Kingsbury's Air Raid

football karma

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I hope this is the case. There are some things that make me skeptical. For example, there no reason we can't use more motion and move guys around. These things help Kyler so I can't see any reason to play the way we do.

Which makes me believe that this is just how Kliff is, which is concerning.

weird thing: they used motion in 2019 quite a bit

Pre-snap motion has given the Ravens an edge. Why don't more teams use it? (espn.com)

this says that through week 13 or so in 2019, the Cards were 7th overall in terms of motion at the snap

why did they go away from it? (and this doesnt support my "lack of offseason" theory)
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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remind me... are wins and losses decided by offensive yards at the end? Or points?



In 2005 our offense was ranked #8 in the league in yards. Our defense was ranked 8th in the league in yards. Our record was 5-11. Our Head Coach was a lousy Dennis Green. Bottom line, the yardage stats can be deceiving and are in no way proof your coach is good.



it’s even more meaningless when the offense isn’t scoring points commensurate with gaining those yards.

last time I looked, that’s how games are decided. Not by gaining more yards, but by having more points than the other team. We rank 14th in ppg last year. We ranked 16th the year before that.

mediocre numbers for offense. Just barely above league average.
Sure points are what matters, but it takes yards to get points. This team was exceptional for most of last season in the red zone, but fell off later on. We will see if they can get back to early season form this year.
 

Krangthebrain

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I mean, I guess I'm close to feeling like all of those things are that way, but not really.

I think Keim can't draft but credit him for being very solid with trades.
I think the draft might net some alright players but overall was misguided at the top, solid later on.
I think Kliff sucks but will get a chance to be an NFL OC and will have some strong years when he can just focus on refining his offensive scheme and not the things that come with being HC.
I think FA acquired some okay players, some terrible ones, and getting Hudson was great, and understand to some degree our approach was hamstrung by a pandemic. But it's very old and not all of those guys will hold up.

All in all, I think both the short term and long term future of this franchise feels very much like it's treading water. With the current personnel, coaching, and strategy, we'll be somewhere between 6-11 and 10-7 (did I do that right? 17 games hurting my brain) every year. Just barely enough to hunt for a wild card and first round exit.

You say Keim sucks and Kliff sucks and yet the team was on fire through the first half of the season and squandered away a playoff position.

Both of those statements CAN'T be fully true. There is much more nuance to it.

I think Keim is largely decent in free agency and mostly robs teams in trades. His draft record is uneven; he has had some notable hits and quite a few misses.

Kingsbury has been good at times, and the numbers largely demonstrate that the Cardinals have a good offense. But he has had some notable gaffes. What we don't know is how much the issues they have at times are related to talent (Keim), inexperience (Kyler), or coaching (Kliff).

My thing is I think Kyler is the reason the passing game is lagging. I think the mental aspect of the game and his shortcomings at throwing intermediate routes really hurts this team. Teams figured out to play seven man fronts with all the linebackers and safeties clogging the shallow routes and force Kyler to either beat them on intermediate throws. The deep shots werent there because teams often brought pressure.

It's hard to scheme against that; Kyler has to be able to take what the defense is giving him and make them pay for playing those schemes against him.
 

BritCard

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I mean, I guess I'm close to feeling like all of those things are that way, but not really.

I think Keim can't draft but credit him for being very solid with trades.
I think the draft might net some alright players but overall was misguided at the top, solid later on.
I think Kliff sucks but will get a chance to be an NFL OC and will have some strong years when he can just focus on refining his offensive scheme and not the things that come with being HC.
I think FA acquired some okay players, some terrible ones, and getting Hudson was great, and understand to some degree our approach was hamstrung by a pandemic. But it's very old and not all of those guys will hold up.

All in all, I think both the short term and long term future of this franchise feels very much like it's treading water. With the current personnel, coaching, and strategy, we'll be somewhere between 6-11 and 10-7 (did I do that right? 17 games hurting my brain) every year. Just barely enough to hunt for a wild card and first round exit.

I was just kidding. You kinda have a reputation now :)

You are our E
weird thing: they used motion in 2019 quite a bit

Pre-snap motion has given the Ravens an edge. Why don't more teams use it? (espn.com)

this says that through week 13 or so in 2019, the Cards were 7th overall in terms of motion at the snap

why did they go away from it? (and this doesnt support my "lack of offseason" theory)

I noticed it in Kirk's stats too. He had 10 carries off (off sweeps I assume) at 9.7 YPA in 2019. He had 2 in 2020 at 1.5 YPA.

I don't know why they would move away from something that netter 9.5 YPA the year before.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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You say Keim sucks and Kliff sucks and yet the team was on fire through the first half of the season and squandered away a playoff position.

Both of those statements CAN'T be fully true. There is much more nuance to it.

I think Keim is largely decent in free agency and mostly robs teams in trades. His draft record is uneven; he has had some notable hits and quite a few misses.

Kingsbury has been good at times, and the numbers largely demonstrate that the Cardinals have a good offense. But he has had some notable gaffes. What we don't know is how much the issues they have at times are related to talent (Keim), inexperience (Kyler), or coaching (Kliff).

My thing is I think Kyler is the reason the passing game is lagging. I think the mental aspect of the game and his shortcomings at throwing intermediate routes really hurts this team. Teams figured out to play seven man fronts with all the linebackers and safeties clogging the shallow routes and force Kyler to either beat them on intermediate throws. The deep shots werent there because teams often brought pressure.

It's hard to scheme against that; Kyler has to be able to take what the defense is giving him and make them pay for playing those schemes against him.
5-3 = “on fire” ??? With losses to the lions and panthers?

ironically I think kylers ability to run has masked a lot of kliffs and other players deficiencies. Wasn’t a mistake that we couldn’t do crap when his rushing disappeared. See? Not so difficult to come up with a reason why keim and kliff can fail but the team can have some success.
 

kerouac9

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5-3 = “on fire” ??? With losses to the lions and panthers?

ironically I think kylers ability to run has masked a lot of kliffs and other players deficiencies. Wasn’t a mistake that we couldn’t do crap when his rushing disappeared. See? Not so difficult to come up with a reason why keim and kliff can fail but the team can have some success.

To be fair, we were 5-2 at one point and we'd beaten Washington, the Jets, and the Giants decisively. A lot of people at the time were saying that we were coming off the softest part of our schedule and actually would need another win or two — that turns out to be correct.

Kyler's running ability masked a lot of problems with the offense, including his inability to progress much as a passer in his second season.
 

cheesebeef

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5-3 = “on fire” ??? With losses to the lions and panthers?

ironically I think kylers ability to run has masked a lot of kliffs and other players deficiencies. Wasn’t a mistake that we couldn’t do crap when his rushing disappeared. See? Not so difficult to come up with a reason why keim and kliff can fail but the team can have some success.

they were 6-3. with wins against the Seahawks and the Bills, both very good teams at the time they played them. It was after that they collapsed.

and I think the offense was on fire because Kyler was running wild and defenses hadn't adjusted. When they did, we became painfully mediocre on offense.
 

kerouac9

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they were 6-3. with wins against the Seahawks and the Bills, both very good teams at the time they played them. It was after that they collapsed.

and I think the offense was on fire because Kyler was running wild and defenses hadn't adjusted. When they did, we became painfully mediocre on offense.

I think that the season turned on the loss to Miami, who turned out to be pretty good but Kyler got shown up by Tua, who turns out to maybe not be that good?
 

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I think that the season turned on the loss to Miami, who turned out to be pretty good but Kyler got shown up by Tua, who turns out to maybe not be that good?

you think? We were coming off major mojo beating the Bills to go 6-3 and Kyler was like a video game in the second half even before the Hail Mary. That loss to the Dolphins definitely was the difference in us getting to the playoffs though. And of course, we made Tua look great. That's what Cardinals defenses routinely do to rookies who otherwise do next to nothing all season.

I expect Trevor Lawrence to go nuts against us in Game 3 and people will be saying "He's arrived!" only to stink for the next four games after.
 

DVontel

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I think that the season turned on the loss to Miami, who turned out to be pretty good but Kyler got shown up by Tua, who turns out to maybe not be that good?
A Vance Joseph-coached defense really let Tua have a career day. Arguably his only career day, too. With his WR2 gone for a half & half of their coaches not available. Hilarious.
 

Krangthebrain

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5-3 = “on fire” ??? With losses to the lions and panthers?

ironically I think kylers ability to run has masked a lot of kliffs and other players deficiencies. Wasn’t a mistake that we couldn’t do crap when his rushing disappeared. See? Not so difficult to come up with a reason why keim and kliff can fail but the team can have some success.

As your broseph said, 6-3 and the Cardinals were getting constant hype from the national media.

As to your other point, Kyler wasn't the only reason the team was playing well.

The defense went from a bottom three unit to a middle of the pack unit. That doesn't happen if the GM is total trash.

And even with Kyler's ability to run, the team is probably hurt more by his inability to complete intermediate level passes. He's pretty much a dumpster fire at midrange passing.

I just don't buy this fake narrative that Keim & Kingsbury totally suck. It's divorced from the reality that both are pretty much 8-8 at their job.
 

kerouac9

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Keim's record as GM: 65-61-2

Mediocre, but not HORRIBLE.

I bet his record as GM is the best in Cardinals history. That's sad.

On another thread, I think Cheese did a comparison and Keim's record is actually WORSE than Rod Graves' was after 8 years, and the Cards under Graves had gone to the Super Bowl!

I say this every offseason when people are ready to fire Keim for this or that forseeable atrocity: Keim is probably about league-average as a GM. You'd prefer to have someone who gives you a clear competitive advantage, but as long as he's not making big decisions, he's going to get you in the direction you want to go.

The problem is that after Arians left, there was no one to elevate the franchise. If you have one of a great QB, great HC, and great GM, you're going to be competitive (the Packers under Rodgers and McCarthy). If you have two, you're going to compete for a Super Bowl every year (Pats with Brady and Belicheck, Baltimore under Newsome and Harbaugh). Keim is just going to be the worst part of that triangle.
 

cheesebeef

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On another thread, I think Cheese did a comparison and Keim's record is actually WORSE than Rod Graves' was after 8 years, and the Cards under Graves had gone to the Super Bowl!

I say this every offseason when people are ready to fire Keim for this or that forseeable atrocity: Keim is probably about league-average as a GM. You'd prefer to have someone who gives you a clear competitive advantage, but as long as he's not making big decisions, he's going to get you in the direction you want to go.

The problem is that after Arians left, there was no one to elevate the franchise. If you have one of a great QB, great HC, and great GM, you're going to be competitive. If you have two, you're going to compete for a Super Bowl every year. Keim is just going to be the worst part of that triangle.

this (although, I didn't say Graves had a better record. Just that we more NFC East Titles, four times as many playoff wins and a Conference Title. My point was if we could achieve all of that with an awful GM, the mediocre GM who followed who's had less post-season success isn't irreplaceable like some were making it out to be).
 

football karma

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I think that the season turned on the loss to Miami, who turned out to be pretty good but Kyler got shown up by Tua, who turns out to maybe not be that good?

that started the stretch of making mediocre QBs look like all-pros:

Tua had his best game in that one
Jalen Hurts had his best game vs AZ
CJ Beathard had his best game vs AZ
Wofford (by default) had his best game

the Cards went 1-3 vs that group
 
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