician! Contributor

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    It existed for more than any other Head Coach throughout John MacLeod's long tenure. That is when they established themselves as a "finesse" team.

    Ironically, when Cotton coached the KC/Omaha Kings and lost his Point Guard and Shooting Guard to injury, he eliminated the Suns in the playoff by
    starting two Centers and three Forwards, instead of going weaker.

    Cotton knew that, when it counted the most, power beat finesse. It is why he said, "We need someone like Charles Barkley." when he later coached the Suns.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  9. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    The Suns were a finesse team almost by necessity. They were not blesses to get Kareem or David Robinson.

    Remember Rick Robey...which I know you do. They tried to get tougher upfront.
     
  10. Ouchie-Z-Clown

    Ouchie-Z-Clown I'm better than Mulli!

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    They were always trying. Drafting joe Barry carol, trading for hot rod, signing luc longley. The narrative that JC wasn’t interested in big men is a fallacy. JC tried repeatedly and just came up short. Few and far between were dominant centers that changed teams in JCs heyday.
     
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  11. cheesebeef

    cheesebeef Registered User Contributor

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    and tried to trade barkley for Dikembe but the trade ended up falling through. And we tried to trade for Mourning the season he got traded to the Heat. And they made bad trades for guys like the X-man who was supposed to bring grit to the team... and drafted stiffs like Jake Tsakilidis.

    But none of that matters to BC who continues to act like the Suns had opportunities to draft Shaq (team wasn't in the lotto) or Kareem/David Robinson (lost the coin flip) and just decided not to, while ignoring that up until Sarver took over the Suns had the 4th best winning percentage of ALL TIME during Jerry's reign over the team.
     
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  12. slinslin

    slinslin Welcome to Amareca

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    Suns have all time moved down a total of -2 spots
    Lakers have all time moved up a total of +9 spots (only 3 or 4 teams have moved up more and those were in the lottery more often)

    Suns have not been THAT screwed because they have not been in the high lottery that much. Minnesota is something like -19.
     
  13. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    And of course the tragic death of Nick Vanos.
     
  14. BC867

    BC867 Long time Phoenician! Contributor

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    Rick Robey was a 3rd string Center on the Celtics when we obtained him. 3rd string!

    The problem was that the late John MacLeod tied up the Center spot with his 212 lb. string bean from Oklahoma (whom he coached) for a decade. And Jerry went
    along with it. That is why we were a finesse team. Robey became our starting Power Forward, which meant de-facto Center. Too bad he was 3rd string material.

    Then, for quite a while, we had Mark West who, at 6'10-240, seemed to fit the bill but he never learned how to stay out of foul trouble and wasn't there when we
    needed him.

    The Suns were not a finesse by necessity. It was by choice. It became Jerry's safe haven. And regarding Kareem or the Admiral, there's that all-or-nothing again.
     
  15. BC867

    BC867 Long time Phoenician! Contributor

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    4th best winning percentage of all time. And never became a Championship contender. Colangelo and MacLeod were evidently content to finish the regular season with a good record. Despite the growth of the City of Phoenix to the most populated State Capital city in the country, the team leaders never advanced to the next step.

    The Suns acted like a light team, because that was the mentality of its leaders. They obviously never had what it to took to succeed beyond that. That is the history.
     

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